FSW WORLDWIDE

[Deleted member 1006777]

Yes, there are programs but they only target specific candidates, typically based on NOC. Which is fair enough, but if it's so cool, then why are people panicking so much about C-19 and NOC draws? It just means a similar arrangement in the EE. If these are indeed so great of an opportunity, everyone, including FSW, will be soon able to enjoy the opportunity of being eligible for a program but not really.

Yeah like he said, this is pretty much the end for FSWs with NOCs outside of the in-demand ones. They even introduced NOCs for French now. The vast majority of FSWs will not qualify for FSW once the NOC specific stuff is implemented. Pretty decent way to funnel a few 100k per person to come study there.

 

[Ultraxion]

True, I was talking about economic immigration only. And not even the "invest 100K" entrepreneur stream, which I also assume it's not realistic for many.

entrepreneur stream is also part of economic class, PNP actually since there is no federal entrepreneur stream anymore.

FHS has the highest quota, ~110k followed by PNP, 93K, then by spousal sponsorship, 81K, for 2024

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/notices/supplementary-immigration-levels-2022-2024.html

 

[Deleted member 1006777]

Hiii guys ,
What do u think the next draw cut off score will be ?
532 should be fine or not?
I made some pessimistic calculations ...
Our ielts is about to expire in August

There's no way to know. If I were in your place, I'd wait two weeks and see what the score is. There's always a chance that there is a 1 month gap to accomodate for an FST draw which will shoot scores back up.

My gut says your score will get you an ITA the next draw, but regardless, what choice do you have except to wait? Who cares what the cut off will be? You'll find out in 2 or 4 weeks if you qualify. If not, you retake your IELTS.

And I'll be honest with you, any "pessimistic" calculations you made are far more likely to be closer to reality than whatever hopium nonsense the likes of Kubeir or Holthe will give you.

Edit: Idk why I'm hating on Holthe. He has been very honest and realistic with his expectations for a long time. There was the infamous muffin incident, but that was more a poor way of wording things. He was correct about what he said back then too, jsut that a lot of people got offended.

 

[SatNight]

We can cordially agree to disagree here. But one this is for certain. Even if they do only have EE to go through, they do have it easier to get high scores and qualify, but they don't. All I see from CECs on youtube and twitter is the equivalent of "Kubeir saar when will scores come down 400? I have been waiting for 17 days now it's so unfair". Whether you want to agree with me or not, things will continue to get easier for inland and tougher for outland. By 2024, I'm willing to bet the average FSW score will be above 500. That's just how competitive it is.

And you're right nothing is guaranteed, but they do have significantly more opportunities just from being inland. Whether they take advantage of those or not, whether they qualify or not, that's up to them.

Oh, I agree about that whining. It's uncalled for, especially for low CRS candidates who don't understand that more effort is needed. Especially young people. If you're under 30, you already have tons of points on age alone. Yes, true, that's my weak area, I admit, but we don't whine about it on YT, and it's not other people's fault that they are 25.

What you and I disagree about, it seems, is the significance of the existence of a program you don't qualify for. I am trying to tell you that it's meaningless. If you don't qualify you don't qualify. It does really matter if the reason you don't qualify is "outland" or "inland but wrong NOC". You don't qualify and that's it.

This is not to try to equate inland and outland experiences, or to make it seem like inland applicants have it harder (they don't. The only thing that is harder is the clock ticking on the work permit, which is not meaningless but let's forget that for now). What I am trying to say is that the advantages of being inland are very obvious (Canadian experience, additional points). I get why people get angry at CEC who whine while not trying to boost their score, but it's not like there are also ignoring al the other programs. In fact, the whining IS precisely because most CEC qualify only for EE so they can't use those other programs. They know it really well that this is the only one and this is why they whine for cutoff scores to go down to 470 (450? Whatever).

By the way, I don't really understand why FSW are believed to be the only ones with such high points. Is it work experience? Even so, CEC candidates are typically younger and get additional points for education in Canada and stuff like that, so I really don't understand why there is such a prevailing belief that only FSW can get high scores. We are currently pushing our score over 500 and we are older than a typical candidate. If we were younger, we'd be over 550 if not more, and all of that without any foreign work experience. Not saying that all CEC can do this (there are additional points for being a PhD, for example) but it does make me wonder how many points you guys get for work experience if can offset all the extra points CEC people get for being CEC.

 

[SatNight]

entrepreneur stream is also part of economic class, PNP actually since there is no federal entrepreneur stream anymore.

FHS has the highest quota, ~110k followed by PNP, 93K, then by spousal sponsorship, 81K, for 2024

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/notices/supplementary-immigration-levels-2022-2024.html

Yes, I know it's part of economic immigration. That's why I excluded it, because it's just not a reality for most.

 

[ElvisRamaj]

Hiii guys ,
What do u think the next draw cut off score will be ?
532 should be fine or not?
I made some pessimistic calculations ...
Our ielts is about to expire in August

You made no pessimistic assumption, no one could predict an increase of 1,100 candidates above 501+ points in two weeks, its impossible to comprehend.

The next draw will likely be 2,000 and hopefully is in the 529 - 533 range, unless there is another surprise of 1k of candidates added again. I think the majority of the ones who graduated were already added, now candidates who will make the cut are Canadian experience, French or LMIA.

July was beyond any possible prediction. Almost 20k candidates added in the pool, out of which 1,800 with 501+ score, WTF ?

 

[SatNight]

because a lot of ppl in this forum are outlanders and FSW is their only choice.

Exactly. That's what I'm trying to say: most PNPs are like C-19 already. Yeah, they exist. Yeah, people are invited through them. But for so many people (most people?) they might as well not even be there, because if you don't qualify, you don't qualify. So they don't mean much. Having 30 programs were you don't qualify are not a better situation.

 

[Deleted member 1006777]

"inland but wrong NOC"

The graduate streams are not NOC specific. Graduate from whatever province your university is in, you qualify for the graduate stream PNP, live in that province till you get your citizenship and then move. Don't like Ontario? Tough shit. It'll still be better than the country you're trying to immigrate from. Tough it out for a few years. Simple.

By the way, I don't really understand why FSW are believed to be the only ones with such high points.

I really don't understand why there is such a prevailing belief that only FSW can get high scores.

Because until they had combined draws, scores have historically gone up only. All the way from 2018 when 440 was considered a good score. When they restarted CEC draws, even after the megadraw that pulled out every CEC candidate, wen they resumed draws, the scores only went up to 460s, and went back down immediately. When they temporarily resumed FSW on the other hand, the scores went back up to high 470s or 480s.

It's not that only FSWs can get high scores, it's that on average it's FSW that do get high scores because they are more competitive. The average CEC (not you) spends more time content with their 400 score hoping for the system to help them out (which it usually does, and will continue to do so).

We are currently pushing our score over 500 and we are older than a typical candidate.

Good for you. I'm assuming you're CEC, and I can tell you that you're far ahead of the average CEC candidate. You are not the average CEC with your desire to push your scores. You may be older than the typical CEC candidate, but to be more precise you're better, just because you're trying to push your scores. I understand your desire to defend CECs becasue a lot of what I say sounds like a personal attack against you. It's not.

but it does make me wonder how many points you guys get for work experience if can offset all the extra points CEC people get for being CEC.

This alone tells me you're new to the immigration process. Go try out scenarios on their score calculators. I don't remember the exact scores anymore, but bachelors + 1year of exp for CEC is a higher score than a master's + 3 years of exp for FSW, assuming language age etc is kept the same. So if everything is done perfectly, a CEC can get a higher score FOUR YEARS sooner than an FSW. By definition it is easier for a CEC to compete in the same pool but they just choose not to.

Edit: Calculated scores for you.
CEC bachelor's + 1 year Canadian exp: 474
CEC bachelor's + 2 years: 499
CEC bachelor's + 3 years: 510

CEC master's + 1 yr: 501

(you get the point, every additional year of work exp gives extra points for CEC. This is NOT true for FSW)

FSW bachelor's + 1 year (foreign) work exp: 416
FSW bachelor's + 3 years (foreign) work exp: 441 <- No extra points for 2 years, only for 3.
FSW master's + 1 year: 456
FSW master's + 3 years: 481

It is very very clear that it is significantly harder to get equivalent scores as an FSW compared to CEC, yet scores are much lower when draws become CEC specific.

This assumes IELTS is maxed out. What this tells us is that CECs have on average much worse english, because a bachelor's and 1 year should give you a 474 just like that. But as we've seen that's not the average CEC score. The vast majority are below 450.

 

[SatNight]

Edit: Idk why I'm hating on Holthe. He has been very honest and realistic with his expectations for a long time. There was the infamous muffin incident, but that was more a poor way of wording things. He was correct about what he said back then too, jsut that a lot of people got offended.

I don't know about you, but I find Holthe irritating because he spends so much time advertising his services, and I also find him annoying as a person. But his info is generally solid and correct (except when trying to scare people into buying his courses).

 

[Ultraxion]

Exactly. That's what I'm trying to say: most PNPs are like C-19 already. Yeah, they exist. Yeah, people are invited through them. But for so many people (most people?) they might as well not even be there, because if you don't qualify, you don't qualify. So they don't mean much. Having 30 programs were you don't qualify are not a better situation.

thats exactly the point of being inland! if a pnp requires works experience in their province, go work there! if aipp requires you to study in one of the provinces, go study there! you see being inland you can fit yourself into one of the immigration programs, easily.

I am so fed up arguing with you. if you think ee is the only way, so be it.

 

[Deleted member 1006777]

I don't know about you, but I find Holthe irritating because he spends so much time advertising his services, and I also find him annoying as a person. But his info is generally solid and correct (except when trying to scare people into buying his courses).

Yeah at the end of the day, his business model involves giving generic information out for free (this is stuff that anyone should be able to find out on their own, but choose not to) and then divert people towards his paid consultations. Can't blame the guy for running a business. He is kinda lame and irritating, I agree.

 

[SatNight]

The graduate streams are not NOC specific. Graduate from whatever province your university is in, you qualify for the graduate stream PNP, live in that province till you get your citizenship and then move. Don't like Ontario? Tough shit. It'll still be better than the country you're trying to immigrate from. Tough it out for a few years. Simple.



Because until they had combined draws, scores have historically gone up only. All the way from 2018 when 440 was considered a good score. When they restarted CEC draws, even after the megadraw that pulled out every CEC candidate, wen they resumed draws, the scores only went up to 460s, and went back down immediately. When they temporarily resumed FSW on the other hand, the scores went back up to high 470s or 480s.

It's not that only FSWs can get high scores, it's that on average it's FSW that do get high scores because they are more competitive. The average CEC (not you) spends more time content with their 400 score hoping for the system to help them out (which it usually does, and will continue to do so).


Good for you. I'm assuming you're CEC, and I can tell you that you're far ahead of the average CEC candidate. You are not the average CEC with your desire to push your scores. You may be older than the typical CEC candidate, but to be more precise you're better, just because you're trying to push your scores. I understand your desire to defend CECs becasue a lot of what I say sounds like a personal attack against you. It's not.


This alone tells me you're new to the immigration process. Go try out scenarios on their score calculators. I don't remember the exact scores anymore, but bachelors + 1year of exp for CEC is a higher score than a master's + 3 years of exp for FSW, assuming language age etc is kept the same. So if everything is done perfectly, a CEC can get a higher score FOUR YEARS sooner than an FSW. By definition it is easier for a CEC to compete in the same pool but they just choose not to.

True, graduate streams are not NOC specific, but not all provinces have them, and some require you to have a valid job offer. Not everyone goes to school in Ontario.

Yes, we are CEC, but I am not specifically defending CEC candidates as much as airing my frustration at how limited this process is, while being told that it's super easy. Maybe we are doing it wrong. I don't know how people get in with 400 scores, or what kind of occupations. Maybe we should have become a truck driver instead (no disrespect to truck drivers, but I don't think just anyone can do it.)

Based on this calculation, there is no reason why FSW people get higher scores. I always assumed most of you have 10+ years of experience, which is probably true for many, but that also comes with older age and lack of Canadian points. So I agree that there is no excuse for CEC candidates.

I will be perfectly honest: we got this high in score thanks to French. Yes, education and and Canadian experience matter and do bring points, but it could not help offset our age. French did it. It's not my achievement;it's my wife. So I am not saying that I did it. But it's sure an option, and I know many people say it's difficult, but to be honest, it was still easier than finding a job that will give a proper job offer. Maybe the job offer is easier for some people. In any cases, I agree that there are options in that sense. But not necessarily in programs what target only a narrow group of people.

 

[Deleted member 1006777]

thats exactly the point of being inland! if a pnp requires works experience in their province, go work there! if aipp requires you to study in one of the provinces, go study there! you see being inland you can fit yourself into one of the immigration programs, easily.

I am so fed up arguing with you. if you think ee is the only way, so be it.

Yeah they seem to be missing the point that having those extra streams is literally the advantage. If they don't qualify for them, that's on them.

 

[Deleted member 1006777]

True, graduate streams are not NOC specific, but not all provinces have them, and some require you to have a valid job offer. Not everyone goes to school in Ontario.

Ontario was an example. As I have stated before, other provinces also have similar streams. If you didn't look into them when you started your degree, and cater your experience accordingly, that's on you.

Based on this calculation, there is no reason why FSW people get higher scores. I always assumed most of you have 10+ years of experience, which is probably true for many, but that also comes with older age and lack of Canadian points.

How is this to hard for you to understand? The average FSW profile now is a master's + 3 years of work exp which can be achieved by the age of 27. That gives a 2 year leeway if you have a gap. That's a score of 481. It is clear that they also have significantly better english scores.

The average CEC is content with a bachelor's and one year exp and much worse english. To give you an example, most universities, the lambda types, have an eglish requirement of a clb6. That's lower than my goddamn french ability. That's how these people circumvent the competition. Foreign degrees and experience with a clb6 will NEVER get an ITA. But CECs will.

Yes, CECs should have higher scores, but they don't. That is the point. Worse english, lazy, entitled. Begging for easier pathways. Meanwhile FSWs are desperate enough to retake IELTS several times, learn french etc. to keep their scores competitive.

ut it's sure an option, and I know many people say it's difficult, but to be honest, it was still easier than finding a job that will give a proper job offer.

I also got my score because of french, and I will disagree with people. All it took was consistency and time. It wasn't necessarily easy, but the process was simple. Anyone who says it's too difficult is making excuses. That's all there is to it.

Maybe we are doing it wrong. I don't know how people get in with 400 scores, or what kind of occupations.

You are doing something wrong I don't know what it is. It's not that people still get in with 400, it's that they did for the last two years. You're frustrated because you don't have it as easy as they did. Meanwhile any FSW would kill to be in your situation becasue it's that much harder for them to be competitive. It's not to say you, in your current situation have it easy. It's that you in your current situation still have it easier that FSWs. And to your credit, you're doing it right, trying to improve your scores etc.

You've experienced in the last 7 months what FSWs have experienced in an amplified manner for the last 31 months. Perspective.

 

[SatNight]

thats exactly the point of being inland! if a pnp requires works experience in their province, go work there! if aipp requires you to study in one of the provinces, go study there! you see being inland you can fit yourself into one of the immigration programs, easily.

I am so fed up arguing with you. if you think ee is the only way, so be it.

But what if you are already working in a different province? Have an education from a different province? Finding a skilled job in Canada is not easy enough so you can pick and choose based on their PNP. In fact, choosing a school or a province for its PNP is a horrible way to go, because what if a program changes by the time you graduate? (It happens often).

When my wife was starting her PhD, there was a federal PhD stream that they cut. That stuff happens all the time.

Seriously, arguing how it's easy to just jump where you want to become eligible for their PNP is not that realistic for many people. It's like telling a FSW "well, just go to Canada as a student and after graduation you will become inland". Are there people who are doing it? Yes. But it's not a proper advice, because it's not a solution to the current mess that exists with FSW.