that was harsh, I need your support

[david1697]

Let's just agree to disagree here. My personal experience of growing up "poor" in a first world country compared to the struggle for my brother to find a white collar job in my home country (even after graduating in the top university in the country) will never allow me to agree with your statement.

I wasn't arguing there. I specifically said I won't go into argument about $$$GDP, and cited facts which make the GDP $$$ figure an unreliable indicator to measure a real economic performance.And I have stopped it there. So, there was nothing to disagree with me per se, and the things I cited there ($$$GDP not being most accurate and reliable measure of real economic performance) is not my opinion but a well know fact among all economists.

We'll agree here. However, I'd say networking to a certain extent is important in every country. Some industries are more dependent on networking than others. I've a friend working Calgary who couldn't land a job while he was in the US after he completed his studies. He didn't have any trouble finding a job when he moved to Canada working for an oil services company. He did, however, know one of the HR managers in that company. So what's the difference? He had a better network in Canada than in the US. So the need for networking is not just a phenomenon found in Canada.

PS. Too call your statement idiotic was probably idiotic on my part. I actually value your views with respect to Canadian/US immigration. However, as I actually have experience with the 3rd world, I do not value your views on those subject as much.

Networking: I am not against networking in principle. In my opinion it's impossible to order people not hire people they know personally or want to.
That would be tyranny. If you hire people for your business you should be free to choose the best fit as you like. And, especially in top managerial positions, you want very loyal people , people who share your vision, goals, dedication and etc. Also, when someone is being promoted within, surely it's due to their work and personality being appreciated and rewarded by higher ups. How silly it would be to force managers not to promote those they know in person and who are great assets for growth of their firms.
So, some degree of networking that leads to certain career path or advancement is normal, and is present in all economies at all times.

What I find abnormal is when I am told that networking is the ONLY way to get ANY white collar job, no matter how simple or basic or entry level or mid level it is. Do you notice the difference? It's not a natural thing anymore, it's a manifestation of corrupted minds now (which is sort of inevitable, I guess, when economy deteriorates to the point where 500-600 people apply for each vacancy, with at least 30% of applicants overqualified , and another 20% (could be as many as 100 applicants or more!) being almost a perfect fit, of course people will get corrupted in an economy like that).

As to my experience, I myself come from a country where corruption is wide spread and I know a thing or two about poverty and third world country conditions that average American and Canadian doesn't know. It's part of the reason why I am so critical of practices that remind me of third world country practices.You probably didn't read all my posts , but I had few debates on this very forum where I was telling some Canadians of European origin and others how different life in third world countries is from what they can fathom.

Your error is that you took my post in emotional stride and decided to just went off your steam at me, without carefully reading and understanding the point I was trying to make, and you resorted to name-calling saying that I have made an idiotic statement.

It's Ok with me, may be you are too young to know better and I appreciate you now realize that name calling was uncalled for.

If I was to give you (and anyone who takes things personal and resorts to insults and name-calling) , so if I was to give you one advise, here is what it would be:
try not to get personal, we are not dueling here for personal honor, like landed aristocracy in medieval times. We are just regular folks here , with Canadian PR (or aspiring to get Canadian PR), and we are discussing the conditions we observe around us and in the world.
Let's focus on the subject, not take things personal and not call each other names.

With best wishes

 

[tania1810]

David,

I see your depressing post all over this forum. What is your problem anyways ??. If you are unhappy with the economy, go somewhere else, or go back to your native country whatever that is, India, Pak or Bangladesh.

Stop discouraging people.

People have come to Canada, and been successful, not all of them, but many of them. If you couldn't make it, does not mean that someone else will also not be a success there.

Nothing personal, but the time you spend here typing your depressing and negative comments could best be used for job hunting and networking.


God Bless,

TA

 

[david1697]

David,

I see your depressing post all over this forum. What is your problem anyways ??. If you are unhappy with the economy, go somewhere else, or go back to your native country whatever that is, India, Pak or Bangladesh.

Stop discouraging people.

People have come to Canada, and been successful, not all of them, but many of them. If you couldn't make it, does not mean that someone else will also not be a success there.

Nothing personal, but the time you spend here typing your depressing and negative comments could better be used for job hunting and networking.


God Bless,

TA

tania1810, FYI - I am in US, my entire family (of US Citizens) have received Canadian PR under FSW category.
Since we received our PR's we were sending resumes all over, to hundreds of jobs in Canada.
Not once, not even ONE of them bothered to reply/call and ask "Oh, btw, did you apply for this job?"
At best we've got canned "You are super fine but we found a candidate who was still better" responses.
Clearly, all our resumes went to a black hole. And it's no wonder when job application becomes a Lotto where odds are 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 ratio.

I am not originally from Pak, India, Bangladesh or South Asia, but even if I was I would consider it a blatant arrogance on your part to tell me that just because I have an opinion of the job market (based on my personal experience) which is contrary to what would please your ears to hear, I must now pack up and go there..

If you want to argue that there is no oversupply of skilled workers in current Canadian job market, that engineers and doctors are not driving taxis, that you don't need a "network" to be considered for skilled jobs in Canada, and that search for a job under current conditions is nothing but proverbial sperm race for an egg, then please feel free to present your point of view and, if you can, back it up with some evidence to counter the opinion you disagree with. Otherwise, have a nice day!


P.S. (general question) :
I just don't understand, what is the problem with the people who just can't stand to hear an opinion they are not pleased with and who must come and tell me or someone else how we must shut up or go somewhere else. Who do you think you are to tell others what they have to think and what opinion they should be sharing online,provided they are doing so peacefully and within the framework of civil debate?

What makes people feel ENTITLED to dictate to others what opinion they can form and share in public?!

 

[realtexdex]

It is nice to express divergent ones on a subject, but when one starts belaboring the same drivel over and over and over, it becomes insufferable!

 

[david1697]

It is nice to express panoramic views including divergent ones on a subject, but when one starts belaboring the same drivel over and over and over, it becomes insufferable!

Dear Sir/Madame:

Doesn't it ever occur to you that most of my posts are either in response to someone who directly addressed me (or my opinion), or states something I have a different opinion of?

At what point do you think I must take that 'hush-hush' (of keeping my thoughts to myself) stand while those I disagree with can do what you would describe as "belaboring the same drivel over and over and over"? And why do you think so?

 

[Hussain Junejo]

Posting an off-topic thingy David you havr always replied in a well mannered way your points/experience while they are against for many People and they start giving you poor LOL.. you got 46 poor.
*I am not favouring nor appreciating david's reply just giving my opiniion as per i noticed/read..

 

[david1697]

Posting an off-topic thingy David you havr always replied in a well mannered way your points/experience while they are against for many People and they start giving you poor LOL.. you got 46 poor.
*I am not favouring nor appreciating david's reply just giving my opiniion as per i noticed/read..

Currently I have 47 negatives ;D

I am lucky not to be living in the medieval Spain or something. By now I would have surely been declared a witch, drowned at pond or burned at stakes ;D

Some people are not rational and above of all get personally angry with you if you state something they can't counter by evidence and logical argument, but which pains them to hear about ;D

Weatherman says there is a hurricane outside, supermarkets are destroyed and you can't do a thing about it. Damn weatherman, let's go and kick the guts out of him, surely he is the reason why we have a hurricane! ;D At very least he should be telling us there is a Sunshine outside, we can't afford to know what has happened, we will expire of depression if we open our eyes and try to deal with the situation as is ! ;D Damn weatherman, let's throw him head-down from Niagara Falls so we never hear about bad weather again ;D

 

[dbss]

Currently I have 47 negatives ;D

I am lucky not to be living in the medieval Spain or something. By now I would have surely been declared a witch, drowned at pond or burned at stakes ;D

Medieval Spain quote had me laughing... ;D

 

[rahul20978]

Currently I have 47 negatives ;D

I am lucky not to be living in the medieval Spain or something. By now I would have surely been declared a witch, drowned at pond or burned at stakes ;D

Some people are not rational and above of all get personally angry with you if you state something they can't counter by evidence and logical argument, but which pains them to hear about ;D

Weatherman says there is a hurricane outside, supermarkets are destroyed and you can't do a thing about it. Damn weatherman, let's go and kick the guts out of him, surely he is the reason why we have a hurricane! ;D At very least he should be telling us there is a Sunshine outside, we can't afford to know what has happened, we will expire of depression if we open our eyes and try to deal with the situation as is ! ;D Damn weatherman, let's throw him head-down from Niagara Falls so we never hear about bad weather again ;D

Actually, David, that's not our problem. To take up your own metaphor, "Weatherman says there's a hurricane all over Canada, and all except a very few high end supermarkets in Canada are destroyed. Weatherman keeps giving us this exact same report on every channel on the telly, every five minutes. If I feel that maybe, just maybe, I'd like to stick my head out the window to see if the rain and wind has slightly abated, or if the supermarket up my street is maybe still standing, weatherman immediately says I'm stupid and irrational, because he, weatherman, knows better than I do what's good for me. You known how weatherman knows this? Because he looked out his own window in his little part of the world, and found its still raining and windy."
That's what bothers us. I agree the economy isn't great. But to blame everything on the economy? Anyway, you've told us all once, you've told us all a hundred times (or more). Thank you. We got your opinion. I'm still going to stick my neck out, and test those winds and waters for myself.

 

[david1697]

Actually, David, that's not our problem. To take up your own metaphor, "Weatherman says there's a hurricane all over Canada, and all except a very few high end supermarkets in Canada are destroyed. Weatherman keeps giving us this exact same report on every channel on the telly, every five minutes. If I feel that maybe, just maybe, I'd like to stick my head out the window to see if the rain and wind has slightly abated, or if the supermarket up my street is maybe still standing, weatherman immediately says I'm stupid and irrational, because he, weatherman, knows better than I do what's good for me. You known how weatherman knows this? Because he looked out his own window in his little part of the world, and found its still raining and windy."
That's what bothers us. I agree the economy isn't great. But to blame everything on the economy? Anyway, you've told us all once, you've told us all a hundred times (or more). Thank you. We got your opinion. I'm still going to stick my neck out, and test those winds and waters for myself.

Listen. If you have a point make an argument. Pick any statement I have made: about oversupply of skilled workers, scarcity of jobs, need to "network" to be considered for a job, 1 to 100 or 1 to 1000 ratio of applicants versus vacancy, and then demonstrate how is it wrong, why you think it's wrong, what evidence or personal experience you have to show it's wrong.
If you have nothing of substance to dispute or argue then have a nice one!

I am not here to write a novel about someone or point my fingers at anyone who disagrees with me,
Nor am I interested in reading the same about me. I have no time to waste on these things.

You can't refute what I write, nor like reading it? Then don't read it!
Why should I stop participating in a public forum and censure myself to please the tastes of anyone?
Do I tell you "don't speak up your mind, don't tell economy in Canada is OK for you?" Do I tell you "stop telling people how you will test the waters on your own" and how you hope things may work for you? Did I ever say any of those things to you?
No, I didn't. I say feel free to write whatever you want, as long as it doesn't get personal and doesn't insult me.

So what makes you think you are entitled to hear from me exactly what you want or else I must shut it?

 

[rahul20978]

Listen. If you have a point make an argument. Pick any statement I have made: about oversupply of skilled workers, scarcity of jobs, need to "network" to be considered for a job, 1 to 100 or 1 to 1000 ratio of applicants versus vacancy, and then demonstrate how is it wrong, why you think it's wrong, what evidence or personal experience you have to show it's wrong.
If you have nothing of substance to dispute or argue then have a nice one!

I am not here to write a novel about someone or point my fingers at anyone who disagrees with me,
Nor am I interested in reading the same about me. I have no time to waste on these things.

You can't refute what I write, nor like reading it? Then don't read it!
Why should I stop participating in a public forum and censure myself to please the tastes of anyone?
Do I tell you "don't speak up your mind, don't tell economy in Canada is OK for you?" Do I tell you "stop telling people how you will test the waters on your own" and how you hope things may work for you? Did I ever say any of those things to you?
No, I didn't. I say feel free to write whatever you want, as long as it doesn't get personal and doesn't insult me.

So what makes you think you are entitled to hear from me exactly what you want or else I must shut it?

Actually, you do deem anyone who doesn't agree with you, irrational and dumb. You do try to actively discourage people from trying to stick their necks out, and test the waters for themselves. Not once, not twice, but enough number of times that some people wonder, "who died and made this guy God?". Now I'm just saying that my opinion is that you are full of it. Don't like my opinions? Don't read 'em. ;D. Just gloss over my posts like they're not even there. And I'm not saying you should shut it. I'm just saying, if you insist on flaunting your opinions, nay, forcing your opinions on others, you must be ready for brickbats as well as bouquets. I'm absolutely there are plenty of forum members out there who feel the same way I do. What makes you think I must have only good opinions about you or that I must air only good opinions about you? Why do you find it insulting that someone may have a problem with your opinionated attitude? After all, I'm telling you direct that I have a problem, and exactly what my problem is. I'm not going around bleating to everyone else that they must discount everything David says, because my opinion is the only one that counts.

 

[david1697]

Actually, you do deem anyone who doesn't agree with you, irrational and dumb. You do try to actively discourage people from trying to stick their necks out, and test the waters for themselves. Not once, not twice, but enough number of times that some people wonder, "who died and made this guy God?". Now I'm just saying that my opinion is that you are full of it. Don't like my opinions? Don't read 'em. ;D. Just gloss over my posts like they're not even there. And I'm not saying you should shut it. I'm just saying, if you insist on flaunting your opinions, nay, forcing your opinions on others, you must be ready for brickbats as well as bouquets. I'm absolutely there are plenty of forum members out there who feel the same way I do. What makes you think I must have only good opinions about you or that I must air only good opinions about you? Why do you find it insulting that someone may have a problem with your opinionated attitude? After all, I'm telling you direct that I have a problem, and exactly what my problem is. I'm not going around bleating to everyone else that they must discount everything David says, because my opinion is the only one that counts.

You have no right to come and tell me out of the blue "you are full of it". that's an insult.

You have no right to cross the line and start a personal argument, call names, engage in an ad hominem, just because you can't refute my statements on their merit.

It's not your business what opinion I chose to have and share on public forum. But if you have anything of substance to make argument to the contrary , state so. "You say me dumb irrational because I say not what you say", what kind of argument is this?

What exactly are you disputing? Which one of my statements? About oversupply of skilled workers, scarcity of jobs in Canada, 1 to 500 ratio of applicants to vacancies, a duty to "network" to have your resume looked at? Which one? Unless you dispute any of these statements you have no argument with me.

And you have no right to come here to personally insult and call names people whose opinion you disagree with and have no ability to dispute.

 

[TheNightmanCometh]

Dave, you're all right with me. You repeat the same things over and over like broken record, and you're a sensitive little flower; but you bring much needed drama and entertainment to a forum that's supposed to be rather dry.

 

[rahul20978]

You have no right to come and tell me out of the blue "you are full of it". that's an insult.

You have no right to cross the line and start a personal argument, call names, engage in an ad hominem, just because you can't refute my statements on their merit.

It's not your business what opinion I chose to have and share on public forum. But if you have anything of substance to make argument to the contrary , state so. "You say me dumb irrational because I say not what you say", what kind of argument is this?

What exactly are you disputing? Which one of my statements? About oversupply of skilled workers, scarcity of jobs in Canada, 1 to 500 ratio of applicants to vacancies, a duty to "network" to have your resume looked at? Which one? Unless you dispute any of these statements you have no argument with me.

And you have no right to come here to personally insult and call names people whose opinion you disagree with and have no ability to dispute.

I'm not calling you dumb and irrational. I said you call everyone who doesn't agree with you dumb and irrational. And yes, I have read all about the scarcity of jobs, but no where have I read it being as bad as you say it. So yes, your opinion is just that - your opinion, based on your personal experience. Don't try to pass it off (the enormity of the problem, not the problem itself) as actual fact. When someone has a differing opinion based on their personal experience, you've gone so far as to call him a liar. isn't that insulting? If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
I have a good friend who did apply from the US for a mechanical engineering job, got a job, and is now in Calgary. No networking, no influence, no prior Canadian experience, no Canadian education (He has a Masters from a US university). And he's not a rocket scientist. Now you'll probably say "I don't believe you", which mean you think I'm a liar, which is insulting to me. And so we'll go round this again and again. When you display your opinions on a public forum, you are going to find people who agree with you, and people who disagree with you. When you call people who disagree with you dumb and irrational, they are entitled to call you an ass and an opinionated moron. Refute that if you will.

 

[rahul20978]

Dave, you're all right with me. You repeat the same things over and over like broken record, and you're a sensitive little flower; but you bring much needed drama and entertainment to a forum that's supposed to be rather dry.

Hahahahaha. Isn't it fun to pull his leg a little, and have him puff up like a little bantam and start crowing? It does give me a little respite from the sometimes dreary job of trying to run my (at the moment) slightly short-staffed consulting business.