US outland applicants' thread :)

[lunas]

Well, it seems lots of people feel that way these days. Those who think it should be illegal to own pea shooters and those who think it should be legal to own personal nuclear weapons, for example. It's a fine country.

http://renunciationguide.com/

I thought Canada didn't accept double citizenship US/Can? Is that true?

 

[Canuck20]

I thought Canada didn't accept double citizenship US/Can? Is that true?

Dual citizenship is not an issue in Canada to my understanding. I know quite a few people who have US/CAN dual citizenship.

 

[computergeek]

I thought Canada didn't accept double citizenship US/Can? Is that true?

There are lots of Canadian/US dual citizens, including at least one Premier - which surprised me because normally serving in political office in a foreign country is an "expatriating act" for a US Citizen. I can hear the attitude of many US folks though: "oh, it's just Canada, that doesn't count."

Like it or not, the two countries have intertwined customs, culture and heritage. There are differences, but there are equally large differences east to west in the countries. Canadian and US laws provide special rights for one another. The border between the two countries is the largest uncontrolled/unfortified border in the world and it wasn't that long ago you didn't need a passport to travel between the two, and I've been told that before I was born you could just move if you wanted, without the pain of immigration.

Even the rules about citizenship by descent are pretty much in synch with each other, yet out of keeping with the rest of the world (a child born in Canada or the US is generally always a Canadian or US Citizen but many countries don't extend citizenship simply because you were born within their country.)

At times it's like siblings arguing how different they are... LOL

 

[Canuck20]

There are actually places along the border in Vermont and Quebec where buildings in a town are partly in Canada and partly in the US. In fact there is place on the New Brunswick/Maine border where the golf course (Aroostock Valley Country Club) is partly in Canada and partly in the US.

 

[lunas]

Sweet! I know how much of a hassle it will be to do taxes every year but I think it would be even worse to give my citizenship up just because of that reason.

 

[Shylox]

I would definitely be way too much work to give up my US citizenship, I really don't agree with how that country is run either but I would still think the same way even if I didn't have my citizenship haha Plus, my mom and sister live there and if they were to ever get sick or anything I would need to go there for an extended period of time without the hassle of a border officer telling me I'm not allowed to.

Taxes aren't so much of an issue for me, it takes me 20 minutes max online and I'm done.

 

[parker24]

I would definitely be way too much work to give up my US citizenship, I really don't agree with how that country is run either but I would still think the same way even if I didn't have my citizenship haha Plus, my mom and sister live there and if they were to ever get sick or anything I would need to go there for an extended period of time without the hassle of a border officer telling me I'm not allowed to.

Taxes aren't so much of an issue for me, it takes me 20 minutes max online and I'm done.

I take it you file Married, Filing Separate? lol

 

[amikety]

My application is finally complete. My fingerprints finally came back and they failed notice I'm a supervillian with an army of minions. Phew!

Just need hubby to fill out his sponsor questionnaire, pay the fee, and get envelopes. Ended up with a lot more pictures than I realized!

We're going to the pay the fee tomorrow. Maybe get to mail it off tomorrow too. Woohoo!

 

[Shylox]

I take it you file Married, Filing Separate? lol

I can't even do that, I file as single, the Feds don't recognize same sex marriages so I was told to file as if I was single. It seemed odd to me that they don't care that I'm married but I never got in trouble for it so I'll just keep doing it.

 

[parker24]

I can't even do that, I file as single, the Feds don't recognize same sex marriages so I was told to file as if I was single. It seemed odd to me that they don't care that I'm married but I never got in trouble for it so I'll just keep doing it.

*shakes head* That's why I'll never understand the federal system in the USA

 

[Shylox]

*shakes head* That's why I'll never understand the federal system in the USA

I agree. Though I don't think we're meant to understand. haha

 

[computergeek]

I can't even do that, I file as single, the Feds don't recognize same sex marriages so I was told to file as if I was single. It seemed odd to me that they don't care that I'm married but I never got in trouble for it so I'll just keep doing it.

What's fun is when you get to the Canada/US tax treaty and they use the term "spouse" within it - whose definition, the Canadian one or the US one? If that isn't litigation fodder, I don't know what is.

Oddly enough, the US Supreme Court is hearing a Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) challenge under tax law (an extra ~$350k tax bill because they wouldn't recognize the same-sex marriage). It's even MORE complicated if you live in California - the IRS lost the case there, as California has "community property" rules and under long-standing case law, community property has always granted income splitting for any couple, including unmarried heterosexual couples. So even though the IRS does not recognize same-sex relationships, they DO recognize community property rules for same-sex relationships in those states with such rules. The same will now apply in Washington State as well, where same sex marriage was able to win at the ballot box. Community property rules have traditionally been a western US practice, while they are unusual in the eastern US.

But yes, you were told right - you file as single in the US - or Head of Household if you have children, even though you file married in Canada.

 

[Shylox]

What's fun is when you get to the Canada/US tax treaty and they use the term "spouse" within it - whose definition, the Canadian one or the US one? If that isn't litigation fodder, I don't know what is.

Oddly enough, the US Supreme Court is hearing a Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) challenge under tax law (an extra ~$350k tax bill because they wouldn't recognize the same-sex marriage). It's even MORE complicated if you live in California - the IRS lost the case there, as California has "community property" rules and under long-standing case law, community property has always granted income splitting for any couple, including unmarried heterosexual couples. So even though the IRS does not recognize same-sex relationships, they DO recognize community property rules for same-sex relationships in those states with such rules. The same will now apply in Washington State as well, where same sex marriage was able to win at the ballot box. Community property rules have traditionally been a western US practice, while they are unusual in the eastern US.

But yes, you were told right - you file as single in the US - or Head of Household if you have children, even though you file married in Canada.

Thank you so much for that info! As confusing as it might be, I'm glad that I've been doing this properly because I really don't want to piss off the IRS right before I'm about to leave the country haha

So say if my home state, PA, were to make same sex marriage legal, would that make me have to change the way I do my taxes? I'm assuming not since I'm not actually living there, right? Now that I just typed that out it seems like a dumb question but I might as well ask anyway haha

 

[computergeek]

So say if my home state, PA, were to make same sex marriage legal, would that make me have to change the way I do my taxes? I'm assuming not since I'm not actually living there, right? Now that I just typed that out it seems like a dumb question but I might as well ask anyway haha

That's the point of DOMA - it says that for purposes of US Federal law, only heterosexual marriage is recognized. Prior to that date, the US Government had always relied upon the states to define marriage. Under the US Constitution, however, marriages in one state were recognized in other states. The best example are anti-miscegenation laws that were on the books in a number of states until the 1960s when they were overturned by the US Supreme Court (Loving v Virginia). If a couple went to a liberal state (like California) and were married in that state and then moved to Virginia (where interracial marriage was illegal) the Commonwealth of Virginia was still required to recognize it.

Once you leave the US, your previous state of residence doesn't really matter much for tax purposes - you don't have to file a state return. But as a US Citizen you are obligated to declare your worldwide income every year and pay any tax due.

The attitude in the US Congress is that anyone who leaves the US must be doing so to defraud the government. That's why we now have FATCA and we must file FBARs and our foreign spouses must have 30% of the value of our life insurance proceeds withheld. Even our estates are taxed differently - any property jointly owned with one's spouse is counted as 100% owned by the US Citizen, for example. It's likely to get worse, because of course the best taxes are levied on a despised minority, such as those scofflaw tax cheats who fled the US...

 

[IvanP]

That's the point of DOMA - it says that for purposes of US Federal law, only heterosexual marriage is recognized. Prior to that date, the US Government had always relied upon the states to define marriage. Under the US Constitution, however, marriages in one state were recognized in other states. The best example are anti-miscegenation laws that were on the books in a number of states until the 1960s when they were overturned by the US Supreme Court (Loving v Virginia). If a couple went to a liberal state (like California) and were married in that state and then moved to Virginia (where interracial marriage was illegal) the Commonwealth of Virginia was still required to recognize it.

Once you leave the US, your previous state of residence doesn't really matter much for tax purposes - you don't have to file a state return. But as a US Citizen you are obligated to declare your worldwide income every year and pay any tax due.

The attitude in the US Congress is that anyone who leaves the US must be doing so to defraud the government. That's why we now have FATCA and we must file FBARs and our foreign spouses must have 30% of the value of our life insurance proceeds withheld. Even our estates are taxed differently - any property jointly owned with one's spouse is counted as 100% owned by the US Citizen, for example. It's likely to get worse, because of course the best taxes are levied on a despised minority, such as those scofflaw tax cheats who fled the US...

That's why I plan to die penniless and insane!