Would this count as Work Experience?

[jes_ON]

What about the LMIA? To me the IRCC website would agree that if you have worked for a full year for an employer in Canada (in a NOC 0,A,B position), still have a valid LMIA-exempt work permit (like the IEC visas?) and receive a job offer, that this should not require someone to have an LMIA but still get the points for it?

Ah... not exactly. There are slightly different requirements depending on the type of work permit you have at the time you apply.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...e-candidate/eligibility/offer-employment.html

If you are still on the working holiday visa (open - no employer named on the permit), you would need an LMIA to be eligible for the 50 points, and a job offer letter. If you are on the Young Professionals (employer named on permit), you would be eligible with the job offer letter. This letter is not for your current job, but is an offer of future employment for at least one year from the date you become a permanent resident.

"if you have a valid work permit for a NOC 0, A or B job that is exempt from needing an LMIA, and you:

• are currently working for an employer specified on the work permit
• have one year of full-time work experience (or an equal amount of part-time work) for that employer
• have a valid job offer from that employer for at least one year after we issue your permanent resident visa"

Also, if anything, what if I simply do not specify that the internship was counting towards my degree credits (not lying, just mentioning I did an internship)? From your reply it doesn't seem as if they neccessarily are going to inquire about it

I am not sure where in the profile or application it would come up. Re-reading everything, I would say that what might still be problematic is the fact that you were paid an honorarium instead of a regular salary/wage. But I just don't know. The CRA considers that to be income, so I am not certain why IRCC would not. Post-docs who are paid a stipend are similar (although better paid), and they are accepted.

 

[Vitesze]

Thanks for the reply!

Although I did start off with a Working Holiday Visa, by the time I plan to enter the EE pool and have my job offer validated, I will be on a Young Professionals Visa (already received the acceptance letter for this - just need to pick it up at the border). The employer will be listed on this. So the way I understand, after my YP Visa has started and my employer gives me an offer of employment for 1 year, that should give me the 50 pts. without an LMIA.

Agreed, from everything I read online, the thing that came up several times with other people is whether an internship can be considered employment when it's less than minimum wage....it counts as income as far as the CRA is concerned but I guess would still not qualify as a ''real'' job (otherwise such a less-than-minimum wage income wouldn't be permitted).

Still the experience is the same. The IRCC mentions that internships/apprenticeships after graduation DO count for work experience, however in those cases the pay may be below minimum wage as well. So i dont know what they'll think of it...I will just try and see!

 

[jes_ON]

Thanks for the reply!
Although I did start off with a Working Holiday Visa, by the time I plan to enter the EE pool and have my job offer validated, I will be on a Young Professionals Visa (already received the acceptance letter for this - just need to pick it up at the border). The employer will be listed on this. So the way I understand, after my YP Visa has started and my employer gives me an offer of employment for 1 year, that should give me the 50 pts. without an LMIA.
Yes, with the qualification that the offer of employment must be for (at least) 1 year after you become a permanent resident. (Not 1 year from the date of the offer).

Still the experience is the same. The IRCC mentions that internships/apprenticeships after graduation DO count for work experience, however in those cases the pay may be below minimum wage as well.
Exactly. I don't think this case is that unusual ...

So i dont know what they'll think of it...I will just try and see!
Good luck, and let us know what happens!

 

[Vitesze]

Actually, i'm pretty sure my Young Professionals visa doesn't classify as an eligible work permit for the job offer points. Although it is LMIA-exempt, it's not exempt on the basis of an international agreement (like NAFTA, GATS)? So looks like I'm not going to get those +50 pts.

For sure another grey area, as logically IEC could be considered an international agreement, but the very little information I can find on this topic suggests it most likely isn't considered as such?

 

[jes_ON]

Actually, i'm pretty sure my Young Professionals visa doesn't classify as an eligible work permit for the job offer points. Although it is LMIA-exempt, it's not exempt on the basis of an international agreement (like NAFTA, GATS). So looks like I'm not going to get those +50 pts.

LOL, this one is easy - it definitely is eligible -
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...eligibility/offer-employment/lmia-exempt.html

See 3.b.ii

 

[Vitesze]

LOL, this one is easy - it definitely is eligible -
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...eligibility/offer-employment/lmia-exempt.html

See 3.b.ii

Oh right! I should really get better at reading. Indeed, after I read the 1-2-3 at the top, I didn't really bother looking into the ''Canadian interests'' reasons, as I don't really see how IEC is in the best interest of Canada...but guess it is! Because it's reciprocal i suppose...

 

[Vitesze]

LOL, this one is easy - it definitely is eligible -
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...eligibility/offer-employment/lmia-exempt.html

See 3.b.ii

What about this scenario then?

At the point of my application, my LMIA-exempt YP visa may only be valid for about 7 months (if I get declined and have to re-do it in September) At this point, it is required for the LMIA-exempt work permit to support the full duration of the job offer (i.e. 12 months)? So, if I only have a part of my YP visa duration remaining, can my employer still offer me a contract for longer than that period, giving me the 50 points for it?

 

[jes_ON]

What about this scenario then?

At the point of my application, my LMIA-exempt YP visa may only be valid for about 7 months (if I get declined and have to re-do it in September) At this point, it is required for the LMIA-exempt work permit to support the full duration of the job offer (i.e. 12 months)? So, if I only have a part of my YP visa duration remaining, can my employer still offer me a contract for longer than that period, giving me the 50 points for it?

Remember, the job offer is contingent upon you obtaining permanent resident status. Once you are a PR, you don't need a work permit : )

I might add that once your PR application is accepted for processing, you are eligible for a Bridging Open Work Permit (BOWP) to tide you over, if your YP permit will expire before a decision is made on your PR application.

 

[Vitesze]

Remember, the job offer is contingent upon you obtaining permanent resident status. Once you are a PR, you don't need a work permit : )

I might add that once your PR application is accepted for processing, you are eligible for a Bridging Open Work Permit (BOWP) to tide you over, if your YP permit will expire before a decision is made on your PR application.

Yes of course, that makes sense. I was just wondering if I would have to submit a Young Professionals application together with a PR application or something, as I thought the LMIA-exempt visa would have to be able to support the actual job offer without a PR acceptance....it's a bit confusing, but I suppose I'm overthinking it, as the rules clearly mention you just have to be on an LMIA-exempt visa.

 

[Vitesze]

Just wanted to reply to this again, as I started applying for PR under Express Entry yesterday.

In the application, it states the following thing when entering work experience:
"Studying full-time while doing this job? A person must be in class at least 15 hours per week during the academic year to be considered full-time. This includes any period of training in the workplace that is part of the study program"

Going with this, regardless of where one studied/worked, an internship done before graduation (especially if it nets college credits) seems to be ineligible.

The only part one could argue about is how ''training'' is defined - in my case, my daily duties have remained the same, I didn't return to college afterwards, and my internship/job is also in a completely different field than my degree. I didn't attend any classes, so that part obviously doesn't apply.



I think I will simply say ''No'' to this question - as I ended up with a Score of 504, I most likely will get an Invitation to Apply. If they ask about this, I'll mention that I didn't take classes and the reasons for why I didn't consider it 'training' - I'm okay with it if I have to wait a couple of months (for 1yr work experience), I just don't want to ruin my chances by getting banned from applying for giving false information.

 

[jes_ON]

Just wanted to reply to this again, as I started applying for PR under Express Entry yesterday.

In the application, it states the following thing when entering work experience:
"Studying full-time while doing this job? A person must be in class at least 15 hours per week during the academic year to be considered full-time. This includes any period of training in the workplace that is part of the study program"

Going with this, regardless of where one studied/worked, an internship done before graduation (especially if it nets college credits) seems to be ineligible.

The correct answer is NO, because you were not a student in Canada (not working on a study permit) -you were a student in a foreign country - and/or because you were not enrolled at the time.. Just writing this for others.... I completely understand your interpretation of the above in isolation, but you only get those questions for IN CANADA work experience. It assumes that if you are in Canada, the only way you could study full-time is IN CANADA. While this may not be 100% true, but it is close enough to be a reasonable assumption.

 

[Vitesze]

The correct answer is NO, because you were not a student in Canada (not working on a study permit) -you were a student in a foreign country - and/or because you were not enrolled at the time.. Just writing this for others.... I completely understand your interpretation of the above in isolation, but you only get those questions for IN CANADA work experience. It assumes that if you are in Canada, the only way you could study full-time is IN CANADA. While this may not be 100% true, but it is close enough to be a reasonable assumption.

I was officially enrolled though, but I get your point. It's a confusing topic and in general they are very unclear about it. I will go ahead and apply, and just see what happens

 

[Vitesze]

The correct answer is NO, because you were not a student in Canada (not working on a study permit) -you were a student in a foreign country - and/or because you were not enrolled at the time.. Just writing this for others.... I completely understand your interpretation of the above in isolation, but you only get those questions for IN CANADA work experience. It assumes that if you are in Canada, the only way you could study full-time is IN CANADA. While this may not be 100% true, but it is close enough to be a reasonable assumption.

Do you know if for an LMIA-exempt job offer to be counted towards the Score, it has to be submitted on the CIC website by the employer, or if the offer of employment simply has to be provided to the VO after the ITA? My employer and I have been looking at this - but the only thing we could think of is essentially replicating the previous offer of employment (using the R205(b) - C21 exemption code again) as I'm still on that same IEC visa.

Can't find much information about this sadly.

 

[jes_ON]

Do you know if for an LMIA-exempt job offer to be counted towards the Score, it has to be submitted on the CIC website by the employer, or if the offer of employment simply has to be provided to the VO after the ITA? My employer and I have been looking at this - but the only thing we could think of is essentially replicating the previous offer of employment (using the R205(b) - C21 exemption code again) as I'm still on that same IEC visa.

Can't find much information about this sadly.

Hmmm.... why not? This page lists all the application requirements -
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...-after-january-1-2016-completeness-check.html

See the section, Letter of Offer from the employer. You would include the letter with your eAPR..

 

[Vitesze]

Hmmm.... why not? This page lists all the application requirements -
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigratio...-after-january-1-2016-completeness-check.html

See the section, Letter of Offer from the employer. You would include the letter with your eAPR..

Right. So the way it is phrased in that link, it would not be required to submit it through the Employer Portal - but to be sure we will add in a paragraph in the job offer detailing the LMIA-exemption code + reason.