ExpatProf said:
Just back, and here's my report:
Thank you for the report.
Regarding PoE experience:
This report is consistent with the conventional wisdom here.
ExpatProf said:
At the PoE in Canada, I tested the system by scanning my US passport instead of my new Canadian PR card, but then when I got to the human being at the desk, they asked about my status, and when I said I was a PR, they said I should have scanned my PR card, not my passport. I then told the guard about how I just got my new PR card a few days prior, and asked her what would have happened if I had arrived at this point with only the expired PR card. She said that would have been fine, and that I simply would have had to go into the office behind her where they would have looked me up in the system - she said it just would have taken a bit longer.
So to conclude:
2) It's apparently no problem to return to a Canadian PoE with an expired or missing PR card (although this may depend on one's status in the system - e.g. whether one has applied for a replacement, whether it has been approved, etc. - I don't know about these potentialities).
This outcome, again, is consistent with the conventional wisdom and understanding of most participants in this forum, and consistent with what I posted:
dpenabill said:
It is very unlikely you will encounter a problem at the PoE itself . . .
Or, simply, really, the PoE is not going to be a problem.
dpenabill said:
-- No problem at the PoE . . . especially if you present your U.S. passport and your expired PR card
There has been little or no confusion or uncertainty as to that aspect of things.
It would be different, of course, for a PR who has not complied with the PR Residency Obligation, or perhaps for one who had cut it close and for whom there might be questions about compliance with the PR RO. When the PIL officer said that if you only had the expired PR card it would take just a bit longer in the back room, to look you up in the system, for a PR on the cusp of breaching the PR RO that interview could include a residency examination.
Regarding boarding the flight:
ExpatProf said:
At the airport in the US, no one asked me for anything except my (US) passport.
So to conclude:
1) Still seems to be possible (or at least not uniformly enforced otherwise) to travel US --> Canada with a US passport and no PR card (or equivalent/replacement doc).
This too was also much as I anticipated.
dpenabill said:
My guess is that it is also unlikely there will be any problem boarding the flight itself.
. . .
My best guess is that for a flight departing the U.S. for Canada, a U.S. passport gets an easy pass. Personally I would probably chance it, and I am not much of a risk taker (these days).
dpenabill said:
My guess is that for now, until the end of summer, there is a fair chance a PR with a U.S. passport can still board a flight to Canada from the U.S. but I am NOT confident about this, let alone certain, absolutely no guarantees.
For at least through summer my guess remains as before, that a Canadian PR presenting a U.S. passport has good odds of being allowed to board a flight originating in the U.S. and headed to Canada. But your experience does not obviate the lack of certainty as to what another PR (with U.S. citizenship) might encounter when boarding a flight, even one originating in the U.S.
As to explaining why or how, or trying to draw general conclusions, there remains a range of possibilities. For example, given the presentation of a U.S. passport for a flight within North America, it is possible there is no API entry made into the IAPI system (while the CBSA system is distinctly, separately Canadian, it was built on the U.S. model for screening passengers on flights headed to North America).
It is also possible that since this flight was booked in Canada, there already was clearance for boarding passes in both directions (thus, again, no API entry into the IAPI system for purposes of obtaining clearance to issue boarding pass for flight to Canada).
I definitely would not infer this means the IAPI system does not recognize PRs, or does not respond to the API entry in a way that does not reveal who is a PR. This too remains one of the possibilities, but my sense is that this is one of the less likely scenarios.
In general, for PRs from other visa-exempt countries, I wonder whether during this eTA leniency period if there is a practical difference between boarding flights to Canada from the U.S. versus boarding flights originating elsewhere in the world. I would not be at all surprised if there is a difference. Which is to say, perhaps a PR presenting a visa-exempt passport for a flight originating from the U.S. gets an easier pass than if it is a flight originating outside North America.
Regarding no need for valid PR card at PoE:
Rob_TO said:
This is already common knowledge.
I agree . . . in terms of common knowledge among regular participants in this forum . . . but it is far from intuitive. Look at the early exchanges in this particular discussion,
ExpatProf was surprised, perhaps even a bit incredulous initially, when posts here said not to worry about what will happen at the PoE. Just the fact that
ExpatProf made the effort to query the border officer about this suggests
ExpatProf was not quite convinced.
And I do not fault anyone for harboring such skepticism. Even the most firmly accepted conventional wisdom in online sites can indeed be wrong.
Nonetheless, this does illustrate one of the benefits of a site like this, where non-official, informal but fairly well established information can be shared, so that what those who follow such things learn, and is for them "common knowledge," can be shared with those who are not so engaged.