Sign petition: New citizenship rules affecting foreign workers

[sashali78]

I also hope that this part of the bill is reviewed, however this full "discrimination" nonsense won't help any of us achieve it.

Citizenship is not a right by default. Nor is being able to count time towards it prior to PR a right. It's up to Canadians to choose what the requirements are. Just because we don't like it - doesn't mean it's discrimination.

The system is riddled with fraud and this is what the government are trying to prevent.

In essence, as they see it, if you intend to stay in Canada for good and to work... What's the problem? What is the issue with waiting 4 years? For people who intend to make Canada their home for good - nothing. In the US it's 5 years!

For those who want the passport and then want to explore other options - it's a bummer. But this is exactly what the government is trying to prevent. They want people who are here for good - not those who want the advantages of the passport without paying into the system in the long run.

If you read my petition closely, you will see that the discrimination I am talking about is not in front of Canadian law but relative to other immigration groups. Unlike most new immigrants, former foreign workers and students have spent the most time in Canada, have contributed the most in economic terms. Nevertheless it is the group which will be affected twice as hard as the others by the new bill. This amendment is totally contrary to Minister's proclamations of strengthening Canadian ties and value of Canadian citizenship.That's the discrimination i am talking about.
https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/canada-parliament-do-not-allow-discrimination-of-former-foreign-workers-and-students-by-new-canadian-citizenship-bill-c-24

 

[iamroth]

I feel this bill will put immense pressure on 'fake potential Canadians'. And though it is a privilege to be a part of Canada by becoming citizen, I personally feel this bill puts pressure on 'real future Canadians' too.

No doubt, people who wanted to collect Canadian passport and then return to their motherland - are the reason why Canada is making their immigration policy tougher. I understand Canada's position, but by removing "prior days of PR in Canada", this bill has cornered people who worked/studied, paid taxes for all these years. I don't mind that they have increased the total stay from 3 years to 4 years, but this removal of "prior days" is my main problem with this bill.

 

[jsm0085]

Just because we don't like it doesn't mean it isn't right.

A temp student or worker is not a lamded immigrant. Citizenship is something that is eventually avaliable to pr's - not temp residents. Just because we don't like it doesn't make it discrimination. It's a flawed agurment.

Again for those of us who intend to make canada our home this really isn't an issue - we have the right to remain! For those who just wanted the passport - life just got tougher and that's exactly what the government wish to acheive.

 

[sashali78]

Just because we don't like it doesn't mean it isn't right.

A temp student or worker is not a lamded immigrant. Citizenship is something that is eventually avaliable to pr's - not temp residents. Just because we don't like it doesn't make it discrimination. It's a flawed agurment.

Again for those of us who intend to make canada our home this really isn't an issue - we have the right to remain! For those who just wanted the passport - life just got tougher and that's exactly what the government wish to acheive.

You are repeating yourself and your position without reference to facts or points I raised. I will help you to understand my claims, try to answer the below questions by yourself:
1. How will abolishing of counting pre-PR time prevent fraud?
2. How will it make Canadian Citizenship stronger?
3. Isn't it coming in direct controversy to Minister's saying with regards to developing Canadian ties? Aren't those start to form during temporary residence?
4. Are the taxes and involvement of temporary residents in Canadian life less of newly landed immigrants?
5. And finally why should one group be affected x2 than others by the new law?
I am not asking to fully equate temporary to permanent status (although many countries do , like Australia for example and there is really no reason not to) but isn't the new amendment just a slap on the face?
I am not aware of your story, but let me tell you mine in short. I was a FSW applicant of 2007. I came to work in Canada in middle of 2010. In 2012 my FSW file was cancelled following Bill C-38 and I re-applied under CEC in 2012, and in the end, 3+ years after I got my PR. The Bill C-38 was unfair, cancelling retroactively hundreds of thousands of applications and I was hit by it and my PR delayed by at least 2-2.5 years. Now I, as well as others, wil lbe hit by the new Bill. You think it's fair?
I also know of worse stories, of international students living here for 7-8 and more years and gaining PR just recently due to these or other reasons.

 

[ferna]

Totally agreed with your points sashali78. And I am really sorry that you've hit by these stupid bills for the second time. I've been here for 6 years now and have not been able to get my PR yet. I know that immigration system has problems and government has to fix it. But the way they are going is not helpful at all. I can see in my community some people just come here to get their passports and have no intention of living here in Canada. On the other hand we have been here for years, gained Canadian university degrees, worked here as professionals, filed taxes and yet still we have to wait and wait! These days I am really disappointed by governments and Canadian people when I read their comments regarding immigrants. Canada does not seem to be welcoming anymore, sadddd....

 

[maza]

Totqlly agree with. It is their right to do what they want to do with their citizenship, but also mobilty and freedom is a human right. If i gain enough money in 7-8 months a year.. and want to enjoy the rest of my year outside why are they preventing us from that by asking us to be physically here for 9 months at least for 6 consecutive year!! And then one more till we swear the oath!! Many or most canadians go south for 4 months in the winter.. and go to europe for fun in the summer.. The government is doing this not because they want to give the passport a value.. but to prevent many from getting it.. so simply to bring people here to work and pay taxes and then kick them out.. whaton earth would give you more feeling of security and satability in Canada more than a passport?
Besides many immigration programsare for investors... who won't stay here.. bht put millions of money and investments in the system and create jobs... sashli and ferna .. some people do not understand how the world is run.. dont waste your time arguing.. this Act wont pass..

Goodluck...

 

[jsm0085]

Firstly, to those who are making comments regarding posts that they don't like, there is no need to be rude. It's a discussion form - people will express how they feel. If you don't agree, that's okay. But just because you don't agree, doesn't mean others don't have valid points. Manners cost nothing.

1. How will abolishing of counting pre-PR time prevent fraud?

It's not all about Fraud. It's about preventing people getting the passport who intend to reap the benefits of being Canadian at a later date, while exploring opportunities in other countries in the interim. Numerous people get the passport, go to countries where the tax rate is low, live their for decades, and return to Canada at a later date for healthcare etc. This costs all of us who are in Canada money. This is an issue - and it's one they are trying to prevent. While you are here as a temporary resident you are either studying or working and you are usually bound to a specific course / job - a job that is meeting the Canadian labor market needs. You are a temporary resident - nothing else. By allowing people to count time as a temp resident towards citizenship, people will happily stay an extra year or two in the country - even though their ultimate plan is to leave. Canada is trying to prevent this. They don't want people to think getting Citizenship is easy... They want people, us, to appreciate it's true value.

2. How will it make Canadian Citizenship stronger?

As people will need to wait longer, those who don't really want to settle down in Canada will likely not go through the process. If they intend to leave, chances are waiting another 4 years may be too long for them. It won't deal with everyone, but it will definitely make it harder for a good portion of them.

3. Isn't it coming in direct controversy to Minister's saying with regards to developing Canadian ties? Aren't those start to form during temporary residence?

For some sure, but not for all. Either way, a temporary resident has no right to assume, nor should they have an expectation, that this time will be counted towards Citizenship.

4. Are the taxes and involvement of temporary residents in Canadian life less of newly landed immigrants?

No, but that's not the point. As a temporary resident, you are effectively a visitor of Canada. You are not a landed immigrant thus don't have the same rights as a PR or Citizen.

5. And finally why should one group be affected x2 than others by the new law?

You talk about "groups". A temp resident is a visitor. A PR is a landed immigrant. A landed immigrant has the right to apply for Citizenship, a temp resident does not. Canada has the right to determine what they think the eligibility criteria should be. This is not discrimination... Citizenship is not a right!

 

[LPS]

I'm inclined to agree. Let's get real. While freedom of movement is a fundamental human right, Canadian citizenship is very much the prerogative of the Canadian government, and it is not unreasonable to expect sincere citizenship applicants to demonstrate a commitment to living here.

Over six years of permanent residence, you can spend as much as two years outside the country - that is the equivalent of four months every year - and still apply for citizenship! If you want mobility, then there it is.

Temporary residence leads to permanent residence; PR leads to citizenship. The principle that temporary residence is worth less than permanent residence is already entrenched (each day only counts as half).

Citizenship certainly has great symbolic importance, but what is the great hardship about remaining PR for longer? You can't vote?

 

[Konan1982]

I signed, how can I look how many people signed?

 

[atuls1317]

Does anyone know any other source that contains information about the temporary residents part ? I tried searching and I was able to find everything about the new bill but Couldn't find any information on the temporary residents part.

 

[maza]

http://m.thestar.com/#!/opinion/how-to-read-ottawas-latest-immigration-changes-siddiqui/b8403b92660a77b4c22e1a4969439269

Worth reading

 

[hamad0313]

I would say increase the eligibility time to 10 years or 20 years......most of us would not care as we are well settled here in Canada for the last 4 or 5 years , the thing which bothers me is that all my hard work all my taxes and all those ties which I have developed during the past 5 years are not being recognized, appreciated or considered, in other words they are making those who have contributed and are well integrated into the society, equal to those landed immigrant who come with a family of six , claim various tax subsidies and child benefits, dont upgrade their skills and instead of boosting the Canadian economy become burden to it....

Firstly, to those who are making comments regarding posts that they don't like, there is no need to be rude. It's a discussion form - people will express how they feel. If you don't agree, that's okay. But just because you don't agree, doesn't mean others don't have valid points. Manners cost nothing.

1. How will abolishing of counting pre-PR time prevent fraud?

It's not all about Fraud. It's about preventing people getting the passport who intend to reap the benefits of being Canadian at a later date, while exploring opportunities in other countries in the interim. Numerous people get the passport, go to countries where the tax rate is low, live their for decades, and return to Canada at a later date for healthcare etc. This costs all of us who are in Canada money. This is an issue - and it's one they are trying to prevent. While you are here as a temporary resident you are either studying or working and you are usually bound to a specific course / job - a job that is meeting the Canadian labor market needs. You are a temporary resident - nothing else. By allowing people to count time as a temp resident towards citizenship, people will happily stay an extra year or two in the country - even though their ultimate plan is to leave. Canada is trying to prevent this. They don't want people to think getting Citizenship is easy... They want people, us, to appreciate it's true value.

2. How will it make Canadian Citizenship stronger?

As people will need to wait longer, those who don't really want to settle down in Canada will likely not go through the process. If they intend to leave, chances are waiting another 4 years may be too long for them. It won't deal with everyone, but it will definitely make it harder for a good portion of them.

3. Isn't it coming in direct controversy to Minister's saying with regards to developing Canadian ties? Aren't those start to form during temporary residence?

For some sure, but not for all. Either way, a temporary resident has no right to assume, nor should they have an expectation, that this time will be counted towards Citizenship.

4. Are the taxes and involvement of temporary residents in Canadian life less of newly landed immigrants?

No, but that's not the point. As a temporary resident, you are effectively a visitor of Canada. You are not a landed immigrant thus don't have the same rights as a PR or Citizen.

5. And finally why should one group be affected x2 than others by the new law?

You talk about "groups". A temp resident is a visitor. A PR is a landed immigrant. A landed immigrant has the right to apply for Citizenship, a temp resident does not. Canada has the right to determine what they think the eligibility criteria should be. This is not discrimination... Citizenship is not a right!

 

[sashali78]

Firstly, to those who are making comments regarding posts that they don't like, there is no need to be rude. It's a discussion form - people will express how they feel. If you don't agree, that's okay. But just because you don't agree, doesn't mean others don't have valid points. Manners cost nothing.

1. How will abolishing of counting pre-PR time prevent fraud?

It's not all about Fraud. It's about preventing people getting the passport who intend to reap the benefits of being Canadian at a later date, while exploring opportunities in other countries in the interim. Numerous people get the passport, go to countries where the tax rate is low, live their for decades, and return to Canada at a later date for healthcare etc. This costs all of us who are in Canada money. This is an issue - and it's one they are trying to prevent. While you are here as a temporary resident you are either studying or working and you are usually bound to a specific course / job - a job that is meeting the Canadian labor market needs. You are a temporary resident - nothing else. By allowing people to count time as a temp resident towards citizenship, people will happily stay an extra year or two in the country - even though their ultimate plan is to leave. Canada is trying to prevent this. They don't want people to think getting Citizenship is easy... They want people, us, to appreciate it's true value.

2. How will it make Canadian Citizenship stronger?

As people will need to wait longer, those who don't really want to settle down in Canada will likely not go through the process. If they intend to leave, chances are waiting another 4 years may be too long for them. It won't deal with everyone, but it will definitely make it harder for a good portion of them.

3. Isn't it coming in direct controversy to Minister's saying with regards to developing Canadian ties? Aren't those start to form during temporary residence?

For some sure, but not for all. Either way, a temporary resident has no right to assume, nor should they have an expectation, that this time will be counted towards Citizenship.

4. Are the taxes and involvement of temporary residents in Canadian life less of newly landed immigrants?

No, but that's not the point. As a temporary resident, you are effectively a visitor of Canada. You are not a landed immigrant thus don't have the same rights as a PR or Citizen.

5. And finally why should one group be affected x2 than others by the new law?

You talk about "groups". A temp resident is a visitor. A PR is a landed immigrant. A landed immigrant has the right to apply for Citizenship, a temp resident does not. Canada has the right to determine what they think the eligibility criteria should be. This is not discrimination... Citizenship is not a right!

Thank you for taking the time and explaining your views.
1. I do not think that raising the requirement by 1 or 2 years will help to screen those people out. If you really want to make it fool proof system, make the requirements to be 10 years...Besides, isn't that just a form of collective punishment for 100 in order to isolate and catch just 1?
2. Same as above. Whoever waited 10 years under student or work visa, will wait another 4 years. Maybe whoever THINKING of coming to Canada and abusing the system in the future will think now twice. But that's again just punishing of the current population in order to "scare" the future "abusers". It's not just and doesn't make any sense.
3. I am happy you partially agree with this one. And i do not agree to your view that temporary resident has no right to expect. Everyone making an educated choice of coming to work temporarily is weighting his chances to become permanent resident or citizen in a later stage based on the laws of that country.
4. That doesn't answer the intent of my original question..It is not about the rights. It is about the ties one develop in Canada.
5. And again here, I am talking about certain group hit twice as hard as others. Same group which has more ties and relation to Canada than any other group. This is a targeted kill. Perhaps discrimination is not a perfect word to describe it, but I am not a native English speaker, perhaps you can help to name it?

 

[Natalka86]

I don't really understand what is all this fuss about. This is nothing new if you ever heard how the process went before. I followed threads about citizenship application process on this and other forums. If you are really curious- go read operational manuals for officers about citizenship. It says black on white there: people who use their time in Canada prior to PR should be red flagged during processing. And this was the exact thing officers were following for previous years. It's known that people who used their "half-time" got RQ more often than others, and many opted for waiting a year longer but saving 2 on processing. What I am saying is, if they will sign this bill, they will prove what they were doing before, nothing more.

Another thing I want to point out. Let's remember that we are all strangers here. We came to this country and we want to stay here, nobody enforces us. We will have to follow the rules of the game we decided to play. It's Canada right to decide how they process their citizens. We have to be grateful to have a chance to live here and pay our taxes here, not where we came from. hamad0313, What kind of gratitude you are talking about? How does it "diminish all hard work all taxes and all those ties which you have developed"? What makes your life so miserable if you have to wait another year as PR? Have you ever though how many people in the world would like to be on your place now without any complaints?

Not that I am happy with these changes, I have been here for 3 years and still waiting for PR, but I respect the reality and I don't see the point of ranting about this issue. The ways people get their PR would be much hotter and rewarding topic for rant.

 

[sashali78]

I don't really understand what is all this fuss about. This is nothing new if you ever heard how the process went before. I followed threads about citizenship application process on this and other forums. If you are really curious- go read operational manuals for officers about citizenship. It says black on white there: people who use their time in Canada prior to PR should be red flagged during processing. And this was the exact thing officers were following for previous years. It's known that people who used their "half-time" got RQ more often than others, and many opted for waiting a year longer but saving 2 on processing. What I am saying is, if they will sign this bill, they will prove what they were doing before, nothing more.

Another thing I want to point out. Let's remember that we are all strangers here. We came to this country and we want to stay here, nobody enforces us. We will have to follow the rules of the game we decided to play. It's Canada right to decide how they process their citizens. We have to be grateful to have a chance to live here and pay our taxes here, not where we came from. hamad0313, What kind of gratitude you are talking about? How does it "diminish all hard work all taxes and all those ties which you have developed"? What makes your life so miserable if you have to wait another year as PR? Have you ever though how many people in the world would like to be on your place now without any complaints?

Not that I am happy with these changes, I have been here for 3 years and still waiting for PR, but I respect the reality and I don't see the point of ranting about this issue. The ways people get their PR would be much hotter and rewarding topic for rant.

And you seriously think that RQ process and red flagging for temporary residence was fair and just? May I remind you that RQ process was introduced not so long ago to fight "fraud" but instead just created unreasonable backlog in Citizenship applications? You may want to read some more opinions about the RQ process and ways Tory's dealt with Citizenship applications in the last years. RQ can't find fraud. The only way to fight fraud is to have a cleat entry/exit record border system. Instead Tory's chose a way of collective punishment against the general population of citizenship seekers.

Regarding your second clause, I am a PR, and even before I become PR I was living and raising my children in Canada under same Canadian Charter of Rights as any Canadians. I feel a lot of gratitude to Canada and it's people to let people like me to come and live here. And in return I want to make a difference myself by improving and making Canada better and fairer country. The new laws are trying to prevent my involvement in Canadian life and I oppose that and will use the aforementioned rights to fight it in Civilized Democratic way. Isn't it what Canada and democracy all about?