Unable to get married and unable to be/prove common-law

[chipits]

There are actually quite a few countries that allow same sex marriage now, I would hope that your partner would be able to get a visa to at least one of them, although granted I am unaware as to the challenge Russian citizens may face in that regard.

Iceland and Denmark, I know have same sex marriage. France very recently legalized it. I don't think Iceland have a residency requirement, although I'm not 100% certain of that, in part due to their popularity as a tourist destination.

 

[Steph C]

There are actually quite a few countries that allow same sex marriage now, I would hope that your partner would be able to get a visa to at least one of them, although granted I am unaware as to the challenge Russian citizens may face in that regard.

Iceland and Denmark, I know have same sex marriage. France very recently legalized it. I don't think Iceland have a residency requirement, although I'm not 100% certain of that, in part due to their popularity as a tourist destination.

Iceland, what a great idea. They could get married and then honeymoon at a Geiser or at the Blue Lagoon 8) I found this online

http://www.pinkiceland.is/#!gay-weddings/c1ahf

 

[Rob_TO]

Yes I understand all of that, but I do disagree on this one. I guess it's up to the VO!

Remember, this is what the VO is following in deciding if a common-law relationship is valid: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf
5.34. Recognition of a common-law relationship
A common-law relationship is fact-based and exists from the day in which two individuals demonstrate that the relationship exists on the basis of the facts. The onus is on the applicants to prove that they are in a conjugal relationship and that they are cohabiting, having so cohabited for a period of at least one year, when the application is received at CPC-M.
A common-law relationship is legally a de facto relationship, meaning that it must be established in each individual case, on the facts. This is in contrast to a marriage, which is legally a de jure relationship, meaning that it has been established in law

They are looking at facts. There is not much that is open to interpretation... and breaks of weeks will be analyzed and questioned. A 2 month break would be unheard of!

 

[DGT]

Remember, this is what the VO is following in deciding if a common-law relationship is valid: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf
5.34. Recognition of a common-law relationship
A common-law relationship is fact-based and exists from the day in which two individuals demonstrate that the relationship exists on the basis of the facts. The onus is on the applicants to prove that they are in a conjugal relationship and that they are cohabiting, having so cohabited for a period of at least one year, when the application is received at CPC-M.
A common-law relationship is legally a de facto relationship, meaning that it must be established in each individual case, on the facts. This is in contrast to a marriage, which is legally a de jure relationship, meaning that it has been established in law

They are looking at facts. There is not much that is open to interpretation... and breaks of weeks will be analyzed and questioned. A 2 month break would be unheard of!

I agree. But surely in the analyzing and questioning, the break in living together is easily and honestly justifiable. But I defer to your wisdom! You certainly know more about the process than I.

 

[Rob_TO]

I agree. But surely in the analyzing and questioning, the break in living together is easily and honestly justifiable.

Yes, it may be a perfectly valid reason, but you still need to satisfy the legal definition of common-law with basic facts and for this it doesn't matter what your reasons are. I would wager anything that nobody in CIC history has done a successful common-law app with only 10 months continuous cohabitation! Though i would love to know if it has indeed happened.

 

[MilesAway]

Iceland also requires a visa, but I think we might have more luck with a Schengen visa, given that she has gotten them twice before.

Unfortunately, Iceland is not a cheap country. All for love though, right?


I have to agree that the 2 month break, although out of my control, would still end the common-law period. They clearly ask for 12 months, and 10 is not 12. A few weeks might have been alright, but definitely not 2 months. Actually, it'll be closer to 6 weeks, if all goes well and quickly.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Iceland also requires a visa, but I think we might have more luck with a Schengen visa, given that she has gotten them twice before.

Unfortunately, Iceland is not a cheap country. All for love though, right?


I have to agree that the 2 month break, although out of my control, would still end the common-law period. They clearly ask for 12 months, and 10 is not 12. A few weeks might have been alright, but definitely not 2 months. Actually, it'll be closer to 6 weeks, if all goes well and quickly.

If you decide on Iceland, there are ways to keep it cheap . You can get a hostel for 2 weeks for around $650 (not the most romantic but it works). Stay in a place with a kitchen and buy food at the supermarket instead of going out to eat, around $350-$400 (plus maybe an extra $150 for a nice wedding dinner . Don't know where exactly you'd be flying out from but from Moscow, there are flights for around $2000 return for 2 people. Wedding costs, visa, activities (Blue Lagoon is a must-see), taxis/buses, add another $1000 and you're still around the $4000 mark....a lot of money but still cheaper than most weddings and you get a trip to a beautiful country

 

[chipits]

Yeah, I spent two weeks in Iceland, and it isn't AS expensive as people make it out to be. If you go out to eat, go on a ton of excursions, shopping that sort of thing it will be expensive, but canuck_in_uk has given you some excellent advice. And it truly is a beautiful country, definitely worth seeing if you get the opportunity, and a wonderful place to get married I would imagine.

Also Iceland is part of Schengen.

 

[ASashaS]

Hi! My own experience and my research shows that once you have a marriage certificate, nobody will ask you anything! If you don't have a marriage certificate, than you have explaining to do.

If you are a Canadian resident, and she can manage to come to Canada even for a visit, you could get married in Canada during her stay, and that would probably be the best. However, it sounds that they are refusing to give her VISA? Have you tried getting her a tourist VISA? If you could get one of your relatives/friends to write her an invitation letter, guaranteeing that they will take care of her during her stay, and explaining their relationship, that might work. My uncle, who lives in Canada, did that to get our cousins to visit to Canada, and I did the same, while living in the USA, to get our cousins to visit in USA.

If you in fact can get married in Argentina, (considering that neither of you is Argentinian citizen, and since most countries that allow same-sex marriage do require that at least one person is from that country), you should get married there!

The application to come to Canada only asks for marriage certificate (with proper translation and apostle), and nothing else. If they happen to call you for an interview, than you can bring all your photos and other evidence. Once your are both in Canada, you can always get married again, with family and everything else you wanted for a wedding

When my spouse applied for her open-work-visa (which includes temporary residence), all she submitted online is: scan of her passport, scan of my passport and my Canadian work visa, scan of our marriage certificate from Mexico city, including a translation and apostle, and one form, and that's it.

good luck!

 

[Rob_TO]

The application to come to Canada only asks for marriage certificate (with proper translation and apostle), and nothing else. If they happen to call you for an interview, than you can bring all your photos and other evidence.

This is very bad advice!! The whole point of doing the application thoroughly, is to avoid having to go for an interview. If you only submit a marriage certificate and nothing else, you are 100% guaranteed of having to go to an interview.

There are countless cases where married couples' applications are refused. This is because there are tons of actual cases of marriage fraud and marriages of convenience... where people get a marriage certificate only to immigrate here. Including proofs and photos is mandatory in any application, unless you want lots of delays and a significantly higher chance of refusal.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

Sounds as if milesaway has enough factual evidence to support a common-law relationship after they pass the 1 year mark. Given that it will take an additional 3months to prepare all the other documentation should they not just proceed with that? They can include their intention to formally marry once milesaway's partner has landed. Surely the Russian government's move to target homosexuality makes it an issue to be discreet.

 

[MilesAway]

I would love to apply as common-law, but unfortunately, I don't think we qualify. We're just short of it, because of the fact that I worked away at a summer camp (where I got a warning about my orientation), only coming home on Saturdays/Sundays. And now I fly back to Canada on July 1st, for 5 weeks, enough time to renew my passport and get the visa process started. Then we spend a week in Finland getting my work visa, I hope.

Sadly, I think the 5 weeks will reset the common-law counter back to 0. So we don't really have a choice other than to wait until we can get legally married. At the moment though, as mentioned in the other post, there appear to be some problems in obtaining the required documents to get married, which involve stating the parties to the marriage. The Russian authorities have apparently refused to give these certificates to same-sex couples in the past, so I'm not sure how that will work for us, and if it will cause problems by drawing attention to me. I really hope not.

Thank you all for the responses.

I will respectfully disagree with the advice to include only the marriage certificate. I don't believe that would be sufficient proof for the IO.

 

[QuebecOkie]

MilesAway, I just want to say my heart goes out to you and your partner. I'm American, and eagerly awaiting some Supreme Court decisions affecting equality for same-sex couples. I hope my home country is ready to get on the right side of history at this time.

I'm so sorry that you face these tremendous and unfair obstacles to building a life with the one you love. I sincerely hope that what is obviously a powerful love remains strong for many years to come and carries you both safely through to the life you deserve.

 

[cempjwi]

I would love to apply as common-law, but unfortunately, I don't think we qualify. We're just short of it, because of the fact that I worked away at a summer camp (where I got a warning about my orientation), only coming home on Saturdays/Sundays. And now I fly back to Canada on July 1st, for 5 weeks, enough time to renew my passport and get the visa process started. Then we spend a week in Finland getting my work visa, I hope.

Sadly, I think the 5 weeks will reset the common-law counter back to 0. So we don't really have a choice other than to wait until we can get legally married. At the moment though, as mentioned in the other post, there appear to be some problems in obtaining the required documents to get married, which involve stating the parties to the marriage. The Russian authorities have apparently refused to give these certificates to same-sex couples in the past, so I'm not sure how that will work for us, and if it will cause problems by drawing attention to me. I really hope not.

Thank you all for the responses.

I will respectfully disagree with the advice to include only the marriage certificate. I don't believe that would be sufficient proof for the IO.

A marriage certificate is not usually good enough for couples that married within 2yrs of filing an application with CIC. Our experience was that, having been married for 5 months before we sent our application, once an agent started processing it we were asked for documentation relating to our continuing relationship after the application was received by CIC (including household expenses paid together, common mailing address, etc.).

Regarding your common-law relationship, if you can prove it otherwise the temporary separation that will occur on July 1st, please read this article regarding Canadian law, specifically under BC law (http://rulelaw.blogspot.com/2008/03/when-does-common-law-relationship-end.html), where it says:

How do you determine if when the relationship has ended? Madam Justice Gray wrote that, “parties cease to live and cohabit in a marriage-like relationship when either party regards the relationship to be at an end, and by his or her conduct, demonstrates in a convincing manner that this particular state of mind is a settled one.”

A common-law relationship is a marriage-like relationship where the couple has co-habituated continuously for at least one year. However, note that the above paragraph says "a marriage-like relationship", not "a common-law relationship", which means that the exception (temporary separation where neither party regards the relationship as having ended) may apply to a marriage-like relationship that is not common-law yet.

It is clear that the period of 1-yr must be continuous; however, there is also the notion of "having broken up". Breaking up and separating affects the 1-yr rule; however, not breaking up and separating for extenuating circumstances may work as well as it does for separations under the same circumstances after the 1yr rule has been met (where it says that a temporary separation for particular reasons - work related, immigration processing, etc. - is not grounds for considering the common-law relationship as having ended).

I think it is worth a shot to view it in this way.

 

[CanadianJeepGuy]

A marriage certificate is not usually good enough for couples that married within 2yrs of filing an application with CIC. Our experience was that, having been married for 5 months before we sent our application, once an agent started processing it we were asked for documentation relating to our continuing relationship after the application was received by CIC (including household expenses paid together, common mailing address, etc.).

Regarding your common-law relationship, if you can prove it otherwise the temporary separation that will occur on July 1st, please read this article regarding Canadian law, specifically under BC law (http://rulelaw.blogspot.com/2008/03/when-does-common-law-relationship-end.html), where it says:

How do you determine if when the relationship has ended? Madam Justice Gray wrote that, “parties cease to live and cohabit in a marriage-like relationship when either party regards the relationship to be at an end, and by his or her conduct, demonstrates in a convincing manner that this particular state of mind is a settled one.”

A common-law relationship is a marriage-like relationship where the couple has co-habituated continuously for at least one year. However, note that the above paragraph says "a marriage-like relationship", not "a common-law relationship", which means that the exception (temporary separation where neither party regards the relationship as having ended) may apply to a marriage-like relationship that is not common-law yet.

It is clear that the period of 1-yr must be continuous; however, there is also the notion of "having broken up". Breaking up and separating affects the 1-yr rule; however, not breaking up and separating for extenuating circumstances may work as well as it does for separations under the same circumstances after the 1yr rule has been met (where it says that a temporary separation for particular reasons - work related, immigration processing, etc. - is not grounds for considering the common-law relationship as having ended).

I think it is worth a shot to view it in this way.

This is a pretty decent argument. Say the separation is due to employment but you still send money to support your partner. The relationship is still continuous though physically separate.