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Request for documents while outside Canada - help please!

akbardxb

Champion Member
Nov 18, 2013
1,244
464
Mississauga
LANDED..........
28-03-2014
FINALLY . . . impressions matter. I have emphasized again and again that apart from the essentials, that is apart from actually meeting the eligibility requirements, properly completing the application, and following through with the process, the next most important factor is the applicant's credibility. A factor that is very, very difficult to define. A factor that is not amenable to formulaic criteria (except the obvious: the more mistakes or discrepancies there are in an applicant's information, the more damage that does to the applicant's credibility). But a factor that can have a huge impact on how things go. Many in this forum are adverse to acknowledging the negative impact on credibility it can have if they appear to be exploiting the Canadian immigration system for the purpose of obtaining a Canadian passport with little intent to actually settle in Canada permanently. But only a modicum of common-sense is needed to see how that perception, that appearance, that impression, can lead a total stranger bureaucrat to have questions and go digging deeper, and to do so with a not particularly favourable frame of mind.
@BogusApplicant I couldn't agree more with @dpenabill 's view and have first hand experience of how things can go pear shaped in no time. I couldn't have been more accurate in my citizenship application, applied with an excess of 150 days and can give a sworn testimony that there was no misrepresentation in my application, yet, I am unlikely to ever forget the interview. Please bear in mind that as far as IRCC is concerned, all citizenship applicants are 'guilty unless proven otherwise' - the onus of proving your presence in Canada is entirely your responsibility. The quantum on your T4 will not make a difference, but the presence or absence of a T4 could make all the difference. Anyway, long story short, I'm at DM in the old system (so hopefully one of the 60,000 awaiting oath). Fingers crossed.
 

BogusApplicant

Star Member
Nov 22, 2015
83
13
À
The risk of non-routine processing is personal, relative to the particular facts and circumstances in the individual's own case. As you previously noted, some of the risk factors apply as much to applicants remaining in Canada.

It appears you have approached this process with about as much care and consideration as is practically feasible.

That said, anyone can get RQ or be referred for a CBSA/NSSD background investigation regarding physical presence. So there is no guaranteed way to avoid the risk of RQ altogether, or other presence related non-routine processing.

Risk factors, like risk in life in general, are cumulative. Thus, for example, applicants who recognize they have this or that risk factor (mine was being self-employed providing services entirely exported abroad -- my business is in Canada, this is where I work, but all of what I do is sold to clients/customers outside Canada) should consider if they can offset that risk in other ways, such as waiting longer to apply with a more sustained paper and digital trail of a life in Canada and a bigger margin of presence (which is what I did).

Nonetheless, since the criteria for triggering a CBSA investigation is secret, and the RQ criteria has now been secret for nearly a decade (OB 407 was implemented in April 2012), the best prospective applicants can do is:
-- use common sense (examples: the more clearly settled in Canada at the time of the application, the lower the risk; the more ongoing residential or employment ties the applicant has outside Canada, the bigger the risk)​
-- apply with a good margin of presence over the minimum (and if other risk factors are implicated, wait to apply with an even bigger margin; again referencing my own experience)​
-- be accurate and complete in the application, and timely and appropriately respond to all requests and appear for events as scheduled​
-- and some applicants may want to wait longer to apply if a significant part of their time in Canada was transient in nature; obviously, the more solid the address and work history while in Canada, the stronger the case, the less likely a total stranger bureaucrat will have questions or concerns about the applicant's physical presence​

I realize that it may seem counter-intuitive, particularly for individuals coming from some socio-political-cultural backgrounds, but there is very little indication that financial success is much of a factor. Of course affluence can affect the overall picture in other ways that have positive influence, such as where it is reflected in address and employment stability (the applicant more clearly well-settled and established in Canada has less risk, obviously, that there will be questions about where they have been during the eligibility period). But generally, so far as I have seen, making more money does not make more points. (One of the many things I like about Canada.)

For the applicant who relocates abroad, affluence can be a big factor in the logistical risks, like being able to return to Canada on short notice.

But for PRs like @younan02, for example, the devil is in the details. The particular facts and circumstances in THEIR own particular situation, AND their own HISTORY, will influence how much risk there is they will encounter non-routine processing, potential delays, and for some potentially a strict approach to assessing their qualifications which, again depending on the specific details in their case, could even jeopardize the outcome.

FINALLY . . . impressions matter. I have emphasized again and again that apart from the essentials, that is apart from actually meeting the eligibility requirements, properly completing the application, and following through with the process, the next most important factor is the applicant's credibility. A factor that is very, very difficult to define. A factor that is not amenable to formulaic criteria (except the obvious: the more mistakes or discrepancies there are in an applicant's information, the more damage that does to the applicant's credibility). But a factor that can have a huge impact on how things go. Many in this forum are adverse to acknowledging the negative impact on credibility it can have if they appear to be exploiting the Canadian immigration system for the purpose of obtaining a Canadian passport with little intent to actually settle in Canada permanently. But only a modicum of common-sense is needed to see how that perception, that appearance, that impression, can lead a total stranger bureaucrat to have questions and go digging deeper, and to do so with a not particularly favourable frame of mind.
I'm also thinking, if me establishing residence in Vancouver and commute to work every week (just me spending Friday night to Monday morning in Canada, while my family lives in Seattle and me spending time away from them), would legally enable me to keep a Canadian address in my application. Does this help?

Also found this in IRCC website -
"Applicants residing outside Canada may not be able to provide Canadian identity documents. Applicants can provide foreign identity documents that are equivalent to Canadian identity documents, such as a passport or government-issued identification documents."

It does acknowledge that applicants can, not just temporarily leave Canada, but can actually live abroad while the Citizenship is being processed.

It also says the below -
"Officers must consider what documents are available in the foreign country and, where possible, seek appropriate confirmation of the authenticity of the identity documents through the Canadian consular mission that has the local expertise in the foreign country."

Definitely scope for delay in processing. Not sure if this fits into non routine processing.

In my case, Ive submitted Canadian ID's with my application. Do I have to submit new ID when I eventually move abroad?
 

BogusApplicant

Star Member
Nov 22, 2015
83
13
@BogusApplicant I couldn't agree more with @dpenabill 's view and have first hand experience of how things can go pear shaped in no time. I couldn't have been more accurate in my citizenship application, applied with an excess of 150 days and can give a sworn testimony that there was no misrepresentation in my application, yet, I am unlikely to ever forget the interview. Please bear in mind that as far as IRCC is concerned, all citizenship applicants are 'guilty unless proven otherwise' - the onus of proving your presence in Canada is entirely your responsibility. The quantum on your T4 will not make a difference, but the presence or absence of a T4 could make all the difference. Anyway, long story short, I'm at DM in the old system (so hopefully one of the 60,000 awaiting oath). Fingers crossed.
Can you please share your interview experience? A link if it was already written here?
 

akbardxb

Champion Member
Nov 18, 2013
1,244
464
Mississauga
LANDED..........
28-03-2014
Can you please share your interview experience? A link if it was already written here?
Think Spanish Inquisition. LOL.

It didn't feel like an interview, it felt more like I was being tried in court. Passive aggressive sentences.... Don't want to quote exact words but I knew there and then that this was headed south. In hindsight, I feel my biggest mistake was matching his style in response. Remember, one is guilty unless proven innocent by documentary evidence. Also, don't argue. Ever. Bureaucracy, at least in India, where I come from, is not used to their statements being challenged. I guess they operate the same way here.

In your case, I guess you have to evaluate what is critical. Will a delay in citizenship impact any major decisions you have to make? Or are you better off commuting between Vancouver and Seattle for a few months while citizenship is approved.
 
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BogusApplicant

Star Member
Nov 22, 2015
83
13
I just received this email from CIC. Subject is “Request for Documents”
The email states this:


From the assessment of your application, it is noted that you were/are outside of Canada. We require an
update on your current status.
If you have not returned to Canada, please provide us with an expected return date in order to facilitate your
citizenship processing.
If you have returned to Canada, please submit any proof such as travel itinerant, e-booking confirmation, flight
confirmation, boarding pass or a Canadian date stamp from your passport to show that you have returned to
Canada.
For any scanned documents you submit, please do the following:
Convert any scanned documents to PDF format.
Rename the PDF document with your last name and file number:
"LAST NAME - APPLICATION #".PDF
Please respond by replying to this email at (local office email address) by 2022-03-07
Thank you,
Citizenship Official
Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada
Office: Surrey IRCC
____________________________________

Here is my issue:

I gave my citizenship test from outside Canada in December and have been stuck outside since I left Canada a year ago. Now the issue is, I don’t know when I can come back because the borders are closed where I am.

I am open to going back if they need me but can anyone explain 1) what I’m supposed to reply with 2) what they actually want and 3) if anyone else has received this.

Thank you in advance!
Any update on this? I'm thinking they are requesting for your availability so that the oath ceremony can be scheduled accordingly. It is possible that many are stuck outside the country and time and effort wasted in rescheduling requests and, IRCC wants to avoid that.
It is best to tell them that you can travel anytime to be physically present at the ceremony.

Btw, which office is your application in?
 

w3rlgn

Star Member
Sep 5, 2020
59
19
No response from them! I told them the truth but also mentioned I can come if needed. Now, I’ll leave the decision making to them. In regards to the office, it’s good old Surrey, BC
 

DNK

Member
Oct 20, 2020
14
2
No response from them! I told them the truth but also mentioned I can come if needed. Now, I’ll leave the decision making to them. In regards to the office, it’s good old Surrey, BC
Hi. They still didnt reply or send you an further information?
 

RoseDB

Star Member
Jul 15, 2017
198
45
No response from them! I told them the truth but also mentioned I can come if needed. Now, I’ll leave the decision making to them. In regards to the office, it’s good old Surrey, BC
Hi there, did you get any reply?
 

w3rlgn

Star Member
Sep 5, 2020
59
19
No response since my email sent to them Feb 7th! I have sent 3 webforms, replies come as they have no info and I can't even call as I am stuck outside Canada. Is anyone here able to help or does anyone know an immigration lawyer who can help me with this?
 

Dreamlad

Champion Member
Jan 11, 2016
1,267
469
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
AOR Received.
08-04-2017
Med's Done....
23-06-2017
No response since my email sent to them Feb 7th! I have sent 3 webforms, replies come as they have no info and I can't even call as I am stuck outside Canada. Is anyone here able to help or does anyone know an immigration lawyer who can help me with this?
What's your timeline? See my signature.
 

w3rlgn

Star Member
Sep 5, 2020
59
19
What's your timeline? See my signature.
Sep 2020: Application sent
Dec 16, 2020 : Acknowledgement received
Mar 15, 2021: Background verification
Dec 2, 2021: Citizenship test
Dec 13, 2021: Citizenship test status has been updated to Completed


Currently: Language test, physical presence and prohibs are In progress but background and citizenship test is completed and also, since I just logged in I see "updated 31 march 2022" but there's no update? I'm presuming this is the ghost update everyone is referring to?
 

Dreamlad

Champion Member
Jan 11, 2016
1,267
469
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
AOR Received.
08-04-2017
Med's Done....
23-06-2017
Sep 2020: Application sent
Dec 16, 2020 : Acknowledgement received
Mar 15, 2021: Background verification
Dec 2, 2021: Citizenship test
Dec 13, 2021: Citizenship test status has been updated to Completed


Currently: Language test, physical presence and prohibs are In progress but background and citizenship test is completed and also, since I just logged in I see "updated 31 march 2022" but there's no update? I'm presuming this is the ghost update everyone is referring to?
Yeah, it means someone is reviewing your file.
 

im2kool

Star Member
Dec 29, 2020
181
118
Sep 2020: Application sent
Dec 16, 2020 : Acknowledgement received
Mar 15, 2021: Background verification
Dec 2, 2021: Citizenship test
Dec 13, 2021: Citizenship test status has been updated to Completed


Currently: Language test, physical presence and prohibs are In progress but background and citizenship test is completed and also, since I just logged in I see "updated 31 march 2022" but there's no update? I'm presuming this is the ghost update everyone is referring to?
May be they are re doing your background checks
 

RoseDB

Star Member
Jul 15, 2017
198
45
Sep 2020: Application sent
Dec 16, 2020 : Acknowledgement received
Mar 15, 2021: Background verification
Dec 2, 2021: Citizenship test
Dec 13, 2021: Citizenship test status has been updated to Completed


Currently: Language test, physical presence and prohibs are In progress but background and citizenship test is completed and also, since I just logged in I see "updated 31 march 2022" but there's no update? I'm presuming this is the ghost update everyone is referring to?
I think you will get some updates soon. :)
 

RoseDB

Star Member
Jul 15, 2017
198
45
Sep 2020: Application sent
Dec 16, 2020 : Acknowledgement received
Mar 15, 2021: Background verification
Dec 2, 2021: Citizenship test
Dec 13, 2021: Citizenship test status has been updated to Completed


Currently: Language test, physical presence and prohibs are In progress but background and citizenship test is completed and also, since I just logged in I see "updated 31 march 2022" but there's no update? I'm presuming this is the ghost update everyone is referring to?
Hi there any updates from IRCC o your reply?