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Intent to reside with C-6

munter

Full Member
Apr 12, 2014
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Hi,

I have read a lot of threads here with people who have suffered anxiety because it seems their motives for citizenship or the likelihood of them building their permanent future in Canada were called into question.

With the advent of C-6 and the removal of intent to reside, will these questions still be asked and are they relevant?

I am considering applying for citizenship, I have lived and worked in canada full time for six years. I am thinking that I might work in the US for 4 or 5 years now. I will satisfy all the criteria to apply for Canadian citizenship and can prove it without any ambiguity or doubt.
So if in an interview I am asked if I intend to reside or why I left, I intend to say that I dont know, I will see what opportunities present themselves in whatever country they are in and I left because I am curious and saw an opportunity elsewhere.

I am led to believe that the response would reduce the likelihood of success and certainly increase the chance of delay for my application.

I want to know why?
Surely the job of an immigration agent is to completely and to only ensure enforcement of current immigration law. Why would irrelevant information come into play? The way I see it, it cannot, otherwise the whole system deteriorates due to individuals prejudice and bias that has no basis in the law they are protecting. It is my belief, that if the system is good, I should respond as above as if I don't then I can be rightfully blocked for withholding the truth or lying to an officer which I think is unlawful.

I do feel nervous about it of course, I think the rational course is to hire a representative to lower the risk but I honestly don't see how asking about intent to reside or to query time spent abroad is relevant if one satisfies all of the application criteria.

I mean what's next? "you didn't smile at me or laugh at my bad joke, delayed 10 months!", it doesn't make sense to me, they are professionals, in fact if anything they might use those tactics to encourage you to get nervous or catch yourself in a lie, then you really are in trouble.

Is this totally naive?
Thoughts?
 

itsmyid

Champion Member
Jul 26, 2012
2,250
649
Hi,

I have read a lot of threads here with people who have suffered anxiety because it seems their motives for citizenship or the likelihood of them building their permanent future in Canada were called into question.

With the advent of C-6 and the removal of intent to reside, will these questions still be asked and are they relevant?

I am considering applying for citizenship, I have lived and worked in canada full time for six years. I am thinking that I might work in the US for 4 or 5 years now. I will satisfy all the criteria to apply for Canadian citizenship and can prove it without any ambiguity or doubt.
So if in an interview I am asked if I intend to reside or why I left, I intend to say that I dont know, I will see what opportunities present themselves in whatever country they are in and I left because I am curious and saw an opportunity elsewhere.

I am led to believe that the response would reduce the likelihood of success and certainly increase the chance of delay for my application.

I want to know why?
Surely the job of an immigration agent is to completely and to only ensure enforcement of current immigration law. Why would irrelevant information come into play? The way I see it, it cannot, otherwise the whole system deteriorates due to individuals prejudice and bias that has no basis in the law they are protecting. It is my belief, that if the system is good, I should respond as above as if I don't then I can be rightfully blocked for withholding the truth or lying to an officer which I think is unlawful.

I do feel nervous about it of course, I think the rational course is to hire a representative to lower the risk but I honestly don't see how asking about intent to reside or to query time spent abroad is relevant if one satisfies all of the application criteria.

I mean what's next? "you didn't smile at me or laugh at my bad joke, delayed 10 months!", it doesn't make sense to me, they are professionals, in fact if anything they might use those tactics to encourage you to get nervous or catch yourself in a lie, then you really are in trouble.

Is this totally naive?
Thoughts?
The more you overthink this, the more nervous you will get, and the more suspicion you will raise ... no need to worry yourself over this
 

_MK_

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I do not think they will ask if you intend to live in Canada or not anymore. It would likely be more along the lines of "where do you work/what do you do?". At this point in time, if you are employed in Canada, you have no obligation to say you are exploring opportunities abroad. There is no need to offer this information that might or might not be true. And saying you are open to opportunities anywhere just like every other Canadian has the right to should not affect your application.
If you are already working and living in the US at the time of this question/interview, you have to tell them truthfully that currently and for the foreseeable future you are not going to be in Canada. This would prompt the officer to double check/triple check if you have really fulfilled all the conditions required and whether your PR status is good or not. This is what potentially makes your application go non-routine/take longer. However, if all the conditions are met as you say, you are not going to lose PR status within the next couple years even you are not in Canada while your application is in process and you are in no hurry to get your citizenship, you should be fine.
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
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Some IRCC agents will not see your residence abroad during the processing period as "irrelevant." It may now be legally irrelevant, but some will see it as factually relevant and submit your application to closer scrutiny and even the dreaded non-routine processing. Why? That's hard to say in any individual case, but perhaps there is the sense that a person who does not appear to have future residential intentions towards Canada, might be more likely to have fudged their physical presence declarations. You tell me if that makes sense.
 

HamiltonApplicant

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Hi,

I have read a lot of threads here with people who have suffered anxiety because it seems their motives for citizenship or the likelihood of them building their permanent future in Canada were called into question.

With the advent of C-6 and the removal of intent to reside, will these questions still be asked and are they relevant?

I am considering applying for citizenship, I have lived and worked in canada full time for six years. I am thinking that I might work in the US for 4 or 5 years now. I will satisfy all the criteria to apply for Canadian citizenship and can prove it without any ambiguity or doubt.
So if in an interview I am asked if I intend to reside or why I left, I intend to say that I dont know, I will see what opportunities present themselves in whatever country they are in and I left because I am curious and saw an opportunity elsewhere.

I am led to believe that the response would reduce the likelihood of success and certainly increase the chance of delay for my application.

I want to know why?
Surely the job of an immigration agent is to completely and to only ensure enforcement of current immigration law. Why would irrelevant information come into play? The way I see it, it cannot, otherwise the whole system deteriorates due to individuals prejudice and bias that has no basis in the law they are protecting. It is my belief, that if the system is good, I should respond as above as if I don't then I can be rightfully blocked for withholding the truth or lying to an officer which I think is unlawful.

I do feel nervous about it of course, I think the rational course is to hire a representative to lower the risk but I honestly don't see how asking about intent to reside or to query time spent abroad is relevant if one satisfies all of the application criteria.

I mean what's next? "you didn't smile at me or laugh at my bad joke, delayed 10 months!", it doesn't make sense to me, they are professionals, in fact if anything they might use those tactics to encourage you to get nervous or catch yourself in a lie, then you really are in trouble.

Is this totally naive?
Thoughts?
My legal understanding from a Canadian standpoint: if you have a standing offer from US(Or from any other country) which you accepted, constitutes an intent to reside outside Canada. From US standpoint, anything less than a Green Card is temporary residence permit. I believe, therefore, you have no intention of residing outside Canada! I am not a lawyer, but I hope this legal definition helps you relax a bit...

Hiring a representative does not reduce the risk in the beginning,you need to do that only if your application becomes non-routine falls through the cracks of the system...
 

munter

Full Member
Apr 12, 2014
29
14
My legal understanding from a Canadian standpoint: if you have a standing offer from US(Or from any other country) which you accepted, constitutes an intent to reside outside Canada. From US standpoint, anything less than a Green Card is temporary residence permit. I believe, therefore, you have no intention of residing outside Canada! I am not a lawyer, but I hope this legal definition helps you relax a bit...

Hiring a representative does not reduce the risk in the beginning,you need to do that only if your application becomes non-routine falls through the cracks of the system...
This would help me relax, if I didn't have a green card(lol!) but again an intent to reside outside Canada is not a breach of any of the criteria.
And that is not to say that I wont reside in Canada in 5, 10, 20 years

If it was RQ'd for more than three years then I guess I would be forced to reside in Canada for a year(which might affect my career at the time) or give up.

I continue to be employed by a canadian company which I own and pay taxes there
 

HamiltonApplicant

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This would help me relax, if I didn't have a green card(lol!) but again an intent to reside outside Canada is not a breach of any of the criteria.
And that is not to say that I wont reside in Canada in 5, 10, 20 years

If it was RQ'd for more than three years then I guess I would be forced to reside in Canada for a year(which might affect my career at the time) or give up.

I continue to be employed by a canadian company which I own and pay taxes there
One other forum thread recently claimed that a temporary job offer from Europe actually expedited the citizenship application, a claim disputed by many others though. From your first post, I guess you have enough Canadian residency, so go ahead and apply at the earliest before you actually get a US job offer.... that again for your peace of mind! You are, as of today, do not breach any criterion in my opinion...
 
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dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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The subject here really is not about where an applicant intends to reside. There is NO intent-to-reside-in-Canada requirement. Intent is NOT an issue.

Living abroad before taking the oath, however, at the very least risks some problems, ranging from non-routine processing to potentially full blown RQ, and all the delays and inconvenience that process entails. In addition, there are inherent logistical difficulties facing the applicant living abroad (not the least of which is being able to timely obtain and act on short-notice to attend an event, especially the oath since failure to show for the oath is a sufficient basis for closing the application, no citizenship granted).

That said, living abroad while the application is in process is NOT disqualifying.

Nonetheless, and contrary to protests otherwise, there are legitimate reasons why such applicants are more likely to encounter elevated scrutiny and non-routine processing, and perhaps having their qualifications challenged.

Which leads to this:

I will satisfy all the criteria to apply for Canadian citizenship and can prove it without any ambiguity or doubt.
Many seem to overlook the huge, huge difference between being able to prove meeting the requirements for citizenship, versus having to actually prove meeting the requirements.

Make no mistake: the vast, vast majority of applicants will want to avoid, as best they can, having to actually prove their qualification for citizenship.

On the other hand, being able to prove meeting the qualifications is an important consideration in determining when it is time to apply for citizenship. It would be risky to apply unless one can in fact prove it. All applicants need to be able to prove their qualification for citizenship.

Prepare for the worst. Hope for the best. And in regards to applying for citizenship, make an effort to submit an application more likely to sail smoothly through.

In any event, beyond the procedural, logistical hassle and time it takes to prove one's case, not to mention the profound intrusion into one's privacy that would involve, actually proving it is not so easy as most might think. Many if not most take for granted the presumptions and inferences that work in the routine applicant's favour. The presence calculator, for example, explicitly works on the premise that all days in-between an applicant's reported date of entry into Canada, and next reported date of exit, are days present in Canada. If IRCC perceives a reason to question the applicant's actual presence, that premise carries far less weight, and even to that lessened extent only if there is direct evidence of presence in-between those dates.

Proving presence for all the days in-between days for which the applicant can submit overt, objective, direct documentation showing presence, can be more or less daunting depending on the nature and scope of IRCC's concerns and doubts and challenges.


I honestly don't see how asking about intent to reside or to query time spent abroad is relevant if one satisfies all of the application criteria.

I mean what's next? "you didn't smile at me or laugh at my bad joke, delayed 10 months!", it doesn't make sense to me, they are professionals, in fact if anything they might use those tactics to encourage you to get nervous or catch yourself in a lie, then you really are in trouble.
This demands some breaking down. There is no equivalency between the non-relevance of intent to reside versus the relevance of querying time spent abroad while the application is in process.

(Obviously, querying about time spent abroad during the previous 5 or 6 years (depending on when the application is made) is directly relevant, and material, and a part of the calculation of total presence in Canada.)


So, let's clear the table of this part:

"I honestly don't see how asking about intent to reside . . . is relevant if one satisfies all of the application criteria."

As noted before, the issue is not about intent, not about some future plans. There is NO intent-to-reside-in-Canada requirement. Officially, legally, it is as if there never was an intent-to-reside requirement. Practically there is minimal indication the previous intent-to-reside-in-Canada requirement was much enforced, even when it was a statutory requirement, beyond the applicant having to affirm such intent in the application form itself.

It would be easy to slip further into the weeds about the possibility, a rather remote possibility, that an interviewer could ask about the applicant's future plans, about the applicant's intentions vis-à-vis living abroad or in Canada, but that would be a less-than-helpful distraction. Such questions could be asked, sure, but expressing an intent to reside abroad cannot and will not be a basis for denying a grant of citizenship to someone otherwise qualified.

If there is a problem, there will be other reasons for the problem.



The real crux of the query:

"I honestly don't see how . . . [a query about] time spent abroad is relevant if one satisfies all of the application criteria."

A little word looms very, very large here. "IF!" If the applicant is qualified.

Frankly, perhaps it is indeed a bit naïve to just assume that IRCC knows the applicant meets the qualifications because the applicant knows he or she met the qualifications. That is not how it works.

Turn it around. If IRCC has determined (concluded) the applicant met all the requirements for citizenship, is the time spent abroad (while the application is pending) relevant?"

No. It is not. Easy answer. Living abroad while the application is pending does NOT disqualify the applicant.

But in the meantime, if the applicant is living abroad while the application is pending (if the applicant is employed abroad, if the applicant has business abroad), it is reasonable for IRCC to make inquiries into the accuracy of the applicant's claims about meeting the requirements.

That is, it is not so much about the time spent abroad itself, but rather that living abroad (actually any continuing strong residential or employment ties abroad) is a reason for IRCC to at least make further inquiries to make sure the applicant's claims about time in Canada are verified.



Citizenship application processing is NOT a gotcha-game. With some exceptions (as to be expected), IRCC interviewers and officers are ordinarily professional and straight-forward with clients. There are no more than rare reports of even discourteous let alone abusive interviewers. The vast, vast majority of reports describe the interview as a perfunctory fact-focused exchange.

But sure, if the interviewer perceives the applicant is not living in Canada, some elevated scrutiny should be anticipated.



I mean what's next? "you didn't smile at me or laugh at my bad joke, delayed 10 months!"
Make no mistake, an individual's demeanor, including body language and facial expressions, inflections in voice, even the timing of responses, are always a factor in just about any person-to-person interview (from job interviews to CBSA PoE examinations, and IRCC interviews). There are legitimate reasons why there is a preference for in-person interviews, and why fair procedure ordinarily requires formal decisions be made by the same person who conducted the hearing, even though a transcript would sufficiently reveal the content of all questions and answers.

Of course this is not at all about punitive measures for failing to smile or laugh. It is about assessing intangible factors, screening applicants for signs of disingenuousness or outright deception, evasiveness or manipulation. It can be as simple as discerning how comfortable and familiar the individual is with recounting facts related to information in the application.

It is about discerning whether there may be a reason to probe more thoroughly, to perhaps issue RQ and require the applicant to actually prove he or she did indeed meet the requirements for citizenship.


Overall:

The range of what is relevant is wide, wide, wide. After all, any information which will bear on the applicant's credibility is relevant.

How this or that is relevant, what it means relative to assessing qualifications, varies widely. There is a difference, for example, between what is part of the calculation of days present, and what is relevant for the purpose of evaluating the credibility of the applicant's declarations as to dates present and absent.

Indications of living abroad while the application is pending has been, in the past (going back at least a decade prior to the implementation of an intent to reside requirement), an explicit risk indicator or reason-to-question-presence.

Thus, apart from and in addition to the logistical difficulties inherently facing the applicant who is living abroad while the application is pending, such an applicant should be aware that this is indeed a circumstance quite likely to trigger elevated scrutiny, potentially full blown RQ, and all the hassles and delay that includes.

That's IRCC's job. To screen citizenship applicants. To verify the facts. To put the applicant to the test, to the need to prove qualification if there is any reason to question the applicant's claims.

And if and when it comes to RQ, being able to prove presence is one thing. Actually proving it is quite another.
 
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scylla

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I agree with dpenabill. Living abroad while applying has always created risks for the application - even before intent to reside. This can cause CIC to scrutinize the application a lot more closely. In the old days (but really not that long ago), this is what could often push people into the 2+ year processing time for citizenship.
 

spiritsoul

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I agree with dpenabill. Living abroad while applying has always created risks for the application - even before intent to reside. This can cause CIC to scrutinize the application a lot more closely. In the old days (but really not that long ago), this is what could often push people into the 2+ year processing time for citizenship.
+1
 

HamiltonApplicant

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Looks like the munter has met his residency requirements and is in a position to apply for citizen. However, he fears he might be in the US in the future and his sojourn there will clash with his test interview; with a possibility of an RQ. My practical tips for him:
  • Prepare the physical presence calculation very carefully, even providing very detailed reasons for the absences, cities visited, etc
  • Start collecting all the supporting documents, such as: utility bills, rental/mortgage payments, school transcripts in case of children, etc
 

justinline

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Any insight into my situation is welcomed. Frankly speaking I dont want to move to US as of now.... unfortunately due to current project requirements I will have to start traveling to US Monday to Friday. I tried hard to get out of it, but I dont want to loose the current client......its a long term project. Client will do the visa and I will be full time employee in US payroll.

I would have already completed the 3 years requirement when C6 3/5 rule comes into effect. I would have waited for project to end before applying for citizenship.....this project can go on for 2-3 years. So I foresee Mon-Friday travel to US for next 2-3 years......could be longer. So I am planning not to wait and apply when the 3/5 rule come into effect. I will have to start traveling starting Jan 2018, by that time I would have completed over 3.5 years in Canada.

Technically speaking the intention reside clause is gone....but how does CIC view such partial residency arrangement. Anyone who can speak from past experience.

Thanks,
Justin
 

scylla

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Technically speaking the intention reside clause is gone....but how does CIC view such partial residency arrangement. Anyone who can speak from past experience.
The removal of intent to reside doesn't change anything. Frequent travel out of the country or working outside of the country can still create problems and you should expect there's a good chance you'll receive RQ which will prolong the citizenship process. My husband is American and applied for citizenship before intent to reside was in place. He had frequent travel to the US for work (and elsewhere) - which triggered RQ. He more than satisfied RO when he applied (had well above the number of days) and was spending the vast majority of his time within Canada. But RQ still happened. So based on my past experience, my advice to you is be prepared for RQ and longer processing times.
 

justinline

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May 19, 2009
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The removal of intent to reside doesn't change anything. Frequent travel out of the country or working outside of the country can still create problems and you should expect there's a good chance you'll receive RQ which will prolong the citizenship process. My husband is American and applied for citizenship before intent to reside was in place. He had frequent travel to the US for work (and elsewhere) - which triggered RQ. He more than satisfied RO when he applied (had well above the number of days) and was spending the vast majority of his time within Canada. But RQ still happened. So based on my past experience, my advice to you is be prepared for RQ and longer processing times.

Thanks Scylla for your insight. How long did the RQ process take? What kind of evidence he compiled to show residency requirement....probably I start collecting now.

Thanks,Justin