Unable to get married and unable to be/prove common-law

[Rob_TO]

One more question about the common-law thing. If she accompanies me somewhere for at least part of the time, would it count? It can't be all, because of the visa issues. She only gets visas for 1 month, and it'll take 2 to process.

For common-law, it doesn't matter where you are living together, it just matters that you are in fact living together. This could be over many countries or traveling.

Technically you are allowed small breaks for temporary reasons during the cohabitation requirement. You can see some more info here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf
5.35. What is cohabitation?
“Cohabitation” means “living together.” Two people who are cohabiting have combined their affairs and set up their household together in one dwelling. To be considered common-law partners, they must have cohabited for at least one year. This is the standard definition used across the federal
government. It means continuous cohabitation for one year, not intermittent cohabitation adding up to one year. The continuous nature of the cohabitation is a universal understanding based on case law.
While cohabitation means living together continuously, from time to time, one or the other partner may have left the home for work or business travel, family obligations, and so on. The separation must be temporary and short

IMO, CIC weights the more important parts of the cohabitation at the beginning and end of the 12 months. You said you started to live with your partner since July 1, 2012. So if your partner was going to apply for a 1-month visa to visit you to continue the cohabitation, I would time it so you are definitely living together on July 1, 2013. If there was say a 2-3 week gap where you were temporarily apart due to the visa issue before that, hopefully CIC would consider this "temporary and short".

 

[anticipation]

"Secondly, we are not opposed to going to Argentina. In fact, I think it would be cool, because it's one of the few countries that we can both visit without visas. However, none of my family will be able to attend, and then I'd have CIC questioning why none of our family members or friends were at the wedding, and why we went so far away to do it. It truly seems like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. "

You have a very good reason for going to Argentina to get married without your family being available. You are unable to get married in your current country. Taking the trip to Argentina to get married would show how deeply commited you are to each other. Go ahead and get married there if you want. It can only look like a positive step for you and your parner. It is hard not to over think things in this situation.

 

[herewecome]

Argentina does not count per CIC. Only same sex marriages from

Belgium
the Netherlands
Norway
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
the State of California (June 16, 2008 – November 5, 2008)
the State of Massachusetts
the State of New Hampshire
the State of Connecticut
the State of Iowa
the State of Vermont (effective September 1, 2009)

UK will most likely join this list later this year if that helps visa wise.

 

[amikety]

It also says:

Please note that the above list of jurisdictions is offered as a guide only, and is subject to change. It is your responsibility to provide CIC information about whether or not your same-sex-marriage was legally recognized when and where it occurred.

It's a guide. Not an all-inclusive list. As long as she can provide proof (if needed) that same sex marriage is legal in Argentina and they were eligible to be married, it would work.

 

[MilesAway]

So if I were to include, for example, a copy of the marriage laws from Argentina, or whatever country we end up going to, (translated into English as required), that would count?

If we did a short trip for a wedding, say only a week, max 10 days. Would that strike the VO as odd? I suppose a letter explaining why we did things the way we did, and that we plan on having an informal "reception" whenever we end up in Canada. (Neither of us wants a big traditional wedding, I'd be happy with a big barbecue and my closest family and friends.)


In a related thought, some people post their Facebook "relationship", however we have nothing on there publicly, other than some pictures of us. Nothing romantic, and nothing that would raise eyebrows, again, for the reason that some of the people on my friends list are not aware of our relationship. We don't make it public because of the potential for backlash at my job, and in general. We do have 1000s of messages on FB, just privately, along with Skype, MSN, e-mails, text messages/SMS, Vkontake (Russian FB), and some things we sent each by mail while we were apart for 13 months. I hope we'll be okay.

Proving my return to Canada might be tough, especially since our VO has proven themselves to be rather stupid in that regard. One couple was refused because they did not believe they would return to Canada, this despite the fact that they had sold their apartment and bought a house in Canada, and the refusal letter was sent to the sponsor...in Canada.

 

[herewecome]

Is Argentina gay marriage or union? I believe idiots a format that is open to both gay and straight in the same way that Canada will consider it the same as their own marriage laws. For example, civil partnership in the UK gives the same rights as marriage and you need to go through a legal separation if you split up. However it is not recognised as marriage in Canada. I've been in one for many years and applied the common law route.

I just wanted to throw it out there as it really could end up going down a route that prevents you from being married in future if you already have something (not as useful for immigration purposes) already in place.

 

[sabaniga]

It also says:

Please note that the above list of jurisdictions is offered as a guide only, and is subject to change. It is your responsibility to provide CIC information about whether or not your same-sex-marriage was legally recognized when and where it occurred.

It's a guide. Not an all-inclusive list. As long as she can provide proof (if needed) that same sex marriage is legal in Argentina and they were eligible to be married, it would work.

This worked for my wife and I. We have a German civil partnership. We applied in the "Married" catergory. We had no problems, not once did our VO mention it. It was not on the list, but this line Amikety mention, plus the CIC's description on what constitutes a marriage for the CIC was enough for us to say, we are married, we have a legal paper binding us to the other. We live as married people do, and if Germany had full marriage, we would have had that, but this is as good as it gets. It may say civil partnersip on the paper, but it is a marriage to us. CIC agreed.

 

[DGT]

Is Argentina gay marriage or union? I believe idiots a format that is open to both gay and straight in the same way that Canada will consider it the same as their own marriage laws. For example, civil partnership in the UK gives the same rights as marriage and you need to go through a legal separation if you split up. However it is not recognised as marriage in Canada. I've been in one for many years and applied the common law route.

I just wanted to throw it out there as it really could end up going down a route that prevents you from being married in future if you already have something (not as useful for immigration purposes) already in place.

Argentina does perform Gay Marriage rather than Civil Partnership. A new law was passed in 2010 bringing it into effect.

 

[Ttcdfolk]

Thanks for the advice so far folks.

First off: I did not mention conjugal because we do not qualify for it. I quit my job in Canada and moved here to be with her.

Secondly, we are not opposed to going to Argentina. In fact, I think it would be cool, because it's one of the few countries that we can both visit without visas. However, none of my family will be able to attend, and then I'd have CIC questioning why none of our family members or friends were at the wedding, and why we went so far away to do it. It truly seems like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

We do have a lot of proof of our relationship, including thousands of messages on Facebook, MSN, and e-mails while we were apart. We met in 2009 when I was there studying Russian. I went back to Canada for a year, had a good job, but after she was refused TRVs, I decided to move back, because the long-distance thing was not fun. So I've been here since August 2011, but only living together since July 2012. The relationship should not be in question, but the cohabitation might be. She has Skype chat logs from talking to my parents, some messages with my brother, and messages from my family members welcoming her to my family. I have letters from friends and co-workers here who know about us, stating that we are a couple, live together, etc. (The co-workers are also teachers, and "westerners" who are more open-minded.)

As for South Africa, I am getting conflicting information about whether non-residents are allowed to marry there. And she needs a visa, so that makes it complicated.

Sounds like my wedding none of our families were there.

 

[herewecome]

This worked for my wife and I. We have a German civil partnership. We applied in the "Married" catergory. We had no problems, not once did our VO mention it. It was not on the list, but this line Amikety mention, plus the CIC's description on what constitutes a marriage for the CIC was enough for us to say, we are married, we have a legal paper binding us to the other. We live as married people do, and if Germany had full marriage, we would have had that, but this is as good as it gets. It may say civil partnersip on the paper, but it is a marriage to us. CIC agreed.

Good for you guys. We just went common law as we have many years for that anyway. But good to hear others experience.

 

[cempjwi]

So if I were to include, for example, a copy of the marriage laws from Argentina, or whatever country we end up going to, (translated into English as required), that would count?

If we did a short trip for a wedding, say only a week, max 10 days. Would that strike the VO as odd? I suppose a letter explaining why we did things the way we did, and that we plan on having an informal "reception" whenever we end up in Canada. (Neither of us wants a big traditional wedding, I'd be happy with a big barbecue and my closest family and friends.)


In a related thought, some people post their Facebook "relationship", however we have nothing on there publicly, other than some pictures of us. Nothing romantic, and nothing that would raise eyebrows, again, for the reason that some of the people on my friends list are not aware of our relationship. We don't make it public because of the potential for backlash at my job, and in general. We do have 1000s of messages on FB, just privately, along with Skype, MSN, e-mails, text messages/SMS, Vkontake (Russian FB), and some things we sent each by mail while we were apart for 13 months. I hope we'll be okay.

Proving my return to Canada might be tough, especially since our VO has proven themselves to be rather stupid in that regard. One couple was refused because they did not believe they would return to Canada, this despite the fact that they had sold their apartment and bought a house in Canada, and the refusal letter was sent to the sponsor...in Canada.

Sao Paulo in Brazil also has same-sex marriage and it should be recognized by CIC as CIC states that they will recognize the marriage as long as it is legal in the place where it took place. We had our marriage in Washington DC, not listed by CIC and it worked as the list of places they provide on their website is not comprehensive since same sex laws regarding marraige are always changing. We also had no one at our ceremony which took place at the courthouse in DC (our families were very far away). We had no reception as they are not customary, for one, and our families could not afford the trip to NC were we resided at the time we married (we now live in Florida). We later (during stage 2) had to provide evidence of ongoing relationship by means of joint purchases and correspondence in either or both names at the same address (this seems to be very important to CIC for certain relationships). We also had to provide evicende that the Canadian is returning to Canada (as sponsor lives in the US). Sponsor has a job offer in Canada to start in June/July. We mailed all requested docs two weeks ago. We are still waiting. Although we are not in the same situation, it sounds similar, except that we do not have to hide our relationship.

 

[MilesAway]

Thanks again for the advice.

My hope of having her with me was squashed as her TRV was refused. So I'll be in Canada, thus ending the common-law option, We're looking at other options, but we're both quite crushed.

Her family doesn't know about me. At least, not directly. She's telling them slowly, but given that her mom has made it clear that she thinks homosexuals are mentally ill and that she despises them...I'm not expecting much. Suffice to say, they will not be attending the wedding, if/when that happens. As well, her family is also Russian (a bit obvious, but anyway) and would likely face the same trouble she had in getting visas.

 

[DGT]

Thanks again for the advice.

My hope of having her with me was squashed as her TRV was refused. So I'll be in Canada, thus ending the common-law option, We're looking at other options, but we're both quite crushed.

Her family doesn't know about me. At least, not directly. She's telling them slowly, but given that her mom has made it clear that she thinks homosexuals are mentally ill and that she despises them...I'm not expecting much. Suffice to say, they will not be attending the wedding, if/when that happens. As well, her family is also Russian (a bit obvious, but anyway) and would likely face the same trouble she had in getting visas.

You know, I think that you should trying calling the CIC call centre and getting advice on whether the 2 months of separation due to the passport renewal constitutes a break in you common-law status. Just to be sure. It doesn't seem too unreasonable to conclude that this is a short and enforced separation due to circumstances beyond your control.

 

[Rob_TO]

You know, I think that you should trying calling the CIC call centre and getting advice on whether the 2 months of separation due to the passport renewal constitutes a break in you common-law status. Just to be sure. It doesn't seem too unreasonable to conclude that this is a short and enforced separation due to circumstances beyond your control.

No matter what you are advised of on the phone by a CIC customer service rep, the VO who actually processes your file can still do whatever they want. So even if the call centre rep says its no problem, the VO can still reject the application.

IMO 2 months is a LONG time when first trying to establish common-law, especially since it would take place at the end. 12 months is a LEGAL DEFINITION of common-law. Here they would clearly only have 10 months continuous cohabitation, which is almost 20% short of required time. Even if you are 1 day short of the 12 months, the VO has reason to reject the application.

 

[DGT]

No matter what you are advised of on the phone by a CIC customer service rep, the VO who actually processes your file can still do whatever they want. So even if the call centre rep says its no problem, the VO can still reject the application.

IMO 2 months is a LONG time when first trying to establish common-law, especially since it would take place at the end. 12 months is a LEGAL DEFINITION of common-law. Here they would clearly only have 10 months continuous cohabitation, which is almost 20% short of required time. Even if you are 1 day short of the 12 months, the VO has reason to reject the application.

Yes I understand all of that, but I do disagree on this one. I guess it's up to the VO!