Procedure fairness work experience express entry

[hellovn]

Hi All,

I am helping my brother to apply for PR. He is applying under NS PNP skilled worker stream. We got the AOR in Oct 2020 and have not heard anything back until 2 weeks ago. The officer asked for an updated work experience letter as we found out that our original letter lost the logo and the company address when we reduced the pdf file size. Here is the new procedure fairness letter:

You may not meet the following condition: Minimum of one-year work experience in the employment declared – R87.1 of the Regulations.

We already sent the officer:

1. The original & updated work experience letter. We re-sent the work experience letter with the original company logo and address. The new also letter showed the start date and end date and I already moved to a new company.

2. All the updated T4s, NOAs, pay stubs, bank statements, hour-accumulated records, etc.

The officer sent a new procedure fairness letter today and claimed that he could not search for the companies. In addition, I got pay stubs from three different sub-company from the same owner. The officer also asked to prove the relationship between the three LTD. companies.

I searched my province's joint stock and all three LTD. companies are there and active so I am not sure what the officer's concerns are. I am writing a response to address all the officers' concerns but I felt like I got an unfair accessment from the officer. My questions are:

1. I got AOR in Oct 2020 and worked for the same company until Oct 2021.

2. My application was not processed until 2 weeks ago and now the officer is asking for something that was not normal (e.g., the relationship between the three LTD. from my previous employers). All my submitted documents are genuine and I have no problem having interviews or other ways to convince the officer.

3. Could I contact my MP to help with my PR application as I felt I was treated unfairly? The officer claimed they could not search for the company's names online (I am guessing they are searching using Google) instead of using each province registry joist stock which is very weird. The MP will know about companies' local markets and my brother was a chef for a restaurant chain.

4. What should I do if his application gets rejected but we have all the supporting documents?

Thanks,

 

[hellovn]

He also applied through the NS PNP stream and got approved. The province PNP program searched the company through our registry joist stock and found the company.

 

[scylla]

Hi All,

I am helping my brother to apply for PR. He is applying under NS PNP skilled worker stream. We got the AOR in Oct 2020 and have not heard anything back until 2 weeks ago. The officer asked for an updated work experience letter as we found out that our original letter lost the logo and the company address when we reduced the pdf file size. Here is the new procedure fairness letter:

You may not meet the following condition: Minimum of one-year work experience in the employment declared – R87.1 of the Regulations.

We already sent the officer:

1. The original & updated work experience letter. We re-sent the work experience letter with the original company logo and address. The new also letter showed the start date and end date and I already moved to a new company.

2. All the updated T4s, NOAs, pay stubs, bank statements, hour-accumulated records, etc.

The officer sent a new procedure fairness letter today and claimed that he could not search for the companies. In addition, I got pay stubs from three different sub-company from the same owner. The officer also asked to prove the relationship between the three LTD. companies.

I searched my province's joint stock and all three LTD. companies are there and active so I am not sure what the officer's concerns are. I am writing a response to address all the officers' concerns but I felt like I got an unfair accessment from the officer. My questions are:

1. I got AOR in Oct 2020 and worked for the same company until Oct 2021.

2. My application was not processed until 2 weeks ago and now the officer is asking for something that was not normal (e.g., the relationship between the three LTD. from my previous employers). All my submitted documents are genuine and I have no problem having interviews or other ways to convince the officer.

3. Could I contact my MP to help with my PR application as I felt I was treated unfairly? The officer claimed they could not search for the company's names online (I am guessing they are searching using Google) instead of using each province registry joist stock which is very weird. The MP will know about companies' local markets and my brother was a chef for a restaurant chain.

4. What should I do if his application gets rejected but we have all the supporting documents?

Thanks,

My two cents:

2. Officers are free to ask for whatever evidence they wish to complete processing of the application, this includes evidence that may be non-standard. We sometimes find that IRCC does a deeper dive in certain areas than the provinces. Interviews are rare. It's all about what documents you submit to address the officer's concerns. The fact the original letter was updated without a letter head and without the company's address may have created concerns and cause the application to go down this path.
3. MPs can't really interfere with applications or influence decisions. IMO there's no point reaching out to your MP and you should not rely on your MP for a solution. IMO your enegry is best spent responding to the second PFL with additional details / information. A PFL is an intent to deny the application so you want to provide as strong an answer as you can (regardless whether the officer should have been able to find the info themselves or not).
4. You would hire an immigration lawyer and appeal the decision.

 

[hellovn]

My two cents:

2. Officers are free to ask for whatever evidence they wish to complete processing of the application, this includes evidence that may be non-standard. We sometimes find that IRCC does a deeper dive in certain areas than the provinces. Interviews are rare. It's all about what documents you submit to address the officer's concerns. The fact the original letter was updated without a letter head and without the company's address may have created concerns and cause the application to go down this path.
3. MPs can't really interfere with applications or influence decisions. IMO there's no point reaching out to your MP and you should not rely on your MP for a solution. IMO your enegry is best spent responding to the second PFL with additional details / information. A PFL is an intent to deny the application so you want to provide as strong an answer as you can (regardless whether the officer should have been able to find the info themselves or not).
4. You would hire an immigration lawyer and appeal the decision.

Thank you. Here are the exact words in the procedure fairness letter: "We are unable to confirm employer through an open web search, in other words, employer could not be found."

The NS PNP officer could easily search for the company as they are using NS joint stock registry. The officer should have used the same tool instead of using Google. Anyway, we are trying to address the officer's concerns but looking for how to deal with the worst-case scenarios.

 

[thaipham]

Try to submit as many documents as possible. Imagine you want to buy a product and you can't even search for that company on Google, would you have concern about the quality of the product?

 

[scylla]

Thank you. Here are the exact words in the procedure fairness letter: "We are unable to confirm employer through an open web search, in other words, employer could not be found."

The NS PNP officer could easily search for the company as they are using NS joint stock registry. The officer should have used the same tool instead of using Google. Anyway, we are trying to address the officer's concerns but looking for how to deal with the worst-case scenarios.

You're making a few assumptions about what the officer did and didn't do and why they are asking these questions.

IMO there might be something different happening here. The NS joint stock registry proves a business is registered. IRCC may have been looking to confirm the company (or sub) is truly active and engaged in business. An open source search should have presumably returned results on the business and the officer may find it strange that it didn't. In other words, the officer may think it's odd the business doesn't have a web presence that could be easily found.

So it's possible the officer may have looked at the NS joint stock registry but then also conducted an open web search and then found it strange and concerning that the employer could not be found on the open search

Anyway, I don't know the ins and outs of your case. Just me guessing based on what I see.

 

[scylla]

Try to submit as many documents as possible. Imagine you want to buy a product and you can't even search for that company on Google, would you have concern about the quality of the product?

Exactly. I think this is the problem. Everyone has a web presence these days. Officer knows the company is registered. That's not what they are trying to confirm. They are concerned about the lack of a public / easy to find web presence.

 

[hellovn]

Exactly. I think this is the problem. Everyone has a web presence these days. Officer knows the company is registered. That's not what they are trying to confirm. They are concerned about the lack of a public / easy to find web presence.

We may be able to address most of concerns of the officer but there is one that is hard to address. The officer is asking to show the relationship between an LTD (name on the experience letter) and a popular restaurant chain. We already submitted the employer's new and original experience letter with the logo name and addresses. My brother can ask for proof of ownership from the LTD owner but my brother does not work for that restaurant anymore and I think it is private information from the owner. They are kind enough to provide a new experience with the start date and end date. We just have some photos when he worked there when he applied for the NS PNP program.

I believe it is a common practice when an LTD owns some restaurants. For example, Tim Hortons chain is a popular name that is owned by many different LTDs It will be hard for an employee to convince the owner to provide the proof of ownership

 

[hellovn]

Try to submit as many documents as possible. Imagine you want to buy a product and you can't even search for that company on Google, would you have concern about the quality of the product?

Agree. But I think there is a different scenario here. The restaurant chain is very popular (e.g., like Tim Hortons) with a lot of web presence. But each Tim Horton's is owned by a different company or multiple companies own multiple chains. My brother worked or collaborated with at least 5 restaurant locations. In my brother's T4 and experience letter, the owner is using the LTD names with the restaurant chain logo. The officer is searching for the LTD name with returning no web results and is asking us to show the relationship between the LTD and the restaurant chain (the experience letter already showed that). We can ask for proof of ownership from the employer but I think it will be hard for them to provide us with that.

 

[Taran D]

We may be able to address most of concerns of the officer but there is one that is hard to address. The officer is asking to show the relationship between an LTD (name on the experience letter) and a popular restaurant chain. We already submitted the employer's new and original experience letter with the logo name and addresses. My brother can ask for proof of ownership from the LTD owner but my brother does not work for that restaurant anymore and I think it is private information from the owner. They are kind enough to provide a new experience with the start date and end date. We just have some photos when he worked there when he applied for the NS PNP program.

I believe it is a common practice when an LTD owns some restaurants. For example, Tim Hortons chain is a popular name that is owned by many different LTDs It will be hard for an employee to convince the owner to provide the proof of ownership

Not sure but maybe anything issued by the head office regulating the resturant hiring him can help. In one instance the person working for a particular bussiness (called franchise) got the payslips and other docs issued from head office mentioning the address of franchise they were working for.

 

[hellovn]

Not sure but maybe anything issued by the head office regulating the resturant hiring him can help. In one instance the person working for a particular bussiness (called franchise) got the payslips and other docs issued from head office mentioning the address of franchise they were working for.

My brother francises are owned by independent companies. I am looking for a way to prove the company owns the francise. If he is still working there, he may ask for a ownership certification but the problem is he does not work there anymore...We have ordered all the companies information in our registry of joint stock and hopefully we could find some connection.

 

[Taran D]

My brother francises are owned by independent companies. I am looking for a way to prove the company owns the francise. If he is still working there, he may ask for a ownership certification but the problem is he does not work there anymore...We have ordered all the companies information in our registry of joint stock and hopefully we could find some connection.

Contact the independent company owning the franchise, discuss with them, most of the time they are able to figure a way out. They have the authority to issue docs even if an employee had left the company. Hope it helps.

 

[hellovn]

Contact the independent company owning the franchise, discuss with them, most of the time they are able to figure a way out. They have the authority to issue docs even if an employee had left the company. Hope it helps.

We talked to the Registry of Joint Stock and asked if they have any information about the relationship between the two entities, they told us "no" but they suggest we call another department that issues the food licensing. I called this department and one officer confirmed that there is an active food licensing permit with the company names on it. I think this should be ok.

My brother's work permit already expired and we are waiting for the BOWP and this PR application. We will mention this to the officer as COVID has greatly affected my brother's life. If we have a chance to respond to the procedural fairness letter or if his application is rejected a year ago, he still has a lot of time to prepare for another application. If he has a chance to respond before moving to a new job, we could also submit work schedule, photos, videos, and etc...

If his PR application is rejected, he will have to quit his dream job that it took him 2 years after graduation to find . He may have to leave Canada too. Our parents just got their PR and they are living with us now.

We plan to apply for reconsideration and judicial review while he prepares for his new PR application if his application is rejected. I think he has a good chance to for a judicial review as we have submitted everything we can: a record of employment, reference letters (there was a mistake at first but we submitted both correct letters later), T4, bank statements, NOA...I don't think we could do anything more.

 

[Taran D]

We talked to the Registry of Joint Stock and asked if they have any information about the relationship between the two entities, they told us "no" but they suggest we call another department that issues the food licensing. I called this department and one officer confirmed that there is an active food licensing permit with the company names on it. I think this should be ok.

My brother's work permit already expired and we are waiting for the BOWP and this PR application. We will mention this to the officer as COVID has greatly affected my brother's life. If we have a chance to respond to the procedural fairness letter or if his application is rejected a year ago, he still has a lot of time to prepare for another application. If he has a chance to respond before moving to a new job, we could also submit work schedule, photos, videos, and etc...

If his PR application is rejected, he will have to quit his dream job that it took him 2 years after graduation to find . He may have to leave Canada too. Our parents just got their PR and they are living with us now.

We plan to apply for reconsideration and judicial review while he prepares for his new PR application if his application is rejected. I think he has a good chance to for a judicial review as we have submitted everything we can: a record of employment, reference letters (there was a mistake at first but we submitted both correct letters later), T4, bank statements, NOA...I don't think we could do anything more.

Don't lose hope, hard work is never wasted though sometimes takes a while to answer your prayers. I think he will get his PR soon.

 

[hellovn]

Don't lose hope, hard work is never wasted though sometimes takes a while to answer your prayers. I think he will get his PR soon.

Thanks Taran. Another question: I am trying to answer why the company had a residential address for the mailing address before but I could not find an easy answer that would not make the officer not happy.

We already ordered the registry of joint stock document online when the address change happened and I plan to mention that we have no experience in this area but when doing some research online, it is not uncommon to use a residential address for an LTD company and put this link for further information:

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/siTe/cd-dgc.nsf/eng/cs07025.html