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Withdrawal and reapply- will it again delay? anyone with experience

Exports

Star Member
Aug 10, 2015
124
7
I met secretary for one of the MPs today and I was told that if I withdraw and reapply again it might again go for delay...
I had taken opinion of the lawyer twice and was told- it doesn't affect. SO CONFUSED.

Anyone have got experience in this ? Withdrawn and reapplied.

I am withdrawing since no time frame being provided for CJ hearing even after 8 months. And the AVERAGE TIME of CJ hearing in Scarborough and Mississauga varies between 18-24 months from the time of TEST TO CJ HEARING....

ANYONE WITH EXPERIENCE - APPRECIATE IF YOU COULD NARRATE THE EXPERIENCE
 

Politren

Hero Member
Jan 16, 2015
470
149
Canadiandesi2006 is in the same situation. Withdraw and reapplied and again experience delays (still waiting for the test while many from September October are waiting for their Oaths, some of them are already done)

So the chances are that a delay might happen again.
Ambient2 also don't want to withdraw for the same reason.
 

stone8198

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May 9, 2012
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Please share your timeline.

I applied may 2015, got rq on 6th jan 2016 on the test day. passed test. didnt hear anything after that.

Got gcms reports mentioning hearing required.
Older gcms said my file due date was July 2016 before the rq and test.
now the due date is feb 2017, probably bcoz my file requires judge hearing. Secondly, my gcms mentions Residency - FAILED.

I won't withdraw either, whether its accepted or rejected or goes to federal. coz i put in everything i could in the application, if they request anything more. i really don't have anything else to prove/

hope this helps.
 

Exports

Star Member
Aug 10, 2015
124
7
Applied in Mar 2013
RQ SUBMITTED WITH TRANSLATED COPIES OF PASSPORT PAGES: NOV 2013
1st FINGER PRINT : SOMETIME in 2014
2nd FINGER PRINT : SOMETIME IN 2015
TEST PASSED : AUG 15
SINCE THEN WAITING:

ATIP NOTES: DOESN't mention except says IN QUEUE FOR CJ HEARING. NO TIME FRAME PROVIDED. WRITTEN SEVERAL LETTERS ASKING FOR TIME FRAME. NO RESPONSE..

I ORDERED SPECIFIC ATIP ONLY FOR TIMEFRAME STATISTICS - AVERAGE TIMEFRAM FROM TIME OF TEST TO CJ HEARING-
FOR SCARBOROUGH: IT IS 18 MONTHS FOR MISSISAUGA IT COULD BE 24-26 MONTHS AVERAGE FOR DIFFERENT YEARS. I COULDN'T BELIEVE BUT NOW AM SURE IT WOULD TAKE THAT MUCH TIME..

I DONT THINK I WILL GET CJ HEARING IN LESS THAN 1 YEAR FROM NOW- HAVE ALREADY GONE THROUGH ALMOST 8 MONTHS..

SO JUST WEIGHING MY OPTION... SHALL I WITHDRAW AND RISK OF GETTING DELAYED OR CHOSE OF REAPPLYING AGAIN.

I AM WITH SELFDECLARED 917 DAYS... DONES'T MENTION ANYTHING LIKE RESIDENCY FAILED OR PASSED...

JUST SHOWS ABSENSES NOT VERIFIED.. THE CIC OFFICER WAS LAZY NOT TO VERIFY MY ABSENCES DUE TO NUMBER OF STAMPS..
 

Politren

Hero Member
Jan 16, 2015
470
149
Exports you might want to look again this scenario and how CIC is messing up when more than once have been applied.

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/citizenship-not-approved-t409689.0.html
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,299
3,064
To withdraw or not to withdraw; my sense overall:

Withdrawing an application probably leads to at least a closer examination when an individual re-applies, but the actual consequence of this probably varies widely depending on many factors. A huge, probable factor is whether there were concerns about the applicant's credibility in the first application; if so, a new application will not automatically clean the slate, so concerns the first time around may continue to plague the applicant in the second application.

On the other hand, withdrawing a declared shortfall application, and reapplying after being solidly qualified, makes sense on its face, and in the absence of any reason to have credibility concerns, my sense is that even if there are some additional inquiries made, some additional documents requested, the actual processing time should not be too significantly delayed.

Obviously there is room for many variations in between these two scenarios.

Historically, a second application was typically subject to RQ, but not always.



Some explanatory observations:

It has been a few years now since CIC has publicly divulged much at all about the criteria employed to screen applicants, particularly as to criteria triggering RQ or what amounts to a residency case.

The last versions of criteria we had much information regarding (largely through various ATI requests and one response to an ATIP request which was widely shared, the latter providing a copy of the File Requirements Checklist which included the so-called triage criteria, sometimes referred to as risk indicators) still included what was known as A3, "previous citizenship applications which were not approved, withdrawn, abandoned, renounced or revoked."

Which is to say, at least through 2013 or so, the fact of having had a prior citizenship application typically triggered at least the issuance of RQ. Any RQ will undoubtedly result in some delay, but how much so varies from case to case.

Notwithstanding this, however, there were reports in another forum, and perhaps this one as well (my memory as to which forum some reports were in that long ago is a bit fuzzy), by a small number of individuals whose second application actually sailed smoothly through the process. However, these were individuals whose first application involved a shortfall and no credibility concerns, and who in the meantime had continued to live in Canada, and mostly be present in Canada, and it was at the CJ hearing (for the first application), per the advice of the Citizenship Judge, that they withdrew and then reapplied. It appeared that notes were made in their file by the CJ which likely indicated the strength of their case upon re-applying, leading to an easier and faster process for the second application.

Which is to say, even when we knew for sure that a new application, after withdrawing an application, was marked for RQ pursuant to the screening criteria, it did not always result in RQ the next time.

Since 2013 we know the triage criteria has been modified in some respects, probably significantly so, but because the screening criteria is considered confidential information, CIC and IRCC have been careful to not divulge what those changes have been. We also know that CIC (now IRCC) implemented the issuance of the CIT 0520 form for requesting a limited amount of additional documentation regarding proof of residency (now presence rather than residency for applications since June 11, 2015), and thus it is clear that many applications which would have been subject to RQ and full-blown residency-case processing (with long delays) before 2013 are now only being issued the CIT 0520, sometimes resulting in some delay but not necessarily long delays.

Which leads back to my overall sense, and that there are many factors which can influence how a second application will be assessed. Thus, to some extent it is probably related to the types of issues causing delays for the first application. For the applicant who has become qualified in the meantime, while a first application was pending, it makes total sense to withdraw an application with a simple shortfall without any credibility concerns. On the other hand, if the applicant declared well over 1095 days actual presence in the first application, then withdraws, there is a significant chance that whatever concerns were underlying delays for the first application are something IRCC will want to examine and assess the second time around as well.

As in many of these things, there is no-one-rule-fits-all, and there are so many variables any attempt to enumerate some is likely to be more misleading than helpful. But, as usual, some factors loom more obviously.

For example: As already noted, any credibility concerns are likely to follow the applicant in a second application.

For example: Withdrawing after being issued RQ without responding to the RQ is likely (my guess) to invite questions about what is it that the applicant did not want to disclose, which in a sense amounts to raising a credibility concern.


Timeline:

There are no guarantees. No reliable forecasts per se. But in general I think it is a safe bet that timelines will be shorter for many procedures which took years in the recent past. Thus, my guess is that generally non-routine cases are not likely to take nearly so long as they were taking even in 2014/2015, let alone the grossly excessive timelines for those who applied in 2010 to 2013 and ended up in a non-routine process. Which is to say, unless the current application is so flawed there is virtually no chance of success, probably better to ride it through to at least the CJ hearing. There is a chance of success. And if not, at the least this puts the applicants' case into the record, and could easily establish a base line of information in the applicant's GCMS against which it could be clear the second application overcomes the flaws in the first. Thus, even if the second is also processed as a non-routine case, it may nonetheless sail through the process relatively easily and on a fast timeline.


Ultimately, of course, it is a personal judgment call whether to abandon/withdraw a pending application and start over. Again there is no-one-rule-fits-all. The particular facts and circumstances of each individual's case will have much influence in determining what the best course of action is for any particular person.

Once an applicant is perceived to have credibility issues, however, those can be difficult to overcome unless and until there is solid, objective proof for every aspect, every element of the application.
 

Politren

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Jan 16, 2015
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On the other hand the line for the CJ hearing is pretty possible to be likely long due to the influx of shortfall applications because of the current Bill C-24.
 

HighFive

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Mar 13, 2014
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Politren, remember that Canadiandesi2006 went thru RQ and CJ hearing, and CJ personally told him to withdraw and re-apply.

Everyone with self-declared short days of physical presence should be safe to withdraw and re-apply.
 

Politren

Hero Member
Jan 16, 2015
470
149
HighFive said:
Politren, remember that Canadiandesi2006 went thru RQ and CJ hearing, and CJ personally told him to withdraw and re-apply.

Everyone with self-declared short days of physical presence should be safe to withdraw and re-apply.
I was referencing to Canadiandesi2006 regarding the question from Exports...

Exports said:
Anyone have got experience in this ? Withdrawn and reapplied.
 

Exports

Star Member
Aug 10, 2015
124
7
Politren said:
On the other hand the line for the CJ hearing is pretty possible to be likely long due to the influx of shortfall applications because of the current Bill C-24.
Hi Politren

Thanks for your feedback.

CJ hearing is taking below schedule as per the IRCC statistics which I had asked specifically for these two offices in number of days and months for Jan 2013-Dec 2015
Mississauga CIC: For 2013, 2014 and 2015 it was - 33, 39 and 36 months - Average 36 months
Scarborough CIC: For 2013, 2014 and 2015 it was - 13, 19 and 20 months- Average 19 months

No call center agent or the MP secretary is going to give atleast a wild rough estimate for CJ hearing... I tried a lot getting answer how much time from the time of TEST to the CJ hearing for RQ applications... ( The statistics only are until Sept 2015 ) The standard answer is " each case is different "

It wud take many months for people like me scheduled for CJ hearing even after waiting 3+ years. The decision of withdraw and reapply wud have been easy if straight with no risks of intentional delay by the officer reviewing the file.. but is complicated.. so couldn't take the decision even after 8 months. I was told by the CO that it wud be 3 months after the test.. then again followup said 6 months.. then again followup said 36 months... after that they say " no time frame provided " For new application I am keeping my docs ready and will have to take decision anytime sooner..
 

hkalltheway

Star Member
Oct 6, 2011
104
6
My first application:

Applied: August 2011
RQ: January 2013
Withdrawal: April 2015

Second application:

Applied: May 2015
Test: November 2015
Oath: February 2016


So, in my case, despite being issued an RQ on my first application, I was not issued one on the second application, although he did check my passports and stamps very carefully during my test in November 2015. All the best!
 

Exports

Star Member
Aug 10, 2015
124
7
hkalltheway said:
My first application:

Applied: August 2011
RQ: January 2013
Withdrawal: April 2015

Second application:

Applied: May 2015
Test: November 2015
Oath: February 2016


So, in my case, despite being is isued an RQ on my first application, I was not issued one on the second application, although he did check my passports and stamps very carefully during my test in November 2015. All the best!
Thanks for the info. Second time I am making it sure that they get all the docs more than the required checklist such as notarized copies of translated entry exit copies, WES evaluation copies, by CLB report of 2012 for language.and other related docs.
 

Politren

Hero Member
Jan 16, 2015
470
149
Frankly when so many of us can't accurately predict the actions from CIC, particularly that two different officers might impose different processing criteria , that means that there is simply no such thing as mandatory processing standards in CIC.

In that sense different sources of information reporting totally different timeframes , when in practise there is no such thing as Mandatory deadlines for CIC is just another prove how chaotic the whole CIC is.

The main problem is in CIC. I have also been seen two totally identical citizenship applications ending up in a completely different scenarios.

All of the above simply means that different officers imply different standards on similar applications.

Every application is different seems to be one a vague excuse, just to justify that different officers are likely to imply the CIC policy in a different way.
 

heeradeepak

Hero Member
Jun 1, 2014
398
11
Politren said:
Frankly when so many of us can't accurately predict the actions from CIC, particularly that two different officers might impose different processing criteria , that means that there is simply no such thing as mandatory processing standards in CIC.

In that sense different sources of information reporting totally different timeframes , when in practise there is no such thing as Mandatory deadlines for CIC is just another prove how chaotic the whole CIC is.

The main problem is in CIC. I have also been seen two totally identical citizenship applications ending up in a completely different scenarios.

All of the above simply means that different officers imply different standards on similar applications.

Every application is different seems to be one a vague excuse, just to justify that different officers are likely to imply the CIC policy in a different way.
How to deal with this no one can predict officers mood?
 

Politren

Hero Member
Jan 16, 2015
470
149
heeradeepak said:
How to deal with this no one can predict officers mood?
There is no way to deal with subjectivity. You can see the practical results from this... one question, forces different advises contradicting each other coming from different sources. And those sources are giving the right advices according to their point of view.

All that is because there is no consistency from CIC. I just don't see a way to deal with it.

How to deal with something which is NOT consistent I got no idea.