Lost PR Card without Residency Obligations - Complicated Case

[aaroniclee]

Hey,

So in less than 2 weeks, I have to travel to India to attend my sister's wedding. The flight has been paid for and all the arrangements have been made. But two weeks ago, I lost my PR card (fell out of my wallet, reported to the police, no response unfortunately). Now I absolutely need to fly to attend the wedding, but I don't have a PR card on me.

I received my PR card in 2010 when I did the landing with my family (I was still a minor then), and then I moved here last year in August. As such, I don't have the 730 days required to renew a PR card. When I submitted my application to replace my lost card, it was returned and was considered incomplete, as I didn't fill out the section stating if I was out of the country with a Canadian member.

I understand that I still need to meet the residency obligations if I apply for a Permanent Resident Travel Document (PRTD) from India, but I don't have those days. Is it possible for me to obtain a travel document in India, so i'm able to return to Canada? Is there any other solution to this? My PR card is supposed to expire on May 2015.

Thanks for any help.

 

[zardoz]

Hey,

So in less than 2 weeks, I have to travel to India to attend my sister's wedding. The flight has been paid for and all the arrangements have been made. But two weeks ago, I lost my PR card (fell out of my wallet, reported to the police, no response unfortunately). Now I absolutely need to fly to attend the wedding, but I don't have a PR card on me.

I received my PR card in 2010 when I did the landing with my family (I was still a minor then), and then I moved here last year in August. As such, I don't have the 730 days required to renew a PR card. When I submitted my application to replace my lost card, it was returned and was considered incomplete, as I didn't fill out the section stating if I was out of the country with a Canadian member.

I understand that I still need to meet the residency obligations if I apply for a Permanent Resident Travel Document (PRTD) from India, but I don't have those days. Is it possible for me to obtain a travel document in India, so i'm able to return to Canada? Is there any other solution to this? My PR card is supposed to expire on May 2015.

Thanks for any help.

If you don't have enough days to meet the residency obligation requirements, applying for a PRTD is pretty much going to result in your PR status being revoked. You might wish to rethink your plan to leave Canada...

 

[aaroniclee]

That's really unfortunate news but thanks for the information. I am currently 22 years old, which means for a certain amount of time, I was considered a minor during the whole process. Would that help my case? I am also one semester away from graduating in college here in Toronto, would they let me come back to complete my education?

 

[zardoz]

That's really unfortunate news but thanks for the information. I am currently 22 years old, which means for a certain amount of time, I was considered a minor during the whole process. Would that help my case? I am also one semester away from graduating in college here in Toronto, would they let me come back to complete my education?

I don't think that will help. You are back in Canada now, so you no longer have the "returning to Canada at the first opportunity" get out. You are making a personal decision, whereas when you are a minor, you are not able to exercise that choice. The problem for you is that you are forcing the CHC to make a residency assessment when you apply for a PRTD. They don't have the same ability to give you a break as a border services officer at the airport.

 

[Rob_TO]

That's really unfortunate news but thanks for the information. I am currently 22 years old, which means for a certain amount of time, I was considered a minor during the whole process. Would that help my case? I am also one semester away from graduating in college here in Toronto, would they let me come back to complete my education?

Being a minor when you landed may help your case when it comes to not meeting RO, but there is no way to know for sure. Pretty much the only way to find out is to actually apply for the PRTD and see what happens. There is no guarantee it will be granted based on you being a minor for part of the time you didn't meet RO. Since you are 22 now, you've been of legal age now for 3-4 years yet chose not to go to Canada during that time. Also you being in school in Canada will have no bearing on the situation. So it's really anyone's guess what would happen, but in my own opinion I think having your PR card revoked if you apply for PRTD is a very strong possibility.

Another option you may want to consider is to fly back to a city in USA close to the border, then drive across to Canada. In this case no PRTD or PR card is needed, you would just need a US visa. Of course you then run the risk of being reported by CBSA for not meeting RO when crossing the land border, but it seems like many people also get through without being reported.

Of course the only sure option is simply not to go, remain in Canada till you meet the RO, then apply to renew your card.

 

[aaroniclee]

Another option you may want to consider is to fly back to a city in USA close to the border, then drive across to Canada. In this case no PRTD or PR card is needed, you would just need a US visa. Of course you then run the risk of being reported by CBSA for not meeting RO when crossing the land border, but it seems like many people also get through without being reported.

I've heard about the option of returning by road via Buffalo/Niagara Falls. What documents would I need to show then? My Canadian visa which was stamped on my passport upon arrival is on my old passport (which I possess). Also, am I still able to enter Canada by road despite not meeting the residency obligations?

 

[zardoz]

I've heard about the option of returning by road via Buffalo/Niagara Falls. What documents would I need to show then? My Canadian visa which was stamped on my passport upon arrival is on my old passport (which I possess). Also, am I still able to enter Canada by road despite not meeting the residency obligations?

You would ideally need your COPR document as well as your passport. However, the point remains, if you leave Canada, while not meeting the RO, you run a finite risk of being reported and eventually losing your PR status. Your only safe option is not to travel until a) you meet the RO and b) replace your PR card.

 

[aaroniclee]

Alright thanks for the info! My COPR is on my old passport (which I have on me); would I still be able to use it to cross the border in a private vehicle?

 

[scylla]

Alright thanks for the info! My COPR is on my old passport (which I have on me); would I still be able to use it to cross the border in a private vehicle?

You can certainly try. Do you have a valid US visitor visa?

 

[aaroniclee]

I do. I have a 10-year US visa, obtained in 2012. My only concern is that I'd be presenting two passports, one current and one old with COPR. I'm not sure if the COPR is valid in an old passport.

 

[Rob_TO]

The COPR does not need to go inside any passport, as it's an individual document that you are supposed to keep your entire life. You should take it out of the old passport completely. Don't know why it was put in your passport to begin with.

No matter what you will still face the risk of being reported for not meeting RO when you cross the border back into Canada. There is no way at all to guarantee this won't happen.

 

[dpenabill]

I concur in much of what has already been offered, but will add that there are multiple aspects of your situation likely increasing the risk of losing PR status.

Highest risk for negative decision in PR residency breach cases is in the PR Travel Document application process. It is not guaranteed you will be denied, but the risk is very high.

Thus, but for the possibility of returning to Canada via a land crossing from the U.S., the decision really comes down to what is more important, making this trip or retaining PR status. It pretty well comes down to choosing one or the other.

Even the possibility of returning to Canada via a land crossing probably does not increase your chances much. Remember, these things never happen in isolation, are never decided in the abstract, but are dependent on the entire situation, all the relevant circumstances. How this goes will depend on your particular circumstances.

One looming relevant circumstance: you have already alerted CIC to a residency issue in your case by making the application for a replacement PR card. I am not certain, but I think the odds are high your client number will bring up a flag at the POE when you attempt to return to Canada (might not have if you still had a valid PR card, but without the PR card you will most likely be referred to secondary and in secondary the examining officer is likely to run a query in the system which will trigger a hit for the PR card replacement application returned due to insufficient documentation of compliance with the residency obligation).

Given your youth, the reason for the trip, assuming the trip is quite short, and the fact that you are still within the first five years since landing, and have been living in Canada for over a year recently, you may be able to persuade the officer at the POE you should be allowed the opportunity to maintain your PR status. Very difficult to call the odds on this.

My sense, though, is that the odds are still against you enough that the real decision for you to make is whether going on the trip is more important than remaining a PR in Canada. If the trip is more important, go, attempt to return to Canada via the U.S., and maybe you will get lucky. But if keeping PR status is important to you, that would be a bad bet to make.

 

[meyakanor]

I concur in much of what has already been offered, but will add that there are multiple aspects of your situation likely increasing the risk of losing PR status.

Highest risk for negative decision in PR residency breach cases is in the PR Travel Document application process. It is not guaranteed you will be denied, but the risk is very high.

Thus, but for the possibility of returning to Canada via a land crossing from the U.S., the decision really comes down to what is more important, making this trip or retaining PR status. It pretty well comes down to choosing one or the other.

Even the possibility of returning to Canada via a land crossing probably does not increase your chances much. Remember, these things never happen in isolation, are never decided in the abstract, but are dependent on the entire situation, all the relevant circumstances. How this goes will depend on your particular circumstances.

One looming relevant circumstance: you have already alerted CIC to a residency issue in your case by making the application for a replacement PR card. I am not certain, but I think the odds are high your client number will bring up a flag at the POE when you attempt to return to Canada (might not have if you still had a valid PR card, but without the PR card you will most likely be referred to secondary and in secondary the examining officer is likely to run a query in the system which will trigger a hit for the PR card replacement application returned due to insufficient documentation of compliance with the residency obligation).

Given your youth, the reason for the trip, assuming the trip is quite short, and the fact that you are still within the first five years since landing, and have been living in Canada for over a year recently, you may be able to persuade the officer at the POE you should be allowed the opportunity to maintain your PR status. Very difficult to call the odds on this.

My sense, though, is that the odds are still against you enough that the real decision for you to make is whether going on the trip is more important than remaining a PR in Canada. If the trip is more important, go, attempt to return to Canada via the U.S., and maybe you will get lucky. But if keeping PR status is important to you, that would be a bad bet to make.

You have a very good point. A foreign national who shows up at a port of entry without a valid PR card is presumed not to be a PR, so they will definitely scrutinize the OP a bit more closely if he just shows up at the border without a valid PR card. I'm pretty sure it should go without saying that they will start probing into his residency obligations as well.

aaroniclee, you pretty much have to choose between keeping your PR status or attending your sister's wedding. Family is important, I understand, which makes it a very tough decision to make. But keep this in mind, even if your sister cares so much about you, she won't be able to help you regain your PR status (should you lose it). And as everybody else is saying here, chances are pretty high that you will be reported at the port of entry for not meeting RO, and you won't have strong enough arguments for them to let you keep your status.

In the end, it pretty much boils down to choosing between attending your sister's wedding, or keeping your PR status (it's literally one or the other). The choice is yours.

 

[aaroniclee]

Great points from everyone. Thank you all for the advice. After thinking long and hard about it, looks like I will have to miss my sister's wedding. It truly is unfortunate and of very bad luck, but maintaining my residency in Canada is a priority over a family function. Again, thank you all for the help. Greatly appreciated.

 

[HHH2000]

Great points from everyone. Thank you all for the advice. After thinking long and hard about it, looks like I will have to miss my sister's wedding. It truly is unfortunate and of very bad luck, but maintaining my residency in Canada is a priority over a family function. Again, thank you all for the help. Greatly appreciated.

Just enjoy everything on Skype, ask any of your sibling to arrange a Laptop on the Wedding floor, you can meet and greet everyone there. We just recently did on my Sister-in law wedding, my wife PR card renewal was in process so she decided not to take any Risk, on the top we send a wonderful gifts to our Sister in law due to ticket saving of Cad 5300, with that money we send gift to whole family.

Believe we enjoyed a lot and it was almost we attended the whole wedding.