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Second refusal on the same grounds

Discussion in 'Visitors' started by gulliverlow, Oct 12, 2018.

  1. Hello!

    I was denied the second year in a row with the exact same checkboxes ticked.

    I am not satisfied that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay as a temporary resident, as stipulated in paragraph 179(b) of the IRPR, based on your travel history.

    I am not satisfied that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay as a temporary resident, as stipulated in paragraph 179(b) of the IRPR, based on the purpose of your visit.

    I am not satisfied that you will leave Canada at the end of your stay as a temporary resident, as stipulated in paragraph 179(b) of the IRPR, based on your personal assets and financial status.
    I live in Cuba, in both years I was trying to attend a Canadian software conference. I presented a proper invitation letter, proof of 100CAD per day for a stay no longer than 15 days, and the previous Schengen visa for a similar software conference in Europe. I am married with a stable job, no children or dependants.

    Should I take that attending a software conference is not a valid reason to visit Canada?
    How many previous visa travels do I need for a successful travel history?
    What's the rule of thumb of money per days? How much money do I have to save on top of the travel costs?
    Also, both years I end up being processed by consulates outside of Cuba (Peru and México.) Should I stop applying online and apply on paper next time?
     
  2. Have you visited other conferences with your Schengen visa? For this conference is it paid by yourself or some employer? Where would you stay? $100 per day might not be enough if you have to pay your own way and pay for hotel. I have seen the number $1000 per week thrown around here as a good number but I think its arbitrary.
     
  3. Most costs covered by me except the conference food. Yes, the previous Schengen visa was to attend a similar conference in an European country (one week.) I didn't present proof of accommodation or flight tickets. Not sure if it's wise to incurr in partially refundable (or non-refundable) costs just to support the visa case.
     
  4. no it is not a good idea to purchase tickets before visa approval. I believe accommodation can be cancelled if you don't receive the visa, I would look into that.
    Sorry so how many countries did you visit on that Schengen visa?
     
    gulliverlow likes this.
  5. Did you show letters of employment and bank statements?

    Did you show documentation about this conference, and a letter from your company why you should attend?
     
    gulliverlow likes this.
  6. It is rather easy to get invited to conferences. What matters are the documents submitted for this purpose.

    1. If your employer believed you need to attend the conference, they would have paid for all aspects (conference fees, airfare, hotel, food, etc etc). The fact that you are paying for the visit does not help your visa approval.

    2. Did you prove why it is necessary for you to attend this conference?

    3. Why would you visit for 15 days when typically conferences are only for a couple of days?

    4. Did you submit a detailed day-by-day plan with expense estimates right to the last cent?

    5. Is a similar conference scheduled in Mexico or another country?

    6. What documents did you submit for your employment + your other ties?


    Other applicants have been successful for the same purpose of visit.


    You have not traveled to other visa-required countries which would have established that you had met the visa entry requirements for those countries + you were a genuine, short stay visitor.


    It's like this:
    If you earn CAD 1,000 (just to explain this point) but the visit would cost CAD 500, the visa officer will question the applicant's intentions. It would seem like someone is not a genuine visitor, but is visiting for some other reasons.


    Visa officers are trained to assess visa applications with the same set of assessment criteria. It does not matter if an applicant submits an online or a paper application from any part of the world
     
  7. @Bryanna thanks for all your considerations. Let me respond here so I can be clarified in order to have better chances next time.

    1. If your employer believed you need to attend the conference, they would have paid for all aspects (conference fees, airfare, hotel, food, etc etc). The fact that you are paying for the visit does not help your visa approval.

    I am self-employed as software developer.​

    2. Did you prove why it is necessary for you to attend this conference?

    In general, I doubt anyone can prove necessity to attend an open conference. I was successful in getting a visa for attending a similar conference in Europe without providing compulsory reasons. Could you please hint me in how could I prove necessity apart from the obvious? I mean, writting a letter explaining how much I would learn and benefit from networking didn't work for me the first year.​

    3. Why would you visit for 15 days when typically conferences are only for a couple of days?

    Good point. It was based on flight availability. The shorter I could stay was for a week, but then I would arrive at the end of the first day of a three days conference, which didn't feel good either. I explained this the first year and it didn't help.​

    4. Did you submit a detailed day-by-day plan with expense estimates right to the last cent?

    No, but thanks for hinting that such thing is required.​

    5. Is a similar conference scheduled in Mexico or another country?

    Definitely. There are conferences of this kind all over the world but not in my own country. I take from this that I should probably attend one or two conferences of this kind outside Canada before being admissible for the Canadian edition. Nevertheless, it's quite hard to get a visa for just about anywhere, being a Cuban. Mexico visa website is never available, Colombia was filled with Cubans last February because US visa applications were moved there due to the "sonic incidents," Dominical Republic requires a person to sign a document becoming responsible for your stay, etc.​

    6. What documents did you submit for your employment + your other ties?

    Proof of my self-employment license, bank draft of past 6 months and nothing more. Last year I wrote a letter explaining my family situation, the position I hold at my local church, etc. and it didn't help at all. This year I didn't submit a letter, it just felt like a desperate attempt to prove my ties. Looks like the only ties that are valid for these cases are properties. I should be able to provide the property of a house next time, not this year because paperwork has not finished yet. (I am baffled that leaving your spouse behind is not considered a tie, and at the same time I redress their reasoning because sooo many Cubans have left whole families behind in order to seek refugee.)​

    It's like this:
    If you earn CAD 1,000 (just to explain this point) but the visit would cost CAD 500, the visa officer will question the applicant's intentions. It would seem like someone is not a genuine visitor, but is visiting for some other reasons.

    So, what's the general rule of thumb regarding the ratio savings / visit costs? What would seem reasonable to them? 30%, 20%? I mean, it's quite obvious that I spend my savings in whatever I want but it's not my own mind I should convince here. I read somewhere in this blog that I should prove like 10k before attempting a 1k trip. Is that correct?​

    ---

    Overall, it looks like I underdocumented my application both years. The single file upload flow in the online application made me feel somehow that a single proof per line was enough, and from your answers it looks like that's not the case. Lesson learned. I also have the feeling that the bar is too high for me for attending software conferences, in terms of the Canadian standards, so I probably won't apply again for a couple of years in order to not burn my travel history (already have 4 denials in North America versus 1 approval in Europe.)

    Any other help is very much appreciated for the future. Thank you all fellows :)
     

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