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Withdrawal and reapply- will it again delay? anyone with experience

Exports

Star Member
Aug 10, 2015
124
7
Politren said:
There is no way to deal with subjectivity. You can see the practical results from this... one question, forces different advises contradicting each other coming from different sources. And those sources are giving the right advices according to their point of view.

All that is because there is no consistency from CIC. I just don't see a way to deal with it.

How to deal with something which is NOT consistent I got no idea.
Today I met another MP Secretary to see if the first withdrawn application triggers the second one and may delay... She said yes and again called up the cic with specific query what I asked. I got the reply yes they would again review the 1st one... I wanted to double check so approached 2 MPs and same response..
Difficult to make decision!
 

mwabu1976

Full Member
Mar 10, 2014
48
4
Lets think about it this way. What the CIC will think If you withdraw and apply again? they will think that there is something wrong with the first application and may be there is something wrong with the new one. They will not think or understand that people are tired of the long wait and trying to get thing done faster.

It is really so hard to wait for long time to have your application procecced, but remember that you may wait again with the new application.

I don't know if you have a specific issue that makes you feel want to withdraw and apply again.


In general I would say this, DON't Withdraw IF you have followed the rules and done nothing wrong especially having the required number of days for recidancy.
 

nkam

Star Member
Dec 20, 2015
82
2
Related to this tread, are there stories or reports of applicants who got citizenship and were successful in second applications after withdrawing first one?
 

h3a3j6

Hero Member
Mar 31, 2014
382
69
Montréal
Exports said:
Hi Politren

Thanks for your feedback.

CJ hearing is taking below schedule as per the IRCC statistics which I had asked specifically for these two offices in number of days and months for Jan 2013-Dec 2015
Mississauga CIC: For 2013, 2014 and 2015 it was - 33, 39 and 36 months - Average 36 months
Scarborough CIC: For 2013, 2014 and 2015 it was - 13, 19 and 20 months- Average 19 months

No call center agent or the MP secretary is going to give atleast a wild rough estimate for CJ hearing... I tried a lot getting answer how much time from the time of TEST to the CJ hearing for RQ applications... ( The statistics only are until Sept 2015 ) The standard answer is " each case is different "

It wud take many months for people like me scheduled for CJ hearing even after waiting 3+ years. The decision of withdraw and reapply wud have been easy if straight with no risks of intentional delay by the officer reviewing the file.. but is complicated.. so couldn't take the decision even after 8 months. I was told by the CO that it wud be 3 months after the test.. then again followup said 6 months.. then again followup said 36 months... after that they say " no time frame provided " For new application I am keeping my docs ready and will have to take decision anytime sooner..
This is really horrible... "no time frame provided". I really can't understand how this is even remotely possible. What kind of service is being provided here?
 

heeradeepak

Hero Member
Jun 1, 2014
398
11
Exports said:
Today I met another MP Secretary to see if the first withdrawn application triggers the second one and may delay... She said yes and again called up the cic with specific query what I asked. I got the reply yes they would again review the 1st one... I wanted to double check so approached 2 MPs and same response..
Difficult to make decision!
Only if first application does not have solid residency proof better to withdraw it and apply again.

So many people's withdraw the applications and applied again yes second application could face delay also all depend on CIC officer.
 

nkam

Star Member
Dec 20, 2015
82
2
@Depanbill,
Would you please make an in input or refer to links to that from your long experience and involvement when you have some time..any judgements that addresses multiple applications involving withdrawel and reapply or refusal and reapply?

Related to this tread, are there stories or reports of applicants who got citizenship and were successful in second applications after withdrawing first one?

thanks for your time and input..


dpenabill said:
To withdraw or not to withdraw; my sense overall:

Withdrawing an application probably leads to at least a closer examination when an individual re-applies, but the actual consequence of this probably varies widely depending on many factors. A huge, probable factor is whether there were concerns about the applicant's credibility in the first application; if so, a new application will not automatically clean the slate, so concerns the first time around may continue to plague the applicant in the second application.

On the other hand, withdrawing a declared shortfall application, and reapplying after being solidly qualified, makes sense on its face, and in the absence of any reason to have credibility concerns, my sense is that even if there are some additional inquiries made, some additional documents requested, the actual processing time should not be too significantly delayed.

Obviously there is room for many variations in between these two scenarios.

Historically, a second application was typically subject to RQ, but not always.



Some explanatory observations:

It has been a few years now since CIC has publicly divulged much at all about the criteria employed to screen applicants, particularly as to criteria triggering RQ or what amounts to a residency case.

The last versions of criteria we had much information regarding (largely through various ATI requests and one response to an ATIP request which was widely shared, the latter providing a copy of the File Requirements Checklist which included the so-called triage criteria, sometimes referred to as risk indicators) still included what was known as A3, "previous citizenship applications which were not approved, withdrawn, abandoned, renounced or revoked."

Which is to say, at least through 2013 or so, the fact of having had a prior citizenship application typically triggered at least the issuance of RQ. Any RQ will undoubtedly result in some delay, but how much so varies from case to case.

Notwithstanding this, however, there were reports in another forum, and perhaps this one as well (my memory as to which forum some reports were in that long ago is a bit fuzzy), by a small number of individuals whose second application actually sailed smoothly through the process. However, these were individuals whose first application involved a shortfall and no credibility concerns, and who in the meantime had continued to live in Canada, and mostly be present in Canada, and it was at the CJ hearing (for the first application), per the advice of the Citizenship Judge, that they withdrew and then reapplied. It appeared that notes were made in their file by the CJ which likely indicated the strength of their case upon re-applying, leading to an easier and faster process for the second application.

Which is to say, even when we knew for sure that a new application, after withdrawing an application, was marked for RQ pursuant to the screening criteria, it did not always result in RQ the next time.

Since 2013 we know the triage criteria has been modified in some respects, probably significantly so, but because the screening criteria is considered confidential information, CIC and IRCC have been careful to not divulge what those changes have been. We also know that CIC (now IRCC) implemented the issuance of the CIT 0520 form for requesting a limited amount of additional documentation regarding proof of residency (now presence rather than residency for applications since June 11, 2015), and thus it is clear that many applications which would have been subject to RQ and full-blown residency-case processing (with long delays) before 2013 are now only being issued the CIT 0520, sometimes resulting in some delay but not necessarily long delays.

Which leads back to my overall sense, and that there are many factors which can influence how a second application will be assessed. Thus, to some extent it is probably related to the types of issues causing delays for the first application. For the applicant who has become qualified in the meantime, while a first application was pending, it makes total sense to withdraw an application with a simple shortfall without any credibility concerns. On the other hand, if the applicant declared well over 1095 days actual presence in the first application, then withdraws, there is a significant chance that whatever concerns were underlying delays for the first application are something IRCC will want to examine and assess the second time around as well.

As in many of these things, there is no-one-rule-fits-all, and there are so many variables any attempt to enumerate some is likely to be more misleading than helpful. But, as usual, some factors loom more obviously.

For example: As already noted, any credibility concerns are likely to follow the applicant in a second application.

For example: Withdrawing after being issued RQ without responding to the RQ is likely (my guess) to invite questions about what is it that the applicant did not want to disclose, which in a sense amounts to raising a credibility concern.


Timeline:

There are no guarantees. No reliable forecasts per se. But in general I think it is a safe bet that timelines will be shorter for many procedures which took years in the recent past. Thus, my guess is that generally non-routine cases are not likely to take nearly so long as they were taking even in 2014/2015, let alone the grossly excessive timelines for those who applied in 2010 to 2013 and ended up in a non-routine process. Which is to say, unless the current application is so flawed there is virtually no chance of success, probably better to ride it through to at least the CJ hearing. There is a chance of success. And if not, at the least this puts the applicants' case into the record, and could easily establish a base line of information in the applicant's GCMS against which it could be clear the second application overcomes the flaws in the first. Thus, even if the second is also processed as a non-routine case, it may nonetheless sail through the process relatively easily and on a fast timeline.


Ultimately, of course, it is a personal judgment call whether to abandon/withdraw a pending application and start over. Again there is no-one-rule-fits-all. The particular facts and circumstances of each individual's case will have much influence in determining what the best course of action is for any particular person.

Once an applicant is perceived to have credibility issues, however, those can be difficult to overcome unless and until there is solid, objective proof for every aspect, every element of the application.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,317
3,074
h3a3j6 said:
This is really horrible... "no time frame provided". I really can't understand how this is even remotely possible. What kind of service is being provided here?

nkam said:
@Depanbill,
Would you please make an in input or refer to links to that from your long experience and involvement when you have some time..any judgements that addresses multiple applications involving withdrawel and reapply or refusal and reapply?

Related to this tread, are there stories or reports of applicants who got citizenship and were successful in second applications after withdrawing first one?

thanks for your time and input..
While I do not recall seeing any recent reports, yes, over time there have been occasional reports (here and in other forums) by posters saying they had been scheduled for or already taken the oath on a second application.

The circumstances vary. Best I can recall, most were applicants who voluntarily withdrew the first application and then applied again. But at least some were refused the first time around.

Some even reported a faster than usual timeline, even though clearly a previously withdrawn or refused application is likely to draw additional scrutiny. Again, how it goes varies from one person's situation to the next. One who reported had a shortfall under the 3/4 rule, went to the CJ hearing, the CJ persuaded him to withdraw and re-apply given his stronger evidence of presence after applying, and that is what he did, and the second application went very smoothly and fast.

I am no expert. What you quoted from a previous post of mine already says most of what I have to offer. Especially that this is a very individual specific matter, and the best course of action depends on many factors particular to the individual's own situation.

Generally an applicant who was not qualified, or under the 3/4 had a very weak case, may want to consider withdrawing. For example, someone with a big shortfall who applied under the 3/4 rule may be in a position to re-apply based on solidly meeting the requirements.

But qualified applicants are not likely to gain much by withdrawing. Whatever the issues were, those issues will still need to be resolved.

Obviously, any credibility issues which have arisen will continue to be an issue for a new application.