Should residency obligations be stricter?

[CDNPR2014]

so at least 2 years or all 5, let's say which ever...what does that do to the PR now? i.e. can apply for citizenship now? (cause they already have a PR card so they're PR already)

i don't know what you mean by "what does that do to the PR now? PR residency requirements are not the same as citizenship requirements. citizenship requirements require you to be in canada for 4 out of 6 years i believe. one thing has nothing to do with the other, except for the fact that you can't meet the citizenship requirements without also meeting the pr residency requirements (i think).

 

[rsk8]

i don't know what you mean by "what does that do to the PR now?

i just means like what does this requirement mean? if they dont fulfill this, will they no longer be PR etc like in that sense.

 

[Aquakitty]

i just means like what does this requirement mean? if they dont fulfill this, will they no longer be PR etc like in that sense.

If you don't meet the RO and get caught, you won't be able to renew your PR card and will lose your PR status, departure/deportation order and all that.

 

[Buletruck]

If you don't meet the RO and get caught, you won't be able to renew your PR card and will lose your PR status, departure/deportation order and all that

And the problem is "if you get caught". They need to close the loop holes (access from the US by car, etc) that allows people to abuse the system. As a Canadian, I had to provide evidence we were settling in Canada. Everyone should have to supply evidence that when they land, they will spend a certain amount of time in country (it should be more than 720 days in 5 years and it should be an annual amount). And if your PR has expired and you don't meet RO, then thanks for coming....sorry to see you go! Appeals can be made through your home country embassy, and don't allow them to disappear into the Canadian wilderness until a decision is made. They seemed OK living where ever they were prior to the panic, so keep waiting there! Didn't meet the RO (regardless of the reason) appeal from the country you choose to live in other than canada. If you weren't planning on living here to begin with, stop wasting time and resources!

Sorry.....just burns my butt that people get a PR then never show up and find some lame excuse to try and circumvent the issue. It all costs the honest people money (they are your tax dollars after all)!

Tirade complete...thanks for your time

 

[nmclean]

Agreed, I have seen tons of people who abuse the system. And a great point is that if you remove all those PR applicants who don't plan on living in Canada right away, you will free up the resources to do genuine family class and other applications FASTER.

That's assuming their applications have cover pages stating "I don't plan on living in Canada right away", allowing them to be skipped up front. Otherwise, filtering these out would take more resources than it saves. In reality, I think these applications are being skipped, but it takes time to determine which ones they are. It's right here in their operation manual:

Sponsors may be found ineligible to sponsor if:

- there is evidence that they will leave Canada soon after the sponsored applicant
becomes a permanent resident. Sponsors must satisfy an officer they will
continue to reside in Canada after the member of the family class becomes a
permanent resident;

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/ip/ip02-eng.pdf - page 39

 

[CDNPR2014]

That's assuming their applications have cover pages stating "I don't plan on living in Canada right away", allowing them to be skipped up front. Otherwise, filtering these out would take more resources than it saves. In reality, I think these applications are being skipped, but it takes time to determine which ones they are. It's right here in their operation manual:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/ip/ip02-eng.pdf - page 39

this is probably why they are cracking down on SPOUSAL applications where sponsors are not currently in canada, and it's getting more difficult to get an app approved without providing substantial proof of intentions to settle upon approval. i remember a couple from 2014 who were refused (or maybe received an interview?) because their timeline for settlement was based on the timeline on CIC's website, not the timeline that actually occurs with approval. so the visa officer assumed they weren't ready to settle in canada when they really were. of course there are always going to be people who slip through the cracks or lie on the application (which in itself is a whole different issue - ie: misrepresentation) i would bet a majority of the people who are getting PR and not settling in canada are applying through another stream,where immediate settlement may not be a requirement. it doesn't seem to be as easy to do with spousal sponsorship.

 

[rsk8]

i would bet a majority of the people who are getting PR and not settling in canada are applying through another stream,where immediate settlement may not be a requirement. it doesn't seem to be as easy to do with spousal sponsorship.

nah bruh, people are getting married just cause & then not intendin to settle here but get what's good for em. kinda unfair. creating long line-ups for people who are dying to be with their spouses cause they're spouses are willing to work it out & make a life with us canadian partners here. as for its not easy with spousal sponsorship...think again, that's the thing.
people'd rather have a marriage & get into canada & i heard even later the couple seperates, the PR isnt deported (idk much, just heard) so would u go thru the hassle of applying thru a temporary work permit i.e. fear of rejection, expiry, loss of work & be long gone or just take a chance at ruining ton o' lives & giving others pain of long wait for us who long to be with our partners...

truss mi, the latter seems more easier for these insensitive potheads.

 

[nmclean]

nah bruh, people are getting married just cause & then not intendin to settle here but get what's good for em. kinda unfair. creating long line-ups for people who are dying to be with their spouses cause they're spouses are willing to work it out & make a life with us canadian partners here. as for its not easy with spousal sponsorship...think again, that's the thing.
people'd rather have a marriage & get into canada & i heard even later the couple seperates, the PR isnt deported (idk much, just heard) so would u go thru the hassle of applying thru a temporary work permit i.e. fear of rejection, expiry, loss of work & be long gone or just take a chance at ruining ton o' lives & giving others pain of long wait for us who long to be with our partners...

truss mi, the latter seems more easier for these insensitive potheads.

The number one reason for denied sponsorship is fraud/misrepresentation, but the number one reason for denied work permits is simple ineligibility. So even though there are more refusals for work permits, that doesn't mean it's more risky for someone attempting to take advantage of the system. If they do not have genuine intentions, then it would be more risky for them to go the family route, which specifically assesses the genuineness of their intentions, unlike other routes that just have straightforward admissibility checks.

 

[phamhainguyen68]

nah bruh, people are getting married just cause & then not intendin to settle here but get what's good for em. kinda unfair. creating long line-ups for people who are dying to be with their spouses cause they're spouses are willing to work it out & make a life with us canadian partners here. as for its not easy with spousal sponsorship...think again, that's the thing.
people'd rather have a marriage & get into canada & i heard even later the couple seperates, the PR isnt deported (idk much, just heard) so would u go thru the hassle of applying thru a temporary work permit i.e. fear of rejection, expiry, loss of work & be long gone or just take a chance at ruining ton o' lives & giving others pain of long wait for us who long to be with our partners...

truss mi, the latter seems more easier for these insensitive potheads.

Hi rsk8,

In order to apply for Work Permit/Skilled Worker stream, you have to be qualified to be able to work here (i.e. qualifications, degrees, language skills). For ones who meet all these requirements, they actually can apply to other countries as well (like you send your resume to multiple employers at the same time). However, for family sponsorship, all you need is to marry to someone who has eligible status in the country. That is why a lot of people who do not have sufficient qualifications or skill to migrate, their option is to sell their own happiness (and even worst, their bodies, if you know what I mean).

To be honest, I share sympathy to those people. Who would want to leave their birthplace, where the life standard is no way comparable to places like Canada or US? Who would want to marry to a stranger just to be able to migrate and hope they would have a better life for themselves and/or for their kids? My origin country is Vietnam, so I fully understand to these cases. All we can do is pray to God that our application would be processed as fast as possible so that we could be reunited.

 

[rsk8]

hmm - ur right tho lemme make it a bit clear from where im coming from:
not all people nor all pakistanis but many pakistani people, THEY'd WANT THAT exactly!

Who would want to leave their birthplace, where the life standard is no way comparable to places like Canada or US. Who would want to marry to a stranger just to be able to migrate and hope they would have a better life for themselves and/or for their kids?

for them, i guess marrying someone is easier (comparatively) than applying for work permits.

as for people who are holdin up the lines cause they've been filed my their sponsors (usually wives) & dont care to come here cause they're "settled" there, well its creating lags for people who genuinely want to be with their spouses. people like us.

 

[MNM2015]

Thank you all for your comments. I enjoyed reading everyone's opinions and agree with a lot of what was said. My comments were more general and not directed at family sponsorship. In fact I think in a lot of cases the issue is with the other streams.

I guess my main two points are:
1. there should be a way to ensure more people getting their PR actually settle in Canada
2. to continue the enjoy the benefits of being a PR of Canada I think you should have to spend more than 40% (2 years out of 5) of your time here

For my first point I would like to see other streams have to provide evidence of their intent to settle in Canada similar to what citizens residing out of Canada have to do for family sponsorship. I don't know why their burden of proof should be any less. However in practice I don't think this would help much as it's relatively easy to put together some evidence and then not actually follow through on it. I think requiring new PR's to reside in Canada for 2 years out of their first 3 would discourage people from going through the hassle and expense of applying if they don't actually intend to move, particularly if it was enforced and PR status was taken away once you've been away for a year. I think if people settle in Canada for a couple of years it is more likely they will decide to stay and contribute to society instead of just using their PR status to their advantage when it is convenient for them.

For my second point I would like to see the residency obligation after the initial period changed to be at least 2.5 but ideally 3 years out of 5. To be considered a "permanent" resident of Canada I think you should be spending more time in Canada than out. Once you no longer meet that your PR status should be taken away and like Buletruck said, any appeals of this should be from outside of Canada. I also agree with Buletruck that they need to immediately remove the loophole of getting into Canada by land and then meeting your residency obligation after you have been out of Canada too long.

I am all for immigration but want it to be for people who actually want to live in Canada and contribute to this country rather than people who just use it's benefits to their advantage. It's sad to me that people like that are taking places away from the thousands of people who genuinely want to build a better life for themselves and their families in Canada. With the residency obligations so lax and not strictly enforced anyway it's not surprising people are doing this. Sounds like it is much easier to get away with this in Canada than the USA and in my opinion the benefits are greater here (universal healthcare) so all the more reason to tighten up the rules.

I know this is mostly just a theoretical discussion as doubtful anything will be done to change this in the near future and some of what I suggest is difficult to enforce in practice but I think it's an important topic to shed some light on. I also know there are bigger immigration issues to tackle first, most importantly for those of us in this section is faster processing times for family sponsorship! However by better using the limited immigration resources we could see faster processing for all streams and by ensuring people aren't taking advantage of their PR status all Canadian tax payers would benefit.

 

[Buletruck]

I would actually like to see the requirements for a PR relaxed (for all the classes, not just spousal)for the most part, but the maintaining the PR requirements increased and actively monitored. This country is in desperate need of more people if it's going to maintain it's first world status, and with a population of 37 millionish, it isn't going to happen. As was noted, there are millions of people who would give their left arm for a chance to live here and get away from the poverty they currently live in, with no possible chance to improve on that situation. (I've lived in those countries and seen it for myself). Let them come and contribute, sponsor their siblings and parents and contribute to the growth here.

 

[etienbjel]

I agree. It needs an overhaul. Again.

It's very common here in the Middle East for people from Asian/African nations to apply for Canadian visas/citizenship just to get a better salary in the ME. With a Canadian passport, applicants can expect to be paid substantially more money than their colleagues from non-western countries (in some cases 3 to 5 x more). This attracts well educated people from developing countries to invest as little as 6 years of living in Canada just to acquire the passport, only to eventually return to GCC for the high tax-free salary, never intending to pay a dime in taxes to Canada. I have personally met 3 people here who have done this. I can understand their plight as they are treated extremely unfairly here compared to westerners. However, this shouldn't come at the cost of true applicants and certainly not Canadian taxes.

This article also sums it up http://english.alarabiya.net/en/perspective/features/2014/09/27/For-Arab-immigrants-a-Canadian-passport-and-a-GCC-job-may-no-longer-mix-.html. The articles says that things have improved since the new legislation, but I am hearing that Canada still remains the easiest western country to acquire a passport for getting higher salaries in the ME.

 

[California2Canada]

Hi all. I know this is an older thread, but I'm curious your thoughts. For background, I am American and my fiancee is Canadian. Sorry this is so long!

To start, I completely understand why you would not want people taking advantage of your system (health care, etc.) if they have no intention of being in Canada. My question for you, generally, is what about people who legitimately want to live back and forth in two countries? What is your advice on doing this the right way?

I came here 5 months ago on a visitor visa, and currently applying for a one year visitor extension. However, my wife-to-be and I are getting married next month, and planned to apply for PR under spousal sponsorship.

The initial reason for the visa extension is 1) my current visa would run out just before our wedding (and, ya know, I should probably be at my own wedding ;-) ) and 2) from what I understand, leaving Canada even for a visit means you lose implied status. Therefore when we go on our honeymoon to the US a few weeks after our wedding, I would not automatically be allowed back in Canada as my visa would be expired and I would no longer have IS.

Now we are caught in a bit of a predicament. By the time I am granted PR, I will likely have been in Canada for 12-18 months, depending on processing times. However, from reading it sounds like any time in Canada before landing as a PR (not as a regular visitor, and not as a PR in waiting) won't count towards my RO.

The concern comes from the fact that we are looking to return to the US next year. It could be as early as September 2018 (20 months after I first arrived), or as late as Jan. 2019 (2 years after first arrival). We plan to be in the US anywhere from 2 years to 4 years, but we really have no idea yet. We want to start a seasonal business and travel, and truly go between both countries.

So, for those wondering "Why are these people applying for PR with no intention to stay" it's because (at least in our case) we are trying to keep me here legally for the time we are indeed living in Canada. At the same time, we aren't sure if we should, in the end, apply for PR right after we get married because we have no idea if we will fulfill the RO requirement. Depending on the processing time and when we decide to leave, my accumulated time towards RO before returning to the US could be as little as a few months. Then what happens if we end up settling in the US for longer than planned (possibility) and there's no chance of meeting the RO for my PR?

The last thing we want to do is waste time, money, & resources (our own & the govt) applying for PR if we don't need to, and are planning to relocate to the US. But at the same time, how am I supposed to stay with my wife for the next year and a half or so if we don't? We love both countries and want to spend time in both. But we just don't really know what the future holds yet.

Any experience on Americans getting more than one visa extension? Any experience on having issues coming & going from Canada on just a visa extension but no proof of having applied for PR? We kind of assumed I'd have a hard time getting back in without showing that I am awaiting PR , but if a visa extension is enough, and there is a strong liklihood I can get another extension after this (to keep me here until we move) then we'd like to save applying for PR until down the road when we return.

 

[scylla]

If your wife is a Canadian citizens, then the time you spend living with her outside of Canada can be counted towards the PR residency requirement. So pretty easy to meet RO provided you stay together.