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Test to Oath - When does delay qualify as unreasonable for mandamus?

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tsooma

Star Member
Apr 13, 2015
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Pre-Assessed..
Suppose it's been 1.5 years since the test, and that test to oath is up to six months => it's been 3x (normal time amount)
ATIP shows file going back and forth and says file is done being processed.
Case specific inquiry has been done.
Demand letter + writ of mandamus to be done.... what delays qualify for a writ of mandamus as being "unreasonable"?

How is reasonable/unreasonable determined?
 
Hey Tsooma
Let's start from the beginning.
You have mentioned that you didn't receive any additional request from CIC.
1. do you know if your application is routine or not?
according to CIC, to fall under non-routine one, you should have received rq, fp or just request for additional documents, also if you tried to change your name, DOB or anything else in the application. That's official story, however, case officer can deem your application as non routine without following official guidelines. As my lawyer told me, 36 months still IS unwritten deadline for non-routine ones. That part was eliminated from IRCC's website but Fed Court still follows this rule.
2. To apply for mandamus, you should have tried every possible way to resolve the problem with IRCC; that includes your MP's involvement and communication with McCallum (his aids) through your MP or directly.
3. Have you received any reply on your Case specific inquiry ?
4. Demand letter has more weight if it's done by your representative (attorney), but he/she might ask you to fulfil the option 2 first (MP and McCallum).
5. File going back and forth doesn't constitute any actual 'action' on your file, (tip from my lawyer, as my file changed hands and shelves quite a few time in St.Clair office).
6. Application for mandamus after your demand letter has few stages;
1. Application for leave - application to federal court, same time IRCC and Department of Justice are served.
2. DOJ has to reply in 10 days if they will represent IRCC in court (they will).
3. Request for information regarding decision on your file from IRCC (done by court or DOJ), IRCC will reply that application has no decision.
4. After IRCC's reply, your lawyer has 30 days to prepare and file the argument to the court (more detailed one).
5. DOJ has to come up and share information before the court, why there was a delay. If DOJ lawyer sees that application is delayed unjust, she/he will try to persuade case officer to finish the application.
I have no idea regarding next stages yet.
But as you can see, 36 months still is 'unreasonable' delay if application is Non-routine.

If I were you, I would take this information with a grain of salt, I'm sharing what I know but some people might have more detailed experience.
 
Thanks for the incredibly detailed info ambient2!
My application is an RQ-one. I've done most of the mentioned steps: ATIP, phone calls with CIC, MP, and right now Case Specific Enquiry.

But the real question is: do I have to wait 36 months before being eligible for a Mandamus? How will the federal court interpret it?
 
were you RQ-ed before or after the test ?
I'm just going to speculate here as I haven't received any RQs and I'm not the lawyer.
If RQ was received before the test, your lawyer can argue in the court that test invitation is technically clearing IRCC's doubts regarding your residency. And in this case IRCC has to follow 6 months max rule from test to the oath.
If RQ was sent after the test, you would probably need to get information if RQ was cleared and when was the last action on your file (I think it's another 6 months).
I think some experienced lawyer can apply for Mandamus without waiting for 36 months if they will prepare strong argument. And the argument might be against 36 months too, as IRCC has changed these called 'deadline's.

p.s. Case specific inquiry is one of the useless things IRCC has.
 
ambient2 said:
were you RQ-ed before or after the test ?
I'm just going to speculate here as I haven't received any RQs and I'm not the lawyer.
If RQ was received before the test, your lawyer can argue in the court that test invitation is technically clearing IRCC's doubts regarding your residency. And in this case IRCC has to follow 6 months max rule from test to the oath.
If RQ was sent after the test, you would probably need to get information if RQ was cleared and when was the last action on your file (I think it's another 6 months).
I think some experienced lawyer can apply for Mandamus without waiting for 36 months if they will prepare strong argument. And the argument might be against 36 months too, as IRCC has changed these called 'deadline's.

p.s. Case specific inquiry is one of the useless things IRCC has.
Click to expand...

Do you have an official source for this "6 months max rule from test to the oath"?

I've only found this page http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/cit-test.asp from CIC where any reference is made to "6 months" but it's not described as a "rule". It says "The ceremony will usually take place six months after the test." (emphasis added).

I would love it if this was a hard and fast "rule" but I still haven't found anything official from CIC that says so, and I wouldn't be surprised if it took longer in my case.

You can't believe in absolute guarantees with CIC. Who's there to enforce any posted time frame guarantees? What recourse do we have against CIC if it doesn't live up to promised time frames? It's not like you can claim monetary damages against them for that. The finalize cases when they feel like it. Nothing we can do.
 
I forgot to add one more thing.
Before writing demand letter you might ask your lawyer regarding Case Management Branch.
Before July 2015, MP had the right to ask this branch information regarding your application, now they can not.
However lawyer can request more in depth info from them.
I personally skipped this part, cause I didn't want to deal with IRCC anymore.
 
marcus66502 said:
Do you have an official source for this "6 months max rule from test to the oath"?
Click to expand...
CIC call centre agents emphasised quite a few times on that 6 months rule (when I was still in that time frame). After Six months they were just baffled and couldn't say a thing.
Also when you deal with any Legal institution, every word written on that website has legal power (from my point of view), However there is no legally binding contract between you and IRCC saying that if you apply for citizenship, IRCC has that amount of time to finish your application.
 
Those mother f*ckers not only sent me a pre-test RQ, but now sent me a post-test RQ (close to 1.5 years after my test).
They asked for the exact same documents I had sent + RAMQ claims (that's new and wasn't asked for).
 
David_2015 said:
CIC IS SURELY MOTHER F*CKERS

I UNDERSTAND YOUR SITUATION ITS VERY SAD !!!!!
Click to expand...

How is your petition going? You got more than 5 people signed up?
 
tsooma said:
Those mother f*ckers not only sent me a pre-test RQ, but now sent me a post-test RQ (close to 1.5 years after my test).
They asked for the exact same documents I had sent + RAMQ claims (that's new and wasn't asked for).
Click to expand...

What a joke!
 
tsooma said:
Those mother f*ckers not only sent me a pre-test RQ, but now sent me a post-test RQ (close to 1.5 years after my test).
They asked for the exact same documents I had sent + RAMQ claims (that's new and wasn't asked for).
Click to expand...
Are they insane ?
btw, what is RAMQ ?
 
I called them a few days before posting here.
Lady over the phone agreed that they went overboard with the delay and said she'd write an email to the local office.
Local office responded with a CIT0520 (post-test RQ).

Had I not called, and gone for Mandamus, like ambient2 did, would I have received "decision made" by now?
 
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