Bill C-24 Second Reading on February 27th:

[on-hold]

u4g5, you keep saying the same thing again and again about C-24 going into effect immediately. We already know that the provisions relating to the number of years required to apply for citizenship will go into effect on a date that will be decided by the Government AT A LATER TIME. Your e-mail from Mr. Kurland does not say "nobody knows". He is simply stating that there are other steps (Royal Assent, etc.) before a bill (meaning a bill in general) becomes law.

And here's another thing too -- in the real world, bureaucracies sometimes just do things, that aren't explicitly ordered by statute. That's life, not everything is dealt with in legalistic procedures. CIC realistically knows that this bill is going to pass, they are going to go ahead and get ready for it. Remember back when the bill was introduced? They immediately applied a new fee schedule, that actually included people who would have sent their applications in good faith a few days beforehand. A bit heavyhanded in my opinion, but what are you going to do? The bureaucracy doesn't have to answer when it steps on toes. For all this hyperventilating about Royal Assent and implementation schedule, we have absolutely no idea what CIC has already done, or what they plan on doing when the bill passes. They might be holding all applications to return them. They might be planning on implementing the bill's provisions on a rolling schedule. July 1st or January 1st might be the target date. No one can tell us. It is a situation where adding more information does not add clarity.

 

[civic]

No Body knows doesnt mean it will come into force directly .. it just means "no body knows" because they didnt specify that in the Bill Clearly. And this can't be compared to Raising fees scenario .. this will be announced ahead of time for sure.

Based on all Previous Citizenship Acts it took at least 6 months to come into force

tired of your subjective thoughts

Maybe you are trying not to understand what you should. Trying not to accept the reality. "Nobody knows" means just that. Nobody can't interpret this process based on personal judgement, including you. We know when it happens.

You can't translate what Richard Kurland was trying to say. You can't translate this Bill based on how other bills work. None of us here, I guess, is part of parliamentary process.

 

[on-hold]

And this can't be compared to Raising fees scenario .. this will be announced ahead of time for sure.

Why? You might be right (by chance), but why? I'm confused why you feel it necessary to continue making confident predictions on one hand, and then post emails you send to experts begging for knowledge on the other hand. Don't you understand that implementation is going to be determined by a combination of Royal Assent, the CIC bureaucracy, and political desire, and that no one has any information on any of these three?

 

[sicko86]

tired of your subjective thoughts

Maybe you are trying not to understand what you should. Trying not to accept the reality. "Nobody knows" means just that. Nobody can't interpret this process based on personal judgement, including you. We know when it happens.

You can't translate what Richard Kurland was trying to say. You can't translate this Bill based on how other bills work. None of us here, I guess, is part of parliamentary process.

I never claimed I know exactly when this will happen. I just compare this to realistic previous scenarios.

I checked tens of Bills (Including Citizenship Related and others ... nothing came into force in matter of days). This is how I analyze.

This is way far from being subjective .. Subjective thinking when you just think it will come into force directly without having similar previous case or scenario.

 

[civic]

I never claimed I know exactly when this will happen. I just compare this to realistic previous scenarios.

I checked tens of Bills (Including Citizenship Related and others ... nothing came into force in matter of days). This is how I analyze.

You insist that it is a common practice for coming into force date to be a long period after royal assent. It might be a common practice. But there is no LAW preventing them from implementing it next day. LAW will govern their works.

And so your analysis can be right or wrong. It's best for us to position ourselves in passiveness now, rather than throwing in unfounded guesses or 'analysis' that can confuse people.

 

[Empirical-Scientist]

I never claimed I know exactly when this will happen. I just compare this to realistic previous scenarios.

I checked tens of Bills (Including Citizenship Related and others ... nothing came into force in matter of days). This is how I analyze.

This is way far from being subjective .. Subjective thinking when you just think it will come into force directly without having similar previous case or scenario.

Sicko, why do you even bother... Just wait and see instead of speculating like a fortune-teller.

 

[sicko86]

And so your analysis can be right or wrong. It's best for us to position ourselves in passiveness now, rather than throwing in unfounded guesses or 'analysis' that can confuse people.

See I hate this way of Drama thinking .. Just be Passive and freakout .. why should we do that? When you see previous scenarios you understand what is the norm.

Nothing is guaranteed ... but you just talk about what most likely will happen.

 

[civic]

See I hate this way of Drama thinking .. Just be Passive and freakout .. why should we do that? When you see previous scenarios you understand what is the norm.

Nothing is guaranteed ... but you just talk about what most likely will happen.

What most likely to happen is that the Bill will pass and the coming into force is a big unknown. In your mind the coming into force is far away (as you wish). You try to turn your dreams into reality based on weak arguments. I will be more convinced if you have more than what you've been saying : your research on tens of previous bills. What else?

 

[u4g5]

u4g5, you keep saying the same thing again and again about C-24 going into effect immediately. We already know that the provisions relating to the number of years required to apply for citizenship will go into effect on a date that will be decided by the Government AT A LATER TIME. Your e-mail from Mr. Kurland does not say "nobody knows". He is simply stating that there are other steps (Royal Assent, etc.) before a bill (meaning a bill in general) becomes law.

from me :
Dear Mr Kurland, as an citizenship applicant, my application wont reach sydney n.s until friday, the june 20th. Will i still be processed under the old rule? or my application will get returned bcuz the bill will receive royal assent on thursday or friday. Thank you

Kurland:
no one knows…

 

[chakrab]

What most likely to happen is that the Bill will pass and the coming into force is a big unknown. In your mind the coming into force is far away (as you wish). You try to turn your dreams into reality based on weak arguments. I will be more convinced if you have more than what you've been saying : your research on tens of previous bills. What else?

unless the governor in council meets on june 20th to discuss everything, they probably wouldn't meet till september 15.

 

[u4g5]

Common knowledge, is that once a bill has received royal assent, it has become part of legislative. of course, when the government implementing it is another question for debate.

Its June 18 now, and tonight we will see what the government order in Senate and do expect the bill pass 3rd reading this week, or no later than next friday, last day of senate sitting.

and AGAIN, it is up to Minister to FORMALLY announce the change, i am sure thousands and thousands r watching.

Done for now.

 

[alphazip]

I never claimed I know exactly when this will happen. I just compare this to realistic previous scenarios.

I checked tens of Bills (Including Citizenship Related and others ... nothing came into force in matter of days). This is how I analyze.

This is way far from being subjective .. Subjective thinking when you just think it will come into force directly without having similar previous case or scenario.

I don't want to get into an argument with anyone. I think we should be here sharing information...information based on facts and research. I personally am not opposed at all to someone doing an analysis of previous laws to see how quickly they went into effect. That *may* give us some insight into how quickly the Government will implement C-24. What we DO know already is that the provisions dealing with number of years will NOT come into effect immediately. Therefore, when some people keep writing that the bill will pass (say) tomorrow and go into effect immediately, that's not helpful, because it's false. People are going to have some time before they must get their applications in under the old rules. We just don't know how much time that will be.

 

[chakrab]

here's the page on how GIC works. there are 8 steps including

Review by DOJ Legislative Counsel at HQ in consultation with DLSU counsel
Submission recommended and signed by the minister responsible for the department, agency or Crown corporation

http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/index.asp?lang=eng&page=secretariats&sub=oic-ddc&doc=gic-gec-eng.htm

 

[civic]

I guess there will be a cut off day for sure and that will be announced ahead of time (if they are nice), or will just have an overnight notice (if they are heartless like how they've been with immigration). Chris Alexander probably already had the date in his mind. I don't think they will hold all applications being received from recent days and return them (I am one of them) . Applying for citizenship after fulfilling physical presence is a RIGHT protected under citizenship act.

Rights can only be challenged/changed by legislative process, not by CIC operational instruction.

 

[shakeel7]

Come into Force:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&billId=6401990&View=6

It wont come into force as soon as it gets Royal Assent .. how do you know this will happen? It says clearly in the Bill it will not come into force upon Royal Assent! It will on a day decided by the council.