why are people from outside canada favored by CIC than PGWP holders?

[canadadreamming]

International students who pay fee and tax when staying here are treated worse than a skilled worker with dubious skills and education from who know what countries? Where is the justice?

 

[YamPower]

I completely disagree. It seems that PGWP holders can fall into both FSW and CEC categories and there are different quotas for both. That increases their chances of being selected because they fall into two streams rather than one.

That said, PR is not a right, it's a privilege. How is CIC favoring people outside Canada?! They've leveled the playing field. The tuition fees are for the studies you completed, not for automatic PR or an automatic 600 extra points so you can be almost assured of getting ITA.

Canada does not owe me PR because I have a fairly high FSW EE score (465) just as it doesn't owe PGWP holders anything because they have Canadian education.

In fact, Canada is quite generous to offer such a work permit in the first place. I don't know that there are many other developed countries that do that. \

But maybe I'd feel differently if I were in the PGWP holders' situation.

 

[jes_ON]

International students who pay fee and tax when staying here are treated worse than a skilled worker with dubious skills and education from who know what countries? Where is the justice?

It seems you confuse being an international student with being a highly skilled worker. Not sure why you think those from overseas have "dubious skills and education," when they are sufficiently qualified and desired by employers to get the LMIA. If you were as qualified, you could get the LMIA too.

I know that CIC was promoting education as a path to immigration and it seems unfair that they changed the rules on you. But before, people were coming here, paying for a 2-year diploma, getting hired by their uncle as a "manager" and thinking that was the way to "buy" immigration. That wasn't right, either.

EE is only 2 1/2 months into operation. The threshold of points for the ITA WILL come down. Instead of complaining about what isn't fair, start thinking about what will make YOU sufficiently desirable to a company that they will apply for an LMIA. And have the courage to be patient, EE might still work for you.

 

[torontosm]

It seems you confuse being an international student with being a highly skilled worker. Not sure why you think those from overseas have "dubious skills and education," when they are sufficiently qualified and desired by employers to get the LMIA. If you were as qualified, you could get the LMIA too.

Very well said!

 

[zhk]

It seems you confuse being an international student with being a highly skilled worker. Not sure why you think those from overseas have "dubious skills and education," when they are sufficiently qualified and desired by employers to get the LMIA. If you were as qualified, you could get the LMIA too.

I know that CIC was promoting education as a path to immigration and it seems unfair that they changed the rules on you. But before, people were coming here, paying for a 2-year diploma, getting hired by their uncle as a "manager" and thinking that was the way to "buy" immigration. That wasn't right, either.

EE is only 2 1/2 months into operation. The threshold of points for the ITA WILL come down. Instead of complaining about what isn't fair, start thinking about what will make YOU sufficiently desirable to a company that they will apply for an LMIA. And have the courage to be patient, EE might still work for you.

You need to realize it's not the qualification that gets you LMIA !! It's the jobs in-demand such as skilled trades ( construction workers , plumbers , sandblasters etc that gets you LMIA. Now we can't just change our career lol.

 

[pziegler1986]

"Wah wah wah wah, woe is me" is all you hear from quite a few PGWP holders. Getting tiresome.

 

[buckobob]

PGWP being LMIA exempt should have been kept out of the ambit of LMIA requirement for valid job. PGWP holders who are making more than the median income based on location and NOC should have been awarded points for arranged employment. Its just not fair by giving them first LMIA exempt work permit and then indirectly asking them to get it.

 

[The_Distant_One]

PGWP being LMIA exempt should have been kept out of the ambit of LMIA requirement for valid job. PGWP holders who are making more than the median income based on location and NOC should have been awarded points for arranged employment. Its just not fair by giving them first LMIA exempt work permit and then indirectly asking them to get it.

Why I'm on the IEC (one year open work permit) earning well above median income and paying a crap load in taxes but I'm not demanding I be given special treatment because my company pulled out of LMIA.

The canadian government is prioritising jobs for its citizens which it is allowed to do. No matter what job you are doing (especially if your got a university degree here) I bet there is a naturalised citizen who could do your job. If you cant find an employer who will sponser your LMIA or PNP then I would say the programme has worked exactly how they want it to.

 

[AshesNdust]

PGWP being LMIA exempt should have been kept out of the ambit of LMIA requirement for valid job. PGWP holders who are making more than the median income based on location and NOC should have been awarded points for arranged employment. Its just not fair by giving them first LMIA exempt work permit and then indirectly asking them to get it.

Why should they get special treatment? Anyone that got a job under NAFTA has the same issue.

 

[canadadreamming]

Why should they get special treatment? Anyone that got a job under NAFTA has the same issue.

NAFTA and IT people never paid 40K a year as tuition and expense as PGWP did!

 

[mead]

Why I'm on the IEC (one year open work permit) earning well above median income and paying a crap load in taxes but I'm not demanding I be given special treatment because my company pulled out of LMIA.

The canadian government is prioritising jobs for its citizens which it is allowed to do. No matter what job you are doing (especially if your got a university degree here) I bet there is a naturalised citizen who could do your job. If you cant find an employer who will sponser your LMIA or PNP then I would say the programme has worked exactly how they want it to.

this argument is flawed. It assumes all people who get LMIA jobs have better things to offer to canadian community and thats what they want for it to work on paper, it also makes sense on paper. But people who fake experience for getting jobs or just plain incompetent people may get preference. Example a person outside canada fakes experience gets a job with LMIA gets PR and is utterly useless in canada and a burden. There should be a one to two year period of probation where people from outside canada need to keep the job they got before their PR gets finalized. Some people who are from developed countries wont understand this as we do from third world countries. Experience and education is faked easily. people who r working on LMIA exempt work permit have been in canada for 1 or more years and proved their worth some also have canadian education. Thats why putting everyone in one pool is not logical and not better for canadian people. This express entry system is a vote getting system to promote to canadian citizen that they r restricting foreign workers/PR and only allowing required talent. Canadian people wont be able to see the flaws in the system. if they wanted to really restrict PR for any tom dick or harry they should have restricted student visa, restricted number of open work permits they issue. but they wont restrict student visa as students bring in lots of money.

 

[timmituyi]

Very well said Mead.

 

[pziegler1986]

NAFTA and IT people never paid 40K a year as tuition and expense as PGWP did!

Paying ridiculously high tuition is irrelevant. Not anyone's problem you chose to study here.

 

[flag2009]

That said, PR is not a right, it's a privilege. How is CIC favoring people outside Canada?! They've leveled the playing field. The tuition fees are for the studies you completed, not for automatic PR or an automatic 600 extra points so you can be almost assured of getting ITA.

Yes I agree that PR is NOT a right but a privilege, and Canada can do whatever they want. But the playing field has NOT been leveled, they have made it worse for PGWP to get a PR. I cannot for the life of me find a reason why a recent graduate should get a LMIA, so which means EVERY PGWP holder gets an automatic -600 while living in a country where your rights to work are already limited. Now you are not only competing with Canadians (who have their advantage and time to gain enough experience) but now international candidates who have their home advantage to get their skills needed to get LMIA. How is a recent graduate supposed to compete with advance workers for LMIA??

IF they are trying to say they don't need PGWP holders anymore, too many graduates, then just SAY IT, so students can look for their future somewhere else. They want to have their cake (expensive school fees) and eat it too (throw you out after you have paid the school fees). NOPE!!!

In fact, Canada is quite generous to offer such a work permit in the first place. I don't know that there are many other developed countries that do that. \

But maybe I'd feel differently if I were in the PGWP holders' situation.

Please, what generosity? that is the LEAST they can do after PGWP holders are paying average of 4 times the fees of citizens. NOT everyone has rich parents to pay their fees for them, some people have to work as laborers during the hot summer to pay fees.

Anyways, my main problem is them changing the rule so drastically without giving PGWP some heads up. At least have some decency and give the current PGWP holders (especially the ones who's papers are expiring and were just rejected for CEC last year) some time to adjust to the changes.

 

[pziegler1986]

this argument is flawed. It assumes all people who get LMIA jobs have better things to offer to canadian community and thats what they want for it to work on paper, it also makes sense on paper. But people who fake experience for getting jobs or just plain incompetent people may get preference. Example a person outside canada fakes experience gets a job with LMIA gets PR and is utterly useless in canada and a burden. There should be a one to two year period of probation where people from outside canada need to keep the job they got before their PR gets finalized. Some people who are from developed countries wont understand this as we do from third world countries. Experience and education is faked easily. people who r working on LMIA exempt work permit have been in canada for 1 or more years and proved their worth some also have canadian education. Thats why putting everyone in one pool is not logical and not better for canadian people. This express entry system is a vote getting system to promote to canadian citizen that they r restricting foreign workers/PR and only allowing required talent. Canadian people wont be able to see the flaws in the system. if they wanted to really restrict PR for any tom dick or harry they should have restricted student visa, restricted number of open work permits they issue. but they wont restrict student visa as students bring in lots of money.

Your assumption is that getting a job from outside of Canada is the same as getting one inside Canada. It's not even in the same universe. Most Canadian companies would pretty much toss out every CV from outside Canada. Why the heck would they waste their resources on such a risky proposition? Recruiters/head hunters might be willing to look at international CVs but again, I strongly feel like they would not even bother when the reality is, most jobs, are jobs which Canadians or foreign nationals already inside Canada are qualified for.

My problem with EE is the disproportionate amount of points awarded to work experience in Canada - Maximum 80 points for work experience (5+ years), whereas you can get almost double that for Education. The labour market here values actual experience over qualifications in my experience.

I do agree that LMIA gives out far too many points - I would reduce it to 400 and increase the Human Capital threshold with the additional points coming from Canadian work experience.