Sponsorship Withdrawal before Landing

[PMM]

Hi

Neither do I. A nice read (not too long), mind you the outcome was not surprising.

Then there is the Regulations

120. For the purposes of Part 5,

(a) a permanent resident visa shall not be issued to a foreign national who makes an application as a member of the family class or to their accompanying family members unless a sponsorship undertaking in respect of the foreign national and those family members is in effect; and

(b) a foreign national who makes an application as a member of the family class and their accompanying family members shall not become permanent residents unless a sponsorship undertaking in respect of the foreign national and those family members is in effect and the sponsor who gave that undertaking still meets the requirements of section 133 and, if applicable, section 137.

 

[tuyen]

Then there is the Regulations

120. For the purposes of Part 5,

(a) a permanent resident visa shall not be issued to a foreign national who makes an application as a member of the family class or to their accompanying family members unless a sponsorship undertaking in respect of the foreign national and those family members is in effect; and

(b) a foreign national who makes an application as a member of the family class and their accompanying family members shall not become permanent residents unless a sponsorship undertaking in respect of the foreign national and those family members is in effect and the sponsor who gave that undertaking still meets the requirements of section 133 and, if applicable, section 137.

I'm still not seeing anything about being able to withdraw your sponsorship all the way up to the moment where the person lands.

The regulation you just quoted is a lot of legal babble which translates to:

(a) We're not giving you and your kids a PR visa unless someone is sponsoring you, and
(b) the person who is sponsoring you still meets the eligibility requirements of a sponsor throughout the entire process from beginning to end.

Part (a) is common sense.
Part (b) says that if at any time during the sponsorship process, your sponsor goes on welfare, or gets convicted of a sexual assault (or anything else that would make him not eligible to sponsor you anymore), then we're not giving you and your kids a PR visa.

But nothing in that regulation talks about being able to withdraw your sponsorship after the PR visa has already been granted.

In fact, the only regulation which talks about withdrawing an application is 119, which says:

Withdrawal of sponsorship application

119. A decision shall not be made on an application for a permanent resident visa by a member of the family class if the sponsor withdraws their sponsorship application in respect of that member.

But notice how it doesn't specify anything about a time frame. So that means we have to go by what is clearly stated in the CIC Sponsorship Guide, which says that the withdrawal of an application can only be made prior to that application being approved.

 

[PMM]

Hi

I'm still not seeing anything about being able to withdraw your sponsorship all the way up to the moment where the person lands.

The regulation you just quoted is a lot of legal babble which translates to:

(a) We're not giving you and your kids a PR visa unless someone is sponsoring you, and
(b) the person who is sponsoring you still meets the eligibility requirements of a sponsor throughout the entire process from beginning to end.

Part (a) is common sense.
Part (b) says that if at any time during the sponsorship process, your sponsor goes on welfare, or gets convicted of a sexual assault (or anything else that would make him not eligible to sponsor you anymore), then we're not giving you and your kids a PR visa.

But nothing in that regulation talks about being able to withdraw your sponsorship after the PR visa has already been granted.

In fact, the only regulation which talks about withdrawing an application is 119, which says:

Withdrawal of sponsorship application

119. A decision shall not be made on an application for a permanent resident visa by a member of the family class if the sponsor withdraws their sponsorship application in respect of that member.

But notice how it doesn't specify anything about a time frame. So that means we have to go by what is clearly stated in the CIC Sponsorship Guide, which says that the withdrawal of an application can only be made prior to that application being approved.

Notice the wording at the top of the guide? "This is not a legal document. For legal information, refer to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and Regulations or the Citizenship Act and Regulations, as applicable."

If the sponsor withdraws the sponsorship before the applicant "lands" then the sponsorship is no longer in effect. 120(b) says that they can't become permanent residents, which is the "landing" unless a sponsorship is in effect. Ergo, the sponsorship can be withdrawn at any point until the person actually "lands"

 

[tuyen]

If the sponsor withdraws the sponsorship before the applicant "lands" then the sponsorship is no longer in effect.

You still haven't shown me anything which backs up what you're saying, whereas I've shown you the exact wording in the CIC Sponsorship Guide which clearly says that you can't withdraw the sponsorship after the visa has been issued.

120(b) says that they can't become permanent residents, which is the "landing" unless a sponsorship is in effect. Ergo, the sponsorship can be withdrawn at any point until the person actually "lands"

No, that's not what 120(b) says at all. Read it carefully, and then read my plain-English translation.

It says that a sponsorship must be in effect (obviously), and that the sponsor must still meet eligibility requirements. However - and this is the key point - it does not specify WHEN the sponsorship may me stopped. So to find that specific detail, we have to go with the CIC Sponsorship Guide which clearly spells it out for us, and tells us that a sponsorship CANNOT be stopped after the visa has been issued.

 

[PMM]

Hi

You still haven't shown me anything which backs up what you're saying, whereas I've shown you the exact wording in the CIC Sponsorship Guide which clearly says that you can't withdraw the sponsorship after the visa has been issued.

No, that's not what 120(b) says at all. Read it carefully, and then read my plain-English translation.

It says that a sponsorship must be in effect (obviously), and that the sponsor must still meet eligibility requirements. However - and this is the key point - it does not specify WHEN the sponsorship may me stopped. So to find that specific detail, we have to go with the CIC Sponsorship Guide which clearly spells it out for us, and tells us that a sponsorship CANNOT be stopped after the visa has been issued.

This should satisfy you http://decisions.fca-caf.gc.ca/en/2006/2006fca186/2006fca186.html


The actual steps involved in that process insofar as they can be gleaned from the authorized form to which I have referred and the Operations Procedures Manuals appear to mirror this scheme. Based on the procedure outlined, the process is initiated by the filing at the designated visa office of an "Application for Permanent Residence in Canada" form which is completed in contemplation of the issuance of a visa for travel to Canada within the specified category. Once the visa is issued, the foreign national is invited to appear at a port of entry, visa in hand, and satisfy the immigration officer that he or she has come to Canada in order to establish permanent residence. If the officer is so satisfied, the foreign national is granted the right to enter Canada in order to establish permanent residence. That is how permanent resident status is acquired.



[36] Thus, an application for permanent residence is initiated by the filing of the authorized form and the process ends at the port of entry when the foreign national is allowed to enter Canada as a permanent resident.

 

[CharlieD10]

Every decision I have read on the matter says an application is not deemed "completed" or "finalized" until the applicant arrives at the port of entry and is granted permanent resident status by the examining officer. This means that AT ANY POINT PRIOR TO LANDING, a sponsorship may be withdrawn. Whether a visa has been issued or not is irrelevant to withdrawal of the sponsorship as long as the person holding the visa has not been examined by an officer and granted entry to Canada as a permanent resident at a port of entry.

The Act and the Regulations are not so much "legal babble", they ARE the final authority. Whatever CIC's website, Guidelines or Operating Manuals state, the final decision made by any judge will refer to the statutes and their intended interpretation by Parliament.

For further clarification, let me tell you what the officer told me at my own landing: he said a week prior he had been required to turn back a wife landing in Canada because her husband had begun receiving welfare AFTER she had been issued her visa. This meant that although she had a visa in her passport, he had ceased to be eligible as a sponsor, and consequently the CBSA officer could not land her as a PR because she was now without an eligible sponsor. If her application had been considered "final" because she had a visa in hand, the officer could not have made that decision, instead he would have been obliged to land her as a PR regardless.

 

[truesmile]

Huh . . . now I know 'tough times' are possible, but I think I'd have done the darndest not to collect welfare before my long-awaited loved one arrived ("landed"). I guess he thought he was 'free and clear', OR had already waited as long as he could with full intention of collecting all along. Wonder if he was 'citizen' or 'PR'. Hmmm . . . .

 

[Galip]

Thank you PMM...!! I don't know others but I am fully satisfied.

To be on the safe side his lawyer advises the husband make a detailed agreement between him and his wife. If seperation/divorce happens he will not responsible for any payments, such as paying alimony, spousal support, her wellfare amd other financial charges against him. If she applies for welfare than he'll garnish his money from her any time of his life. And if she refuses to sign this agreement this will give the husband a clue about their future in Canada and he may withdraw his sponsorship before she lands.

Thank you everyone for your comments and advises. I'll pass the above information to him.

 

[frege]

Thank you PMM...!! I don't know others but I am fully satisfied.

To be on the safe side his lawyer advises the husband make a detailed agreement between him and his wife. If seperation/divorce happens he will not responsible for any payments, such as paying alimony, spousal support, her wellfare amd other financial charges against him. If she applies for welfare than he'll garnish his money from her any time of his life. And if she refuses to sign this agreement this will give the husband a clue about their future in Canada and he may withdraw his sponsorship before she lands.

Thank you everyone for your comments and advises. I'll pass the above information to him.

Hello,

Maybe I'm coming a bit late to this, but as far as I can tell, the answer is that the sponsorship cannot be withdrawn after the visa has been issued. I'll say more about this below.

But personally, I think the husband is being a bit harsh. Most people don't want to come to Canada to receive welfare. Unless the husband has compelling reasons to believe that his wife has been seriously dishonest with him, I think interfering with her coming to Canada is wrong on a human level.

With respect to the legal question, more details are available in sections 5.40 and 12 of manual IP 2:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/ip/ip02-eng.pdf

Now, I don't know about the various interpretations being made of the wording of the regulations and of the court rulings. But I think this operations manual is authoritative with regard to the opinion of CIC, and barring a court challenge, they will follow it.

The manual mentions something else. If a request to withdraw sponsorship is made after the visa is issued, but before landing, then this is a factor that the examining officer at the port of entry can consider in deciding whether to grant PR. I can see at least two factors that would be considered: 1) whether the withdrawal is evidence that misrepresentation has occurred; 2) whether the withdrawal is evidence that the person arriving won't be able to settle in Canada because "adequate arrangements" for her care haven't been made. This will happen if the husband refuses to abide by his undertaking and the wife has no money on arriving or no ability to support herself (poor health, lack of employability or English/French) or be supported,

It seems to me that if the husband ever got the idea to try to withdraw the sponsorship and lie about the reasons (such as claiming falsely that the marriage was fake), then that could potentially make him subject to a lawsuit by the wife.

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert.

 

[saint4peace]

Hi
Pretty unusual, doesn't make sense, especially if you sent the FP prints in the first time. I would "bite the bulletin" and go to one of the approved digital fingerprinters for CIC, Corp of Commissionaires http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/fingerprint.asp for the list

Hi PMM: I did the digital finger printing and was confirmed thru email from RCMP that it was reported to CIC within 72 hours. However, I still have received the same exact letter that was sent to me on June 2012 again on October with RQ. All these happening after Citizenship Test, and I strongly believe I did correct all of the questions of the test which I remember clearly still today! So I just gave up thinking about Citizenship and decided NOT to call them. Just will do the FP again and send a print out copy from commissionnaire with RQ. It is just too much - I think right at this moment of my life. because I have been living in Canada over 10 years and only visited home 4 times and never ever visited USA in my entire life except I landed thru a 'flagpole' landing since I initially came as a student from South Eastern Asia. Very interesting although.

 

[Leon]

Without discussing for 2 pages if you can withdraw sponsorship after the PR visa or not, I would say if you want to do it, go ahead and see what happens. A lot of people say that you can't do this and that with immigration, will not work etc. but if you don't try, how would you ever know? I know of at least one guy on this forum who got his PR because he tried something when everybody told him it wouldn't work.

As for if it is cruel to withdraw sponsorship of the wife at the last minute is another thing all together. If they are still on a friendly basis, he might not want to do it because they might have a chance of getting back together and he would have the ability to help her get on her feet in Canada so she wouldn't have to go on welfare. However, it is a risk for him because if she can't find a job and does end up going on welfare or even if she becomes disabled and goes on disability for her first 3 years in Canada, he will have to pay. If he meets the love of his life during the next 3 years too, if she is not Canadian or PR already, he would not be able to sponsor her until the 3 years are up. Plus if they are not on a friendly basis, she may go on welfare or try to get disability just to make him pay.

As for the wife having a claim to PR because she married a Canadian even if they are not together, I am not so sure of that either. I could understand if she had spent a couple of years in Canada and built a life for herself and were to be deported because of this but she is not even in Canada yet?

 

[Isometry]

Unfortunately for your friend, it's too late to change his mind at this point.

The answer can be found in the Sponsorship Guide.

May I cancel my undertaking?

If you change your mind about sponsoring your spouse, common-law partner, conjugal partner or dependent children, you must inform CPC-M at CPCM-EXTCOM @ cic.gc.ca of your decision to withdraw your undertaking before the visa office issues permanent resident visas. You must clearly state your name, date of birth and Universal Client Identification (UCI) /Client ID number, if know, in all correspondences.

Once permanent resident visas are issued, the promise you and your co-signer, if applicable, made to support your family is valid for the term of your undertaking.

According to the sponsorship guide, it's too late for him to withdraw the sponsorship. It doesn't matter if she landed or didn't land - what matters is that the sponsorship was approved and the visa has already been issued.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/3900ETOC.asp

My interpretation of this is that sponsorship can still be withdrawn, as it states "before the visa office issues permanent resident visas". The COPR does not mean you are a PR, and neither does the passport stamp--you don't become a permanent resident until you land.

Also, Leon has good points.

 

[tuyen]

My interpretation of this is that sponsorship can still be withdrawn, as it states "before the visa office issues permanent resident visas". The COPR does not mean you are a PR , and neither does the passport stamp--you don't become a permanent resident until you land.

Come on people...this is quickly getting into silly land. You become a Landed Immigrant at the point of landing - but you can receive a PR visa months before landing.

Nobody said anything about "becoming a permanent resident". The point being discussed here is: can you withdraw your spousal application AFTER they have already issued a PR visa to the applicant, but BEFORE landing.

COPR = Confirmation of Permanent Residence.

It means you have it - they ISSUED it - it's as good as gold. It allows you to enter and stay in Canada as a permanent resident. Just because your haven't yet stepped off the plane doesn't mean you don't HAVE a PR visa.

Think of it like this: you're waiting for your tax refund check. You log into your government tax profile and you notice that you have $500 coming, and the refund was issued three weeks ago but you still haven't received it. You call up the government to complain, but the person on the phone says, "I'm sorry sir...there's nothing we can do. We issued the refund, and it's not our fault if the mailman didn't deliver it to you yet. If you still don't receive it after a few more weeks, call us back and we'll issue a new check after we cancel the first one."

The government fulfilled their obligations by ISSUING your refund. Just because you didn't RECEIVE it yet doesn't change the fact that they issued it. The same holds true with the issuance of a PR visa. Once the application receives a stamp of approval, the visa is ISSUED (granted). That's the point after which you can't do anything about it anymore as a sponsor, according to CIC's own rules which are clearly spelled out in the Sponsorship Guide.

HOWEVER - just because the sponsor can no longer change his mind after that point, doesn't mean that CIC can't intervene and stop everything if they discover new evidence which would deem the applicant inadmissible to Canada. So if you discover that your spouse suddenly ran off and married another guy after she received her COPR, you can certainly bring that to the attention of CIC, and they would act upon it, because she would be inadmissible under regulation 117(9). But that's a very specific condition, and is by no means the same as calling up CIC and saying, "I'd like to withdraw my spousal application because I found a younger, hotter girl who I'd rather marry!"

 

[tuyen]

This means that AT ANY POINT PRIOR TO LANDING, a sponsorship may be withdrawn.

By CIC, yes.
By you, the sponsor, no.

Whether a visa has been issued or not is irrelevant to withdrawal of the sponsorship as long as the person holding the visa has not been examined by an officer and granted entry to Canada as a permanent resident at a port of entry.

Read the Sponsorship Guidebook. You'll see that it's certainly NOT irrelevant, and they specifically say you can't cancel the sponsorship application "after the visa has been issued", and make absolutely no mention of "until granted permanent resident status at a port of entry."

If would seem that if the sponsor could change his mind right up to the last minute at the port of entry, then CIC's instructions to the sponsor would spell it out in that manner. But they don't, because that's not how it works.

For further clarification, let me tell you what the officer told me at my own landing: he said a week prior he had been required to turn back a wife landing in Canada because her husband had begun receiving welfare AFTER she had been issued her visa.

So what? That specific case falls under the "duh - no kidding" category.
The big difference that you seem to be overlooking is that in the case you just cited, it was CIC who stepped in to cancel the sponsor's application. The sponsor himself did not cancel anything. He became ineligible to sponsor as soon as he went on welfare, so of course they stopped everything. This isn't a surprise - it's spelled out clearly in the Sponsorship Guide.

This discussion is about whether or not the SPONSOR can call up CIC AFTER the PR visa has been issued and stop the process for something as simple as having changed his mind. And I still maintain that NO, he cannot, and neither you nor anyone else has been able to cite a legal precedent which would prove me wrong. Furthermore, had such a legal precedent been set already, you can rest assured that CIC would've updated their wording in the Sponsorship Guide to reflect the new legal decision.

 

[tuyen]

Once the visa is issued, the foreign national is invited to appear at a port of entry, visa in hand, and satisfy the immigration officer that he or she has come to Canada in order to establish permanent residence. If the officer is so satisfied, the foreign national is granted the right to enter Canada in order to establish permanent residence. That is how permanent resident status is acquired.

Bingo! Exactly right - that is how permanent resident status is acquired.
But that's not what we're arguing here. We're discussing whether or not a sponsorship application can be cancelled BY THE SPONSOR once the visa has been issued. CIC says no.

This should satisfy you http://decisions.fca-caf.gc.ca/en/2006/2006fca186/2006fca186.html

It was an interesting read, but it doesn't change anything. That was a very different case whereby the applicant rendered herself INADMISSIBLE into Canada according to 117(9), which therefore prevented her from sponsoring her new husband in the future.

The case we're dealing with here in this thread is whether or not a person can simply call up CIC and tell them to cancel the sponsorship application "just because".

And according to CIC's Sponsorship Guide, the answer is "no". So if somebody wants to challenge that in court, they're certainly free to do so, but the chances of that case going anywhere is zero to none, because the judge would see that there are already clearly-spelled-out rules in the Sponsorship Guide, and there would be no reason to hear the case as there is no ambiguity in the wording.

The case you referenced DID have ambiguity, which is why it was heard. They were arguing over the phrase "at the time of that application" (paragraphs 18, 38, 47, and 50 of the decision). But the wording found in the CIC Sponsorship Guide doesn't have any such ambiguity, and is very clear. The word "issued" is understood to be very different from "landed at a port of entry".

So if you can show me a case where the wording in the Sponsorship Guide was challenged as per 119, I'd be glad to read it.