Visa rejected. Need help reapplying.

[Bryanna]

I'm not sure why anyone who advises someone who has been refused.... believes that ALL refused applicants MUST apply for GCMS notes.

All cases do NOT require GCMS notes. Some just require good old common sense and a little bit of intelligence

GCMS notes do not have the magical words..... they do not state 'Hey XYZ, submit these ABC documents... and you will get your TRV'

 

[Bryanna]

My mom, dad, and my younger sister (29) applied for TRV to attend my wedding in late June. They applied together with my dad as the principal applicant (paper application). They got rejection emails exactly one week after they submitted their applications. This is so upsetting. I can't even fathom having a wedding without them. The grounds for refusal they gave in the email were:

· I am not satisfied that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay as a temporary resident, as stipulated in paragraph 179(b) of the IRPR, based on your personal assets and financial status.

· I am not satisfied that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay as a temporary resident, as stipulated in paragraph 179(b) of the IRPR, based on your travel history.

The thing is those reasons just don't make sense to me. My family is fortunate enough to have always been in a good financial situation and own properties. Also, all three of them have, what I would consider, strong travel histories.

For proof of personal assets and financial status, they submitted letter of goodwill from the bank, my dad's bank statements showing about 120K, company business registration document for 2 different businesses, bank statement for one business, tax documents, audited financial statements, land/property ownership documents for all three of them. My sister also submitted her own employment letter, bank statements, and letter of goodwill from the bank.

In the past 10 years my dad has traveled to US five times and Germany twice. My mother has traveled to the US four times in the past 10 years. My sister was an undergrad student in the US from 2007-2011 and then spent another year in the US working on OPT (Optional Practical Training). She came back home in 2012 after completing her OPT and has since visited the US twice on visitor visa. She has also traveled to Germany, Singapore, Malaysia, Bangladesh, and Thailand (twice) in the last 10 years. All three of them have currently valid US visas (that expire in 2021) thus making them eligible for CAN+ processing. They have mentioned the CAN+ eligibility in the cover letter and I have done the same in my invitation letter as well. They scanned all the visas and the exit/entry stamps and submitted them with the application package. They even made a travel history table for each applicant with columns for Country, Entry date, Exit date, and Purpose of Visit.

I just fail to understand how they could be rejected for TRV based on their personal assets and financial status, and travel history. It just doesn't make sense. Can senior experts like @Bryanna @scylla or anybody help me understand what can we do different when reapplying so that we get a positive response. We have decided that we will try again with only my parents applying. We're also considering doing an online application this time. Do you think this will help or does it not really matter?

FYI, this is the list of documents they submitted along with their forms and document checklist

1. Cover Letter
2. Proof of fee payment
3. Passport copies of all three applicants
4. Photos of all three applicants
5. Purpose of Travel
· My wedding invitation card and envelope
· Wedding venue confirmation
· Travel Itinerary
6. Previous travel history of all three applicants
7. Proof of Financial Support and Asset
· Letter from Bank regarding Personal bank status
· Bank Statements
· Letter from Company A stating my dad's position in the company
o Bank Statement for Company A
o Company Registration documents for Company A- Notarized
o Company A Brochure
· Tax Documents
· Audited financial statement
· Company Registration documents for Company B- Notarized
· Land Documents under all three applicants' names
8. More documents belonging to sister
· Letter of employment
· Personal Bank documents
· Letter of goodwill from Bank
· Bachelor’s degree certificate from XXXXX College, New York, USA
9. Marriage Certificate of my parents
10. Letter of invitation
· Invitation letter from me and my fiance
· A copy of my PR card and his passport front page
· Our bank statements
11. Proof of Relationship
· My Birth Certificate proving that my mom and dad are my parents
· My sister's Birth Certificate proving that we have the same parents and are hence sisters

For me to be able to help you:
1. Please split the documents submitted for each applicant instead of the combined list that you had posted earlier

2. More information about each applicant separately:
a. Your sister's employment since when?
b. Does your sister have any financial investments of her own.... not joint ones with your parents?
c. Does she volunteer for social or other causes?
d. Was the ownership of the land/property recently changed to include your sister?

a. Your dad's business has other partners and employees?
b. Bank balance in their personal accounts?
c. Was your dad paying for your sister?


Any other information (personal or professional) which each applicant can submit to prove they have compelling reasons to return home after a short visit?

 

[k.h.p.]

I'm not sure why anyone who advises someone who has been refused.... believes that ALL refused applicants MUST apply for GCMS notes.

All cases do NOT require GCMS notes. Some just require good old common sense and a little bit of intelligence

GCMS notes do not have the magical words..... they do not state 'Hey XYZ, submit these ABC documents... and you will get your TRV'

I don't believe that all refusals require notes. Here, it's hard to see on the face of it what may have indicated a refusal. I've seen someone refused a TRV based on purpose of visit and have read the notes where the visa officer says "The travel history does not indicate ability to respect visa requirements," while the travel history demonstrated 3 years of abiding by restrictive visa requirements. Where on the face of it a refusal doesn't make a lot of sense, then the notes help.

Should everyone get them? Goodness no.

 

[Bryanna]

I don't believe that all refusals require notes. Here, it's hard to see on the face of it what may have indicated a refusal. I've seen someone refused a TRV based on purpose of visit and have read the notes where the visa officer says "The travel history does not indicate ability to respect visa requirements," while the travel history demonstrated 3 years of abiding by restrictive visa requirements. Where on the face of it a refusal doesn't make a lot of sense, then the notes help.

Should everyone get them? Goodness no.

I don't think GCMS notes in this case will be any different from the refusal reasons.... which BTW are generic

The OP's family missed out on submitting some critical documents and/or did not present their application well.... IMO (and I can already see those gaps.... without GCMS, of course )

 

[k.h.p.]

I know that refusal reasons are generic, what I'm saying is that sometimes, sometimes, the visa officer's notes are different from the generic reasons and give you some insight. I'm just saying I don't think everyone needs GCMS, very few people actually do

 

[Bryanna]

I know that refusal reasons are generic, what I'm saying is that sometimes, sometimes, the visa officer's notes are different from the generic reasons and give you some insight. I'm just saying I don't think everyone needs GCMS, very few people actually do

I still think it is futile for most applicants to be advised to request for GCMS notes.

I would like to help the OP in my way.... which means I would like to analyze their situation/documents.... and then I will advise.

I don't believe in the GCMS shortcuts for giving advice..... because quite honestly, GCMS notes do NOT normally state anything quite different from the refusal reasons. Only difference: A paragraph explanation of the same refusal reasons.

S/he does not have the luxury of time as her/his wedding is scheduled shortly

 

[k.h.p.]

Absolutely, and I'd like to learn from what you have to say. I just was responding to your suggestion that I (?) tell everyone who was refused to get GCMS, which I don't.

If I'm reading your questions correctly, your initial idea here may be that the application may not have provided enough information for one or more of the family, and since everyone applied together, then the entire application was rejected. That makes some sense to me.

 

[Bryanna]

Absolutely, and I'd like to learn from what you have to say. I just was responding to your suggestion that I (?) tell everyone who was refused to get GCMS, which I don't.

If I'm reading your questions correctly, your initial idea here may be that the application may not have provided enough information for one or more of the family, and since everyone applied together, then the entire application was rejected. That makes some sense to me.

Hey don't take this personal please. I was just making a general observation

I have seen this scramble for GCMS notes happening so often that it is beyond absurd...... even in cases where even someone who is visually challenged can see a refusal coming. Sorry, no offence intended again.

Honestly, IRCC should apply discretion before issuing GCMS notes to anyone who requests them. It just puts a burden on IRCC resources. The same time and efforts can probably be better utilized elsewhere

 

[NotARobot]

For me to be able to help you:
1. Please split the documents submitted for each applicant instead of the combined list that you had posted earlier

Do keep in mind that the three of them applied together in one application package. But separately, these are the documents for each applicant.

Dad (principal applicant):
1. Cover Letter
2.Copy of passport front page
3. Purpose of Travel
· My wedding invitation card and envelope
· Wedding venue confirmation
· Travel Itinerary
4. Previous travel history
5. Proof of Financial Support and Asset
· Letter from Bank regarding Personal bank status
· Bank Statements
· Letter from Company A stating my dad's position in the company
o Bank Statement for Company A
o Company Registration documents for Company A- Notarized
o Company A Brochure
· Tax Documents
· Audited financial statement
· Company Registration documents for Company B- Notarized
· Land Ownership Documents
6. Marriage Certificate
7. Letter of invitation
· Invitation letter from me and my fiance
· A copy of my PR card and his passport front page
· Our bank statements
8. Proof of Relationship
· My Birth Certificate proving that my mom and dad are my parents

Mom:
.Copy of passport front page
. Previous travel history
· Land Ownership Documents
. Marriage Certificate
. Proof of Relationship - My Birth Certificate proving that my mom and dad are my parents

Sister:
. Copy of passport front page
. Previous travel history
· Land Ownership Documents
· Letter of employment
· Personal Bank documents
· Letter of goodwill from Bank
· Bachelor’s degree certificate from XXXXX College, New York, USA
. Proof of Relationship - My sister's Birth Certificate proving that we have the same parents and are hence sisters [/QUOTE]

2. More information about each applicant separately:
a. Your sister's employment since when?

My sister's been working since 2011, but the Letter of Employment was from he current job which she started from 2016.

b. Does your sister have any financial investments of her own.... not joint ones with your parents?

She, of course, has her own bank account. She also has land under her name. I am not aware of financial investments. I don't think so.

c. Does she volunteer for social or other causes?

She is a member the of the local Global Shapers chapter. Global Shapers does a lot of volunteering work locally and internationally. In fact, her visit to Bangladesh was with Global Shapers. She did not mention any of this in the application package.

Not social cause related, but she is also a member of an association of professionals in her field of work within our country. She also has an ID card for that. Not sure if she submitted this. I did tell her to but I didn't see it mentioned in the Table of Content, so I guess not.

d. Was the ownership of the land/property recently changed to include your sister?

No. She's been the owner for about 10 years now.

a. Your dad's business has other partners and employees?

Yes. Company A has 2 other partners and several employees. For Company B my dad and my sister are the partners and they have 3 employees working for them. Note that this is different from my sister's position in her other work which issued her the Letter of Employment.

b. Bank balance in their personal accounts?

For my dad, about 120K. For my sister, I'm not sure. My mom is a homemaker.

c. Was your dad paying for your sister?

In the application, yes, he said that he will be responsible for covering the expense incurred on the trip by all three of them.

Any other information (personal or professional) which each applicant can submit to prove they have compelling reasons to return home after a short visit?

Other than their work, businesses, land/property, good travel history, I guess for my sister we can get a letter from Global Shapers and also add her professional association membership ID. In the cover letter, they did state that they need to back home in late August because a specific work related event is happening. Although, they weren't even gonna be in Canada for that long. They were gonna return before the end of July. Should I shorten the number of days of their visit? They wrote down 24 days in their application.

 

[NotARobot]

I don't think GCMS notes in this case will be any different from the refusal reasons.... which BTW are generic

The OP's family missed out on submitting some critical documents and/or did not present their application well.... IMO

They literally submitted documents for every requirement in both the Document Checklist (IMM 5484) and the regional checklist. So it definitely cannot be lack of documents. I think it may be that it wasn't presented/ organized well (or at least the visa officer thought so), especially since there was a lot of documents and ours was a huge application package (cuz of the English translations and notarizations).

(and I can already see those gaps.... without GCMS, of course )

Could you please let me know the gaps you spot in my family's application. That would really help us in getting things right when reapplying. It would mean a lot to us.

 

[NotARobot]

@Bryanna
I am thinking of changing the answers for 3 questions in the main application form (imm 5257) when helping my parents apply the second time: Length of visit, funds available for the visit, and native language/mother tongue.

I am thinking of changing the length of their visit from 24 days to 14 days.
This will also decrease the amount listed in funds available for the visit. The first time my dad had 15K and mom had 5K.
I am thinking of changing the answer for Native language/Mother tongue from our regional/ ethnic language to my country's national language. My entire family can speak both languages with the same level of fluency. The reason for this change is because a lot of people from my ancestral/ethnic region have applied for refugee/asylum status in the past years and even now. I thought may be that played a role in the refusal since I'm pretty sure the embassy is familiar with this . May be the visa officer thought that my parents may also apply for asylum when they get to Canada. However, that doubt on the visa officer's part is completely misguided since my family has been living in the capital city for 3 generations now, is in good financial standing, has strong ties to the country, and has a good travel history record. My family has no intentions of living in Canada. They will only be here for the wedding.

Since we have to enter our previous UCI number in the new forms as well, will it be a problem to change these answers when applying for the second time, especially since they have all the record of our previous application. Will they compare each and every answer to the prev submission?

PS: I know we also need to properly organize our supporting documents and get more documents, but I don't want to take any chance even with the form.

 

[Bryanna]

@Bryanna
I am thinking of changing the answers for 3 questions in the main application form (imm 5257) when helping my parents apply the second time: Length of visit, funds available for the visit, and native language/mother tongue.

I am thinking of changing the length of their visit from 24 days to 14 days.
This will also decrease the amount listed in funds available for the visit. The first time my dad had 15K and mom had 5K.
I am thinking of changing the answer for Native language/Mother tongue from our regional/ ethnic language to my country's national language. My entire family can speak both languages with the same level of fluency. The reason for this change is because a lot of people from my ancestral/ethnic region have applied for refugee/asylum status in the past years and even now. I thought may be that played a role in the refusal since I'm pretty sure the embassy is familiar with this . May be the visa officer thought that my parents may also apply for asylum when they get to Canada. However, that doubt on the visa officer's part is completely misguided since my family has been living in the capital city for 3 generations now, is in good financial standing, has strong ties to the country, and has a good travel history record. My family has no intentions of living in Canada. They will only be here for the wedding.

Since we have to enter our previous UCI number in the new forms as well, will it be a problem to change these answers when applying for the second time, especially since they have all the record of our previous application. Will they compare each and every answer to the prev submission?

PS: I know we also need to properly organize our supporting documents and get more documents, but I don't want to take any chance even with the form.

I will reply to you tomorrow late evening because it won't be possible before that

 

[NotARobot]

I will reply to you tomorrow late evening because it won't be possible before that

No problem at all. Thank you so much for all your help so far. You really are a Godsend.

 

[canuck78]

Would suggest your parents applying first. I think their chances at a visa are much better than your sister. You could apply for your sister after getting approval for your parents.

 

[NotARobot]

Would suggest your parents applying first. I think their chances at a visa are much better than your sister. You could apply for your sister after getting approval for your parents.

Yes we have decided to do that this time.

My father's bank statement is from early March and all the other translated and notarized documents are dated mid-March. Can we use the the same documents when reapplying (it'll probably be 1.5 weeks from now)? Or are those documents now considered outdated and we need to get them notarized again? Is it ok to submit 1-2 month(s) old documents?