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Sign petition: New citizenship rules affecting foreign workers

LPS

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Aug 7, 2013
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Well yeah... it is a risk to issue credit to residents without strong ties to the community, and whose status in Canada literally has an expiry date. There is a price on that risk. The fact that foreign credit histories are not recognized is not ideal, but this situation is hardly unique to Canada.

And a mortgage? Why should temporary residents be shopping for real estate?

These inconveniences are part and parcel to being a temporary worker and that's why permanent residence is more than just a work permit with no expiry date printed on it.
 

CECapplicantXX

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Jul 3, 2013
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fkl said:
There are a lot of things many NON temp resident people do not know and see it as fair based upon their limited knowledge.

Apart from taxes (which is a fair deal since you are reaping other benefits), temp workers pay all long term things like pension plans (which they might not get unless they get a PR), old age benefits etc.

And they have a very hard time getting any sort of credit be it a credit card, car financiing / leasing / mortgage etc. Plus there are no child care contributions for a certain amount of time already (1.5 years).

Please do not confuse this with visit visas. TWP programs are used because the PR processing times are too long for any practical purpose.

And there might be people who were doing very good in home countries, got a good job offer (because they possessed some special skills that were hard to find in Canada), came over here foreseeing some advantages and latter discovered they are not eligible for any long term planning here. Cannot mortgage a house, cannot even get a car lease going beyond work permit expiry. Even if they do some how get credit cards and have PERFECT history, still banks wouldn't charge them much higher interest rate for any short term e.g. car financing merely because they are TEMP residents.

This is differential treatment and specially for people with very stable career and life back home WHO DID NOT KNOW what it meant to be a temp resident, it is quite a shock. Having been lived through these situations while contributing MORE than a regular citizen to govt of Canada (because you have the same financial obligations as them, but are not eligible for all benefits as them) does sound deserving more than a person who merely landed today as a PR. This is exactly the definition of being fair and by the way most developed countries do have SOME path to citizenship if you have been working there for a while. It is true that time frames vary and Canadian ones are good. But that is exactly the reason Canada is being preferred in many ways and it is not done by Canadian government out of gratitude. It is purely based upon their needs of getting qualified humans to be added to this country. It is far less populated country than any other in the world and the immigration programs and counts clearly reflect those.

Well said :)!!
 

ZingyDNA

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Aug 12, 2013
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LPS said:
And a mortgage? Why should temporary residents be shopping for real estate?
Why not, if they can financially afford it? They can always sell the house if they leave the country in the future?
 

fkl

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Apr 25, 2013
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LPS said:
Well yeah... it is a risk to issue credit to residents without strong ties to the community, and whose status in Canada literally has an expiry date. There is a price on that risk. The fact that foreign credit histories are not recognized is not ideal, but this situation is hardly unique to Canada.

And a mortgage? Why should temporary residents be shopping for real estate?

These inconveniences are part and parcel to being a temporary worker and that's why permanent residence is more than just a work permit with no expiry date printed on it.
Well if status has an expiry date, then you shouldn't be charging Pension and other old age contributions from these people. Specially when you are not allowing child benefits for a good length of time. What if when these people apply for PR and get refused for some reason. Government doesn't return any of those deductions. Shouldn't they be returning when they claim "this is a deduction for your old age benefits OR this is what we will pay you if you become disabled or out of job".

The YOU is for permanent residents. Either you count temp workers / students IN OR OUT. It cannot be that when you wish to CHARGE MONEY from them, they are included but it goes the opposite, when time comes to pay them.

I agree with the difficulty on recognizing credit histories. But all these factors combined makes one feel quite odd. The least they could have done is, get some thing establish with employers. All over the world many banks maintain relationships with employers. Their business is the guarantee. If a person is here on a well paid job, you cannot expect him to default say 1/6th of that amount from a credit card. The fact is that having a job doesn't change ANY thing in this regard unfortunately, which was shocking to me.

Another point is, it is rarely seen in practice as a temp thing. People don't fly half way across the world just for the sake of having fun for a couple years. In most cases it is done with the intention of moving permanently and the reason of starting with tfw program is that the timings of government for immigration are just impossible for any business.

Also one more thing is that none of these are written on paper as such any where. You only realize those once you actually get to face them. Imagine a mid career guy who has had perfect credit history back home with banks running after him to get credit business and here situation turns exact opposite. Moreover, you just can't get away with most things without credit history even if you are willing to pay cash. Several land lords would ask for credit checks for rentals.

Imagine some body living through all this for a few years while contributing every thing a citizen does to society. Probably more because still apply for visa (pay fee) again if they travel abroad or any thing. To me it sounds VERY fair to give that person the credit of that time towards citizenship.

It is not about "how many years" you have to wait further. That is not an issue when you intend to make Canada your home. It is a question of fairness.

Seems like CIC has recognized it, hence the "express entry" to PR has been introduced. If you look at the minister's announcement, it highlights the exact same reasons i cited above, suggesting using those PR programs instead to get rid of all these issues.

Lastly, why not a mortgage? If some one wants to live permanently in the long run and doesn't want to waste all his spending each month on rent. He rather prefers paying more and end up owning something. Or as mentioned already, he could sell it if he plans to leave early. What is wrong with this as a right? I mean mostly people live on rent, it is a given. But the right to own a house, sounds like a pretty basic thing to me? No?
 

LPS

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All good points. Yes, temporary work is often a gateway to permanent residence and it's definitely a challenge to build up credit and status in a whole new country.

I guess it's not officially stated (e.g. by CIC) that newcomers might face challenges getting credit, but I feel anyone who arrives here without knowing that's the case has not done their homework. There are communities such as this one where we discuss these kinds of issues.

Banks do have a vital role in helping newcomers integrate in the community, but at the end of the day they are businesses that deal in risk. Clearly a newcomer is more of a risk whatever their status may be. It wasn't hard for me personally to get a credit card after being a TFW for a while, but others may have more restrictions, e.g. having to put down a deposit equal to the amount of credit.

As for the question of fairness from CIC, I'm looking forward to seeing how this petition goes and whether it has the desired effect.
 

fkl

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Apr 25, 2013
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Not doing home work part doesn't really stand out because again these things are not a given. The best of home work thing comes from close individual experiences. e.g. one has a close colleague who did get credit card easily. This made him assume he would too because they have similar jobs and back grounds. Only turned out latter that it was an individual favor from the specific bank manager.

Having spent a good deal of time on forums, i think there are too many variables covered e.g. i have never seen it discussed any where that a SIN starting with 9, for a temp resident is a plague for all such institutions. These aren't written rules so all you can hear is individual experiences which cannot be generalized.

Well personal experiences can vary, hence i am disregarding their importance. I also did get a credit card in like two months after landing and didn't have to pay a secure deposit for that. But that was entirely a situation based thing with some (RATHER ENTIRE) help from a branch manager and it still has a lot of restrictions. However, it is far better than not having one or having to secure deposit for getting one. So i KNOW for a fact that every new comer would face challenges with that.

Besides, it is not just limited to banks. You see a lot more e.g. deals from stores like sears, canadian tyre and what not come all the time. It is only when you plan on getting one that you get to know, they only accept their own credit cards for taking any of those deals and to get their card, similar restrictions would apply.

It is true that most of these issues get resolved with the passage of time (6 months or more). But the fact remains that this period (a year or two may be) are even harder than a resident while STILL full filling all obligations as a Canadian. It deserves credit of that time, which was the core of this discussion.
 

Matt the Aussie

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Mar 27, 2014
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When I first came to Canada, I was aware of the challenges with credit, but I was not prepared for banks to simply not care/ignore my previous credit history in Australia. My CC was issued as an exception by a branch manager, and I had to sit down and have a formal interview like I was applying for a mortgage.

As I've said before, I'm all for requiring that people demonstrate their commitment to living in Canada. For example, the PR residency requirement of 2 out of 5 years is insanely generous. But I also believe there should be credit given where credit is due. I've lived here 6 years. I don't expect anyone to hand me a medal (or a passport) but I also don't think I should be ranked below other PRs who came through a different category (e.g. refugees, family class etc.) who came in and got their PR on day 1 because their category allowed for it and mine did not.
 

fkl

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Matt the Aussie said:
When I first came to Canada, I was aware of the challenges with credit, but I was not prepared for banks to simply not care/ignore my previous credit history in Australia. My CC was issued as an exception by a branch manager, and I had to sit down and have a formal interview like I was applying for a mortgage.

As I've said before, I'm all for requiring that people demonstrate their commitment to living in Canada. For example, the PR residency requirement of 2 out of 5 years is insanely generous. But I also believe there should be credit given where credit is due. I've lived here 6 years. I don't expect anyone to hand me a medal (or a passport) but I also don't think I should be ranked below other PRs who came through a different category (e.g. refugees, family class etc.) who came in and got their PR on day 1 because their category allowed for it and mine did not.
Fully understand and agree. Same was the case with me, a very strong credit history from home country - totally discredited here. In my case the bank manager was on vacations so i had to wait for a month till she returned, evaluated my details and THEN approved an unsecured credit card. Although i belong to a country whose currency conversion with Canada is close to a 1 CAD - 90 locals. Still the limit i got here (and bank manager cannot change it even after several months of full use and paid bills) is like 1/10th of what i had back home. It is a fraction of even my take home monthly salary and if you look at the income charts banks lists as minimum salary requirements for a category, it is way better than most. So effectively it is not a real credit, though at least i am able to build a history here which is more important.

But i sure can tell you that one feels differentiated when you get calls from bank based upon your income for all sorts of promotions - only to discover latter that you are not eligible for even the basic one of these. It just looks too differentiated and perhaps more awkward to some body who has always faced the opposite in the past.

And it really is offending when you get to know that even a refuge who has a PR though does nothing else, is privileged for all of this. So at least having lived this way for a while at least deserves some recognition.
 

LPS

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Well, they're not going to just give a refugee whatever credit card he wants. It would still be commensurate to his salary and so on. But yes, having permanent legal status decreases your apparent credit risk. It just does.

In any case, whether you're TFW or PR, the credit bureaus in different countries generally do not talk to one another. This is a challenge for those of us with good credit, and it's great for people with lousy credit.
 

torontosm

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LPS said:
Well, they're not going to just give a refugee whatever credit card he wants. It would still be commensurate to his salary and so on. But yes, having permanent legal status decreases your apparent credit risk. It just does.

In any case, whether you're TFW or PR, the credit bureaus in different countries generally do not talk to one another. This is a challenge for those of us with good credit, and it's great for people with lousy credit.
Precisely! Well said. Also, banks obviously view PR's as lower credit risks than temporary workers as they are less likely to flee the country after racking up debts. The same policies are applicable in all established markets around the world.
 

sashali78

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Our group testifies in front of the Citizenship and Immigration committee on May,7 2014!

Please join us in congratulating Taya T. and Maria S. who had successfully represented our group in CIMM hearing with regards to Bill C-24. Although they were notified just one hour before the meeting that their speech time had to be cut in half due to scheduling issues, they managed to deliver a clear and convincing message which received broad support from committee members and was unanimously agreed upon by the expert witnesses from the ruling party!

Speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV56blSDpLM&feature=youtube_gdata&noredirect=1
Q&A1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGv-vDmDNXY&feature=youtube_gdata
Q&A2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5sCPDNG-Nw&feature=youtube_gdata
 

ZingyDNA

Champion Member
Aug 12, 2013
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App. Filed.......
28-06-2013
AOR Received.
28-08-2013
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21-02-2014 (principal applicant)
Med's Done....
07-03-2014 (both, upfront for spouse)
Passport Req..
10-04-2014
VISA ISSUED...
22-04-2014
LANDED..........
13-06-2014
VERY GOOD JOB! THANKS SO MUCH!!
 

CECapplicantXX

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Great job!!! thank you for all the hard work :)