why offering immigration to forigen nationals when they alread have skilledworkr

[kateg]

People commenting that Canada should not promote immigration should introspect that they have immigrated to Canada as well in the past and now can not complain about the situation.

That's only hypocritical if they think that immigrants shouldn't come at all.

I'm in favour of qualified immigrants coming, to meet economic needs. I worked hard to be a qualified candidate, and now that I'm here, I think that Canada should protect Canadians by only allowing qualified candidates.

Who better to complain about the situation? We, more than anyone, know that there are people who come here through deception, or who don't meet the requirements. We are the ones most competing with the new immigrants for jobs, and most affected if Canada brings too many immigrants and depresses wages.

Those who haven't been through the program have less room to complain than those who did.

 

[kateg]

all i say when some one paid 4 years of tax with above average salary .. he contributed to ur economy and now u say u dont qualify to be here .. kindly leave .. does not make sense ..

With a few exceptions (such as the CPP), he received the same services as other Canadian residents do. He pays the taxes, and he gets the roads, the clean water, the agricultural inspections, transport management, and the tens of thousands of other services offered to all Canadian residents.

 

[mead]

If you look, though, 88.5% of the people selected under express entry live in Canada. How many more do you want? 99%?
only want to be one of those 88.5% if thats accurate percentage. ur not the one giving so why do u care how much we want? why keep everyone is the same pool? both experienced and recent graduates have different skill sets. I feel CEC should be left out of express entry.

When people come as temporary immigrants - be it temporary students, or temporary foreign workers, they run the risk of being sent home. That's the temporary part of "temporary". Someone who comes as a seasonal labourer is not needed full-time, and they are offered a chance to earn some money as temporary immigrants. They get what they were promised.
well thats not accurate before jan 2015 CEC was a sure way to get PR and thats what attracted me. But they changed it without telling us in advance that we wont get 600 points for the job we currently have without getting LMIA. also to point out there is no such thing as temporary immigrant.

Students also receive what they were promised. They pay for an education in Canada, and they get an education in Canada.
I am guessing ur not from a third world country u havent seen how colleges pay money to agents so they send students to the colleges in canada. its all a big ponzi scheme.


As for the foreigners with fake work experience, CIC tries to catch it as best they can. All it takes is one person getting caught to rat out the rest, and we may see P/R and Citizenship revoked for others using the same service.
well again I feel that u havent lived in a third world country hence no idea what ur talking about. no offence to anyone but in countries like india and pakistan fake experience is easy . I have personally seen people getting fake experience from relatives etc.

 

[mead]

That's only hypocritical if they think that immigrants shouldn't come at all.

I'm in favour of qualified immigrants coming, to meet economic needs. I worked hard to be a qualified candidate, and now that I'm here, I think that Canada should protect Canadians by only allowing qualified candidates.

Who better to complain about the situation? We, more than anyone, know that there are people who come here through deception, or who don't meet the requirements. We are the ones most competing with the new immigrants for jobs, and most affected if Canada brings too many immigrants and depresses wages.

Those who haven't been through the program have less room to complain than those who did.

thats hypocritical now that u have PR u want to judge other? why u feel ur special status will be lost if more immigrants come in? who decided what qualified is and isnt.... everyone has some sort of skills. just because u got PR doesnt me ur more qualified. it only means ur lucky and thank god for that as things change fast. Do feel compassion dont be arrogant as u received PR.

 

[cic.gc.ca]

If you look, though, 88.5% of the people selected under express entry live in Canada. How many more do you want? 99%?
only want to be one of those 88.5% if thats accurate percentage. ur not the one giving so why do u care how much we want? why keep everyone is the same pool? both experienced and recent graduates have different skill sets. I feel CEC should be left out of express entry.

When people come as temporary immigrants - be it temporary students, or temporary foreign workers, they run the risk of being sent home. That's the temporary part of "temporary". Someone who comes as a seasonal labourer is not needed full-time, and they are offered a chance to earn some money as temporary immigrants. They get what they were promised.
well thats not accurate before jan 2015 CEC was a sure way to get PR and thats what attracted me. But they changed it without telling us in advance that we wont get 600 points for the job we currently have without getting LMIA. also to point out there is no such thing as temporary immigrant.

Students also receive what they were promised. They pay for an education in Canada, and they get an education in Canada.
I am guessing ur not from a third world country u havent seen how colleges pay money to agents so they send students to the colleges in canada. its all a big ponzi scheme.


As for the foreigners with fake work experience, CIC tries to catch it as best they can. All it takes is one person getting caught to rat out the rest, and we may see P/R and Citizenship revoked for others using the same service.
well again I feel that u havent lived in a third world country hence no idea what ur talking about. no offence to anyone but in countries like india and pakistan fake experience is easy . I have personally seen people getting fake experience from relatives etc.

Agreed with you..

 

[mf4361]

That's only hypocritical if they think that immigrants shouldn't come at all.

I'm in favour of qualified immigrants coming, to meet economic needs. I worked hard to be a qualified candidate, and now that I'm here, I think that Canada should protect Canadians by only allowing qualified candidates.

Who better to complain about the situation? We, more than anyone, know that there are people who come here through deception, or who don't meet the requirements. We are the ones most competing with the new immigrants for jobs, and most affected if Canada brings too many immigrants and depresses wages.

Those who haven't been through the program have less room to complain than those who did.

we are unanimous that Canada should take in "qualified" immigrants. But what is "qualified" is of anyone's opinion.

It is hypocritical to set the "qualified" bar low enough for you to get PR, and high enough for everyone else.

 

[mead]

we are unanimous that Canada should take in "qualified" immigrants. But what is "qualified" is of anyone's opinion.

It is hypocritical to set the "qualified" bar low enough for you to get PR, and high enough for everyone else.

very well said

 

[mead]

I'm in favour of qualified immigrants coming, to meet economic needs. I worked hard to be a qualified candidate, and now that I'm here, I think that Canada should protect Canadians by only allowing qualified candidates.

what a load of horse shit....u worked hard and we didnt? we r sitting on our asses hoping to get PR without any hardwork? what hard work can one do other than language proficiency? I would like to know what hard work did u do?

 

[kateg]

only want to be one of those 88.5% if thats accurate percentage.

It's from CIC. You're not going to get more accurate.

ur not the one giving so why do u care how much we want?

As a Canadian Permanent Resident, I care what my government does. I also try to educate where I can, and it seems absurd for someone to complain that the government doesn't do enough for immigrants in Canada when 88.5% of the immigrants they bring in are in Canada.

why keep everyone is the same pool? both experienced and recent graduates have different skill sets. I feel CEC should be left out of express entry.

Because there are only so many slots for immigrants, so Canada should use them wisely. I've seen many of the foreign students and workers here in Canada, and I assure you there are better candidates to be had. The CRS system is trying to select for them.

well thats not accurate before jan 2015 CEC was a sure way to get PR and thats what attracted me. But they changed it without telling us in advance that we wont get 600 points for the job we currently have without getting LMIA.

It was a way to potentially get PR. I came to Canada before January 1. My study permit states, and I quote, "MUST LEAVE CANADA BY 30 SEP 2016".

It was never automatic, it was never promised, and there are plenty of students who for various reasons were ineligible to receive permanent residency. You could apply for permanent residency, and they gave some consideration to the fact you were a student. Now, they give that consideration in the form of an open work permit (which foreign immigrants can't get), which lets you get Canadian work experience (which gets you points a foreign immigrant can't get), and let you qualify for CEC (which saves you from POF and needing to 67 points on the FSW scale), again which foreign immigrants can't get.

It's not their fault if people took advantage of a system in the past, and can no longer do so. They didn't tell students "be a student, and you can have permanent residency". What they told students was "you must leave when you conclude your studies". Now the students complain when they are being asked to do the very thing they promised to do.

also to point out there is no such thing as temporary immigrant.

It depends on the specific definition used; Webster's, for example, includes the definition "to enter and usually become established", which could arguably include temporary residence. Nonetheless, I'll cede the point on that one.

I am guessing ur not from a third world country u havent seen how colleges pay money to agents so they send students to the colleges in canada. its all a big ponzi scheme.

No, I'm not from a third world country. If (as you say) it's a big Ponzi scheme, then why should the government of Canada endorse and encourage it? Shouldn't they do everything in their power to shut it down and fight it?

well again I feel that u havent lived in a third world country hence no idea what ur talking about. no offence to anyone but in countries like india and pakistan fake experience is easy . I have personally seen people getting fake experience from relatives etc.

I know exactly how easy it is to fake experience. My comments were more to the services that provide verification. If you use a service, there is a possibility that someone else using the service will get in trouble and you will to. That wouldn't apply to people using relatives.

If things are as bad as you say for third world countries, with the work experience being meaningless, and the students being part of Ponzi schemes, then perhaps Canada shouldn't accept work experience or studies from third world nations, particularly given some of the cheating that goes on in some of the foreign schools. If that were the case, they would need to come to Canada and get Canadian education (at an accredited school), then go get Canadian work experience (perhaps with a PGWP). That would be a bit more difficult to fake, wouldn't it?

 

[mead]

No, I'm not from a third world country. If (as you say) it's a big Ponzi scheme, then why should the government of Canada endorse and encourage it? Shouldn't they do everything in their power to shut it down and fight it?
yes they should canada should not encourage these colleges and not give out study permit to anyone . however thats not the case as canada needs the 3 time tuition that international students pay to subsidize its canadian students .

I know exactly how easy it is to fake experience. My comments were more to the services that provide verification. If you use a service, there is a possibility that someone else using the service will get in trouble and you will to. That wouldn't apply to people using relatives.
since ur not from thrid world countries u will not understand . its not a service u basicly pay to a legitimate univerity/company clerk and get what ever u want so it comes from official source.

If things are as bad as you say for third world countries, with the work experience being meaningless, and the students being part of Ponzi schemes, then perhaps Canada shouldn't accept work experience or studies from third world nations, particularly given some of the cheating that goes on in some of the foreign schools. If that were the case, they would need to come to Canada and get Canadian education (at an accredited school), then go get Canadian work experience (perhaps with a PGWP). That would be a bit more difficult to fake, wouldn't it?
exactly my point we who have studied here have proven that we r not fakes because our education is real and canadian and our experience is real and canadian. if canada wants people they sure should get it from where ever they want but just dont make us compete with wrong people.

just want to point out i dont want to offend anyone as I am also from a third world country.

 

[kateg]

we are unanimous that Canada should take in "qualified" immigrants. But what is "qualified" is of anyone's opinion.

It is hypocritical to set the "qualified" bar low enough for you to get PR, and high enough for everyone else.

I don't. Canada set the bar (at what I would argue has been a reasonable level), and I worked to meet it.

As for qualified being "anyone's opinion", there are objective measures that can be used, and the government is attempting to do so. It's relatively straightforward to (for example) use tax data with immigration data to determine what factors tend to correlate to economic success. Surveys and criminal history can also be incorporated.

Canada needs immigration because the economic system we use depends on growth, and we have sufficient land to continue that growth. The birth rate is insufficient to meet those needs. Which immigrants are "qualified" can be as simple as trying to find a measure that will reliably predict economic success, where economic success is defined as the immigrant maintaining or increasing the standard of living of Canadians.

To achieve this, they look at a number of factors. Language barriers make higher level employment difficult, hence the language tests. Job displacement (competing for jobs) drives down wages, so they give much more points for LMIAs. Age affects the number of years of being a taxpayer (versus a retiree, with the attendant increase in demand on health and social services), so age gets points. Education tends to correlate well with both integration and economic performance, and so on.

This isn't just a mad system built by people who have no clue what they are doing. The system is designed to select those who bring value to Canada.

If (as you suggest) the bar is high enough to both include me and exclude everyone else, there must be a reason. There's no special "Kate" metric on the CRS - I compete under the same rules as everyone else.

Try a thought experiment - suppose you wanted to make a bar that excludes me but includes everyone else. How would you do it? What objective measure that correlates positively with success in Canada could you select that would exclude me?

 

[kateg]

what a load of horse *censored word*....u worked hard and we didnt? we r sitting on our asses hoping to get PR without any hardwork? what hard work can one do other than language proficiency? I would like to know what hard work did u do?

As someone who wanted to immigrate, I worked to get my skillset and work history as competitive as possible. I also did what it took to find an employer who was qualified for an LMIA, and helping him learn what was needed to qualify and apply for one.

It's not enough to work hard, it requires working hard in a manner that will bring success. I can work really hard doing an engine rebuild on my car, but it won't accomplish anything if it's out of gas and the battery is dead.

My goal was to immigrate to Canada. If that took getting a Canadian Ph.D, I would have done that. If it required starting a Canadian business, I was ready to do that. I've started learning French. If it required switching careers, I would have done that too.

I was a full-time student, a full-time worker (telecommute for another country, which does not require a work permit), and a full-time worker (under a LMIA). I was working 110+ hours a week doing what it took to immigrate to Canada. I've spent hundreds of hours reviewing immigration decisions, ministerial instructions, legislation, and hundreds more reading through all that this forum has to offer. I've also spent time networking with those in the immigration and business development industry - consultants, as well as federal and provincial authorities.

 

[mead]

I don't. Canada set the bar (at what I would argue has been a reasonable level), and I worked to meet it.
please explain what did u work on to meet the bar?

As for qualified being "anyone's opinion", there are objective measures that can be used, and the government is attempting to do so. It's relatively straightforward to (for example) use tax data with immigration data to determine what factors tend to correlate to economic success. Surveys and criminal history can also be incorporated.
so now ur saying we chose wrong occupation and u selected the right one? also r u saying our history is not right we r criminals?

Canada needs immigration because the economic system we use depends on growth, and we have sufficient land to continue that growth. The birth rate is insufficient to meet those needs. Which immigrants are "qualified" can be as simple as trying to find a measure that will reliably predict economic success, where economic success is defined as the immigrant maintaining or increasing the standard of living of Canadians.
there can be various indicators but i dont see anyone in express entry other than language proficiency.

To achieve this, they look at a number of factors. Language barriers make higher level employment difficult, hence the language tests. Job displacement (competing for jobs) drives down wages, so they give much more points for LMIAs. Age affects the number of years of being a taxpayer (versus a retiree, with the attendant increase in demand on health and social services), so age gets points. Education tends to correlate well with both integration and economic performance, and so on.
there is nothing one can do if their profession is not something that canada wants at this point in time.. they r out of luck. no hard work there

This isn't just a mad system built by people who have no clue what they are doing. The system is designed to select those who bring value to Canada.
thats exactly what it is mad system built by someone who doesnt know how third world countries work. there will be consultancies poping in third world countries to do just that fake everything.

If (as you suggest) the bar is high enough to both include me and exclude everyone else, there must be a reason. There's no special "Kate" metric on the CRS - I compete under the same rules as everyone else.
yes ur lucky . I dont know what ur situation is but do point out what is wrong with us? since u think we dont measure up to the system

Try a thought experiment - suppose you wanted to make a bar that excludes me but includes everyone else. How would you do it? What objective measure that correlates positively with success in Canada could you select that would exclude me?
dont know may be we dont know ur background. r u a cook as I have seen a cook get ITA and a nurse struggling for 400 points. so u saying cooks r needed more than nurses in canada and will succeed more because the system say so?

 

[Hansdza]

The definition of "qualified" immigrant is undoubtedly debatable.... This is my question. from the following can you rank the following options based on its "quality".

A. Worker with LMIA in food processing plant with minimum English and high school diploma
B. Worker in Skilled work field (engineer, doctor, scientist,) with tens of years of experience (hence old) from developed countries and non Canadian exp with perfect english
C. Worker with recent canadian degree but got laid off due to downturn of oil and gas business. Only have 1 year exp with no foreign exp. English moderate
D. Worker with trade certificate in Canada (e.g. electrician) but currently has no job. No Canadian degree, English moderate
E. Worker who just graduated from MIT with honors and currently working in Silicon Valley as Computer Programmer with 1-2 yrs exp, PErfect english but no canadian EXp
F. Worker who work in fast food restaurant as food counter manager and received provincial nominee certificate

I am myself very confused how to rank those workers based on their quality according to EE criteria... Thus "deserve" the right to get ITA and PR based on their quality

Please help me...

 

[kateg]

No, I'm not from a third world country. If (as you say) it's a big Ponzi scheme, then why should the government of Canada endorse and encourage it? Shouldn't they do everything in their power to shut it down and fight it?
yes they should canada should not encourage these colleges and not give out study permit to anyone . however thats not the case as canada needs the 3 time tuition that international students pay to subsidize its canadian students .

If Canada simply stops giving P/R to students, they can keep the tuition but not get the fraud. There's little point in committing fraud at that point to come, but those who come to learn can still do so.

since ur not from thrid world countries u will not understand . its not a service u basicly pay to a legitimate univerity/company clerk and get what ever u want so it comes from official source.

That's a fair point. In the States, that will get you thrown in prison. It would be harder to detect that, and is a reason to give less weight to foreign credentials. CIC doesn't want to be seen as racist, though.

exactly my point we who have studied here have proven that we r not fakes because our education is real and canadian and our experience is real and canadian. if canada wants people they sure should get it from where ever they want but just dont make us compete with wrong people.

I can see your point there. Do you think that there should be a list of "approved" countries for education and work experience, with Canada included? That way, someone educated in Germany, or the US, or Canada gets the points, but people from less trustworthy countries don't?

One possibility would be to accept provincial qualifications after exams, like they do for some fields now. You take an approved comprehensive exam in order to get the points, one that's run by a trustworthy organization. People from certain countries can use their existing credentials, as they come from places with higher standards.

Unfortunately, when I see stories like this, or images like this, I can't help but get angry. I've spent decades of my life working hard to get where I am, and it bothers me to no end when someone lies so they can come here and make things worse.