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Winnipeg - 2017 Citizenship Applicants

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,294
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Now, due to my extensive list of trips out of Canada, the officer said they will have to double check with CBSA but it shouldn’t take more than a couple days and shouldn’t delay the process. I just hope CBSA has recorded my entries appropriately. Does anyone have any experience with this?
Nothing changed as of Friday. I just realized I made two minor mistakes on my physical presence list. for two trips I entered in Canada shortly after midnight, so i should've used the next day's date on the calculator. And I didn't send with much cushion as well - 1465 days.
I hope this doesn't get me in trouble.
Overall I tend to concur in the observation by user3000, that two minor errors related to post-midnight arrivals in Canada are NOT likely to be much if any problem.

That noted, there are some caveats, some nuances, and the situation offers a good illustration why it simply makes more sense to wait and apply with a healthy margin. It does not make sense to rush making the application at the risk of it taking a lot longer to become a citizen, and particularly if there is a risk of falling short and being denied.

Before wandering too deep into the weeds in a longer observation about this, it warrants emphasizing that particularly those who have traveled abroad rather often should WAIT longer and apply with a bigger margin. In this regard, it is not just about being accurate versus the risk of making a mistake (or two or more). There are risks even if the applicant submits a perfect application, and all the dates are precisely accurate: if IRCC merely perceives a possibility, a mere possibility the applicant's account is not correct, that is a reason for IRCC to more thoroughly verify the applicant's actual presence, and that could lead to significant inconvenience and long delays. And of course the closer the applicant's accounting is to the absolute minimum, the more IRCC may have an obligation to make further inquiry and engage in non-routine processing in order to verify the applicant for sure met the absolute minimum. Remember, if IRCC is not confident that the applicant was present at least 1460 days, IRCC is required to deny citizenship.

I do not mean to paint a dark picture for the OP. Not at all.

I am posting these more expansive observations, rather, to highlight the risks the OP has taken, and that it makes no sense to take these risks. We all make mistakes. And, moreover, it does not require a mistake for IRCC to question the applicant's accounting of travel abroad.

Spread the message: margin, margin, margin (second only to following the instructions and providing complete and truthful information).




The longer, more in-depth observations (FWIW):

Ordinarily one or two minor errors alone do not have much of an impact.

IRCC recognizes that all of us make mistakes (regarding which, it warrants noting, those who believe they did not make any mistakes tend to have made the biggest mistakes). And thus allows leeway to applicants for some degree of error.

Of course, the more errors there are, the higher the risk they will have some negative impact.

Of course, the more substantial the error is, the higher the risk there will be some negative impact.

The scope of what IRCC can allow, however, does not give IRCC discretion to grant citizenship if the applicant's physical presence is determined to be 1459 or fewer days. The 1460 days minimum is an absolute requirement.

And it is IRCC's mandate to be sure that the citizenship applicant has in fact met this absolute minimum, that the applicant is not so much as one day short.


The practical scenario; the OP's scenario:

I wince and shake my head and really do not understand why so many rush the citizenship application. For the vast majority, sure a week or ten days extra will suffice, but waiting to have a month margin makes so much sense whereas applying sooner makes virtually no sense . . . gaining a few weeks upfront at a much higher risk of significant delays in the process really does not make any sense.

Just the extent to which a margin leads to less worry makes waiting to build a month margin the far, far better choice. Anxiety is not a good thing.

But sure, OK, many apply sooner rather than later, more than a foolish few with virtually no margin, and many with less than a week's margin.

Then an applicant, like the OP, realizes there was some error.

As I noted, one or two minor errors will ordinarily have virtually NO impact (unless it overtly reduces the physical presence to 1459 or fewer days, in which case IRCC has no choice but to treat the application as a presence-case).

There are good odds that IRCC will not even take note of one or two actual-next-day-arrival-errors in the presence calculation.

Even though generally the best thing to do is to correct an error as soon as it is noticed, errors like this can wait until the interview, at the least, and even then, as an applicant I would be tempted to not bring it up, but prepared to recognize and acknowledge it if doing so is called for by a question.

The OP is past that stage. Interview done. IRCC apparently following up by examining the OP's CBSA travel history.

It is impossible to forecast what IRCC will perceive in this process. Frankly, the interviewer's comment about having to check the CBSA history may have been mostly to observe how the applicant would react, and it is possible that IRCC does not actually access the CBSA history.

Assuming there is a CBSA travel history examination and comparison to the applicant's reported travel dates:
-- maybe IRCC will not even take note of one or two actual-next-day-arrival-errors in the presence calculation (oath to then be scheduled)
-- if IRCC does take note of these, maybe that will still have NO impact at all (again, then the oath will be scheduled), or
-- IRCC might then further examine the application, and could send the applicant --
-- -- a CIT 0520 request and specifically request a record of movement from one or more other countries, or
-- -- a CIT 0171 full blown RQ

If IRCC identifies some discrepancies and perceives the possibility (emphasis on just the perception of a possibility) the applicant's account is in error by enough to question whether the applicant for sure had at least 1460 days presence, that will most likely lead to at least the CIT 0520 including a request for record of movement from one or more countries, and quite likely lead to full blown RQ and eventually a referral of the case to a Citizenship Judge.

Obviously, applying with just 1465 days dramatically increases the risk that IRCC noticing even a couple one-day errors could trigger RQ-lite (CIT 0520) or full blown RQ, and potentially even put the application outcome at risk.

Again, I do not mean to be painting too dark a picture. If IRCC overlooks (somewhat deliberately or otherwise) a couple one-day discrepancies, which it very well might do, or takes note and considers those but nonetheless affirmatively determines that the applicant was present at least 1460 days (for 1463 days for example), all should go well and the applicant should be on his or her way to taking the oath in the relatively near future. There are probably very good odds that this will be the way things go.

Still, better to have minimized the risks otherwise upfront. Get those dates right. Wait to have a good margin before applying.
 

user3000

Hero Member
Mar 3, 2016
324
37
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Overall I tend to concur in the observation by user3000, that two minor errors related to post-midnight arrivals in Canada are NOT likely to be much if any problem.

That noted, there are some caveats, some nuances, and the situation offers a good illustration why it simply makes more sense to wait and apply with a healthy margin. It does not make sense to rush making the application at the risk of it taking a lot longer to become a citizen, and particularly if there is a risk of falling short and being denied.

Before wandering too deep into the weeds in a longer observation about this, it warrants emphasizing that particularly those who have traveled abroad rather often should WAIT longer and apply with a bigger margin. In this regard, it is not just about being accurate versus the risk of making a mistake (or two or more). There are risks even if the applicant submits a perfect application, and all the dates are precisely accurate: if IRCC merely perceives a possibility, a mere possibility the applicant's account is not correct, that is a reason for IRCC to more thoroughly verify the applicant's actual presence, and that could lead to significant inconvenience and long delays. And of course the closer the applicant's accounting is to the absolute minimum, the more IRCC may have an obligation to make further inquiry and engage in non-routine processing in order to verify the applicant for sure met the absolute minimum. Remember, if IRCC is not confident that the applicant was present at least 1460 days, IRCC is required to deny citizenship.

I do not mean to paint a dark picture for the OP. Not at all.

I am posting these more expansive observations, rather, to highlight the risks the OP has taken, and that it makes no sense to take these risks. We all make mistakes. And, moreover, it does not require a mistake for IRCC to question the applicant's accounting of travel abroad.

Spread the message: margin, margin, margin (second only to following the instructions and providing complete and truthful information).




The longer, more in-depth observations (FWIW):

Ordinarily one or two minor errors alone do not have much of an impact.

IRCC recognizes that all of us make mistakes (regarding which, it warrants noting, those who believe they did not make any mistakes tend to have made the biggest mistakes). And thus allows leeway to applicants for some degree of error.

Of course, the more errors there are, the higher the risk they will have some negative impact.

Of course, the more substantial the error is, the higher the risk there will be some negative impact.

The scope of what IRCC can allow, however, does not give IRCC discretion to grant citizenship if the applicant's physical presence is determined to be 1459 or fewer days. The 1460 days minimum is an absolute requirement.

And it is IRCC's mandate to be sure that the citizenship applicant has in fact met this absolute minimum, that the applicant is not so much as one day short.


The practical scenario; the OP's scenario:

I wince and shake my head and really do not understand why so many rush the citizenship application. For the vast majority, sure a week or ten days extra will suffice, but waiting to have a month margin makes so much sense whereas applying sooner makes virtually no sense . . . gaining a few weeks upfront at a much higher risk of significant delays in the process really does not make any sense.

Just the extent to which a margin leads to less worry makes waiting to build a month margin the far, far better choice. Anxiety is not a good thing.

But sure, OK, many apply sooner rather than later, more than a foolish few with virtually no margin, and many with less than a week's margin.

Then an applicant, like the OP, realizes there was some error.

As I noted, one or two minor errors will ordinarily have virtually NO impact (unless it overtly reduces the physical presence to 1459 or fewer days, in which case IRCC has no choice but to treat the application as a presence-case).

There are good odds that IRCC will not even take note of one or two actual-next-day-arrival-errors in the presence calculation.

Even though generally the best thing to do is to correct an error as soon as it is noticed, errors like this can wait until the interview, at the least, and even then, as an applicant I would be tempted to not bring it up, but prepared to recognize and acknowledge it if doing so is called for by a question.

The OP is past that stage. Interview done. IRCC apparently following up by examining the OP's CBSA travel history.

It is impossible to forecast what IRCC will perceive in this process. Frankly, the interviewer's comment about having to check the CBSA history may have been mostly to observe how the applicant would react, and it is possible that IRCC does not actually access the CBSA history.

Assuming there is a CBSA travel history examination and comparison to the applicant's reported travel dates:
-- maybe IRCC will not even take note of one or two actual-next-day-arrival-errors in the presence calculation (oath to then be scheduled)
-- if IRCC does take note of these, maybe that will still have NO impact at all (again, then the oath will be scheduled), or
-- IRCC might then further examine the application, and could send the applicant --
-- -- a CIT 0520 request and specifically request a record of movement from one or more other countries, or
-- -- a CIT 0171 full blown RQ

If IRCC identifies some discrepancies and perceives the possibility (emphasis on just the perception of a possibility) the applicant's account is in error by enough to question whether the applicant for sure had at least 1460 days presence, that will most likely lead to at least the CIT 0520 including a request for record of movement from one or more countries, and quite likely lead to full blown RQ and eventually a referral of the case to a Citizenship Judge.

Obviously, applying with just 1465 days dramatically increases the risk that IRCC noticing even a couple one-day errors could trigger RQ-lite (CIT 0520) or full blown RQ, and potentially even put the application outcome at risk.

Again, I do not mean to be painting too dark a picture. If IRCC overlooks (somewhat deliberately or otherwise) a couple one-day discrepancies, which it very well might do, or takes note and considers those but nonetheless affirmatively determines that the applicant was present at least 1460 days (for 1463 days for example), all should go well and the applicant should be on his or her way to taking the oath in the relatively near future. There are probably very good odds that this will be the way things go.

Still, better to have minimized the risks otherwise upfront. Get those dates right. Wait to have a good margin before applying.
Thank you for your detailed explanation and advise.

I've a different question regarding this and would like your advise. I've ordered CBSA travel history and US CBP travel history before filing my application and all of my entry/exits were accurate. I've my test and interview at this same location in couple of weeks, in case if the Citizenship Officer wants to check my CBSA travel history, is it okay if I tell them I've my CBSA history and US CBP history and provide them a copy ? Please advise.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,294
3,059
Thank you for your detailed explanation and advise.

I've a different question regarding this and would like your advise. I've ordered CBSA travel history and US CBP travel history before filing my application and all of my entry/exits were accurate. I've my test and interview at this same location in couple of weeks, in case if the Citizenship Officer wants to check my CBSA travel history, is it okay if I tell them I've my CBSA history and US CBP history and provide them a copy ? Please advise.
I am not an expert and I am not qualified to offer personal advice.

I can observe that many applicants take a few extra items of proof with them to the interview, and while most do not get an opportunity to present any of that, some have reported they did, and they felt it made a positive difference.

I really do not know. In general it appears to me that the processing agent and citizenship officer is usually satisfied with the applicant and application, and the interview is a matter of doing due diligence. Nothing additional is needed. Or, for those few cases in which the processing agent or citizenship officer has, going into the interview, some questions about the applicant, it is still best for the applicant to simply, straight-forwardly, and truthfully answer the interviewer's questions.

There is always a risk that having obtained the CBSA travel history and the U.S. history as well, in advance, might appear, to a processing agent, to indicate an applicant with something to worry about. And thus be wondering why that is and go looking. But if the interviewer has a question for which these would provide an answer, and you have them, perhaps presenting them will indeed avoid a formal request for them and some delay in processing the application.

That is, I really do not know. But I do think it is worth emphasizing that overall, usually either IRCC has some question and doubt, in which case the more formal requests for documents are likely anyway, or IRCC does not have any significant concerns and all will go smoothly so long as the applicant's answers to questions fit the case . . . and I think the latter is by far the most common scenario, especially among the tens of thousands of applicants who never come to a forum like this.
 

user3000

Hero Member
Mar 3, 2016
324
37
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Pre-Assessed..
I am not an expert and I am not qualified to offer personal advice.

I can observe that many applicants take a few extra items of proof with them to the interview, and while most do not get an opportunity to present any of that, some have reported they did, and they felt it made a positive difference.

I really do not know. In general it appears to me that the processing agent and citizenship officer is usually satisfied with the applicant and application, and the interview is a matter of doing due diligence. Nothing additional is needed. Or, for those few cases in which the processing agent or citizenship officer has, going into the interview, some questions about the applicant, it is still best for the applicant to simply, straight-forwardly, and truthfully answer the interviewer's questions.

There is always a risk that having obtained the CBSA travel history and the U.S. history as well, in advance, might appear, to a processing agent, to indicate an applicant with something to worry about. And thus be wondering why that is and go looking. But if the interviewer has a question for which these would provide an answer, and you have them, perhaps presenting them will indeed avoid a formal request for them and some delay in processing the application.

That is, I really do not know. But I do think it is worth emphasizing that overall, usually either IRCC has some question and doubt, in which case the more formal requests for documents are likely anyway, or IRCC does not have any significant concerns and all will go smoothly so long as the applicant's answers to questions fit the case . . . and I think the latter is by far the most common scenario, especially among the tens of thousands of applicants who never come to a forum like this.
Thanks for your response.

In my case, I requested the CBSA travel history as there were no entry stamps on the passport other than the stamp on the landing day. Every time, I swiped the PR card at the entry port and I just wanted to make sure the entries were recorded correctly, and they were. In fact it helped me to correct one of the entry date on my application which I arrived after mid night.

In case of US travel history, all the entries were stamped correctly except onetime where they allowed me enter with existing I94 without stamping on the passport as I returned back to US within 4 days from Canada. I just wanted make sure this entry to US was recorded and it was in in the CBP travel history.

Because of these two travel reports, I'm fully confident with my travel dates reported in the Citizenship application. My concern was if the Officer verifies all the entry/exit stamps on the passport to match with the application and asks for one of the missing entry stamp to US, I would have to explain that I was allowed to enter US on the existing I94 without stamping on the passport and also I could present the US travel history to the Officer to crosscheck ?
 

Stef.

Hero Member
Apr 5, 2017
603
164
A bigger margin probably saved me two days ago...I forgot one trip in my extensive travel list but the agent said due to my large margin she saw no problem with it. Got DM one day later.

I believe it is really important to have a good buffer, preferably at least a month, particularly if you travel a lot.
 

rafaelrms

Full Member
Sep 30, 2012
22
6
I didn't forget any trips - As far as I'm concerned the only two mistakes were those that I've entered Canada shortly after midnight (While commencing my trip on the previous day).
Total number of trips was 31. Most of trips lasted 1-3 days, saving for longer vacation trips and one longer business trip.

There were a few reasons that I wanted to apply soon, one of them being that I wanted to build up some buffer back in 2015, then the government changed the rule (time spent on a work permit no longer counted) and I had to wait until now to apply.

I'm not super concerned about the inquiry/audit - If that lengthens the process, so be it. I do have trip itineraries and after this mess up I gathered all the actual flight landing times in Canada (https://beta.flightstats.com/historical-flight/search if someone ever needs it). My biggest concern is if they bug with the 2 dates not being accurate because of the after midnight arrival in Canada and deny the application. Even deducting those 2 trips I should still have more than the 1460 days.

Interview was Thursday morning, as of Monday morning, nothing has changed on E-cas.

BTW, nothing has changed for my partner as well, and she had a buffer of about 43 days.
 
Last edited:

Stef.

Hero Member
Apr 5, 2017
603
164
Don't worry about the 2 dates after midnight. Not only did zi forget a whole trip but I also made those mistakes...no problem in my interview.
 
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user3000

Hero Member
Mar 3, 2016
324
37
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
I didn't forget any trips - As far as I'm concerned the only two mistakes were those that I've entered Canada shortly after midnight (While commencing my trip on the previous day).
Total number of trips was 31. Most of trips lasted 1-3 days, saving for longer vacation trips and one longer business trip.

There were a few reasons that I wanted to apply soon, one of them being that I wanted to build up some buffer back in 2015, then the government changed the rule (time spent on a work permit no longer counted) and I had to wait until now to apply.

I'm not super concerned about the inquiry/audit - If that lengthens the process, so be it. I do have trip itineraries and after this mess up I gathered all the actual flight landing times in Canada (https://beta.flightstats.com/historical-flight/search if someone ever needs it). My biggest concern is if they bug with the 2 dates not being accurate because of the after midnight arrival in Canada and deny the application. Even deducting those 2 trips I should still have more than the 1460 days.

Interview was Thursday morning, as of Monday morning, nothing has changed on E-cas.

BTW, nothing has changed for my partner as well, and she had a buffer of about 43 days.
I'm sure you should be okay, they might be checking your CBSA entries and previously one of the user from Winnipeg reported that it took 30 days for them to verify and update the status to DM.
They haven't even updated my E-Cas for Test invite. To your surprise, you might even get the oath letters in your mail box without E-Cas update. It happened to one of my friend here in Winnipeg.
 

celine12

Full Member
Feb 5, 2013
42
1
I haven't posted in a while. Got 20/20 on the test I took on Jul 27th. It was fairly easy as long as you've read the book. Also, those online exams ( citizenshipcounts) helped a lot. The interview was quick, they just asked about - employment and any future travel plans. I checked e-cas today and it is now Decision Made status. So hopefully I get the invite soon. Hope it all goes smooth for everybody! :)
 

user3000

Hero Member
Mar 3, 2016
324
37
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
I haven't posted in a while. Got 20/20 on the test I took on Jul 27th. It was fairly easy as long as you've read the book. Also, those online exams ( citizenshipcounts) helped a lot. The interview was quick, they just asked about - employment and any future travel plans. I checked e-cas today and it is now Decision Made status. So hopefully I get the invite soon. Hope it all goes smooth for everybody! :)
Thanks for the update, all the best for your oath.
 

marcher

Hero Member
Mar 30, 2016
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