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Request for documents while outside Canada - help please!

BogusApplicant

Star Member
Nov 22, 2015
83
13
That's what I too would do in such a case.

There does not seem to be a legal basis for them to stop processing your application. They themselves say that you are free to go out after filing and your application will still be processed. If it comes to the worst, the OP should get a lawyer to send then a stern note.
Honestly, the reason that I even considered taking up another job (intra company transfer) in the US is because of the clear information on the IRCC webpage on Citizenship processing while abroad. I had 3 years time to complete the process without losing my PR status (did not even spend one day outside Canada in the last 2 years), and now this is giving me too much stress.

https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=911&top=5
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,307
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. . . because of the clear information on the IRCC webpage on Citizenship processing while abroad . . .
https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=911&top=5
As for how "clear" the IRCC FAQ information is, many appear to be wearing wishful thinking glasses when they read that. It clearly references logistical risks, emphasizes PR obligations, and in no way suggests, let alone states, that the fact a person is abroad after applying will have no influence in the decision-making.

Honestly, the reason that I even considered taking up another job (intra company transfer) in the US is because of the clear information on the IRCC webpage on Citizenship processing while abroad. I had 3 years time to complete the process without losing my PR status (did not even spend one day outside Canada in the last 2 years), and now this is giving me too much stress.
Many relocate outside Canada after applying for citizenship and become Canadian citizens in due course; no problems.

But not all. There are RISKS. There is NO for-sure answer. How it goes varies. Meaning it does not go the same for every person. Which should be obvious, since the circumstances vary a lot from person to person.

Risk factors do not dictate how things will go. They indicate variable, possible outcomes. Including problematic outcomes. The amount of risk almost always varies not just based on this or that particular fact or circumstance (like living abroad), but on the relational effect of multiple risk factors. An applicant abroad who applied with a big buffer in physical presence (say 1200 plus days) does not have nearly the same degree of risk as one who applied with just 1098 days. No rocket science necessary to map the general trajectory of most risk factors, even if it is very difficult to know where things will ultimately land.

[Multiple risk factor analogy: driving a car with bald tires increases the risk of a crash. Bald tires and wet road surface means a bigger risk. Driving faster with bald tires on a wet road surface, even bigger risk. Like many, been there, done that, got home without crashing. Many others, however, crash. Outcomes vary. For some just a fender-bender. Some are hurt, some seriously. And for some the outcome is fatal. Proceed at your RISK.]​

Logistical risks for an applicant who has relocated in the U.S., particularly one an easy drive from Toronto or Vancouver, for example, are significantly lower than for the applicant who after applying is living in Central Asia a long distance from the nearest international airport.

Procedural risks similarly vary. Just like they do for applicants remaining in Canada, but with the added factor of being abroad.

There are conflicting views in the forum about the influence and impact of being abroad (not traveling abroad, but relocating to live or work abroad) after applying. Unfortunately many seem unable to separate how they believe things should be from an objective, practical evaluation of how things really work.

There are numerous topics in this forum about relocating abroad after applying. Many of the discussions frame the question in terms of *travel* abroad after applying. There's a clue there. Relocating and living abroad is NOT about TRAVEL abroad. Those who persist in framing the issues in reference to "travel" abroad obviously recognize the differences in the impression made and how that can potentially influence decision-makers, even as they persist in denying there is much if any elevated risk for those relocating abroad. In fact, part of the reason the anecdotal reporting does not better illuminate how IRCC approaches applicants living abroad after applying, how living abroad affects how it goes, is that many of those who move abroad MASK that fact, including a failure to truthfully update the information in their application as to the address where they live. Maybe that's just unfounded paranoia. More likely not.

But again, overall, how it goes VARIES. Depending on the individual. Depending on the circumstances. Depending on other risk factors.

I am still watching for news about how things go for those who took the online test while abroad, to see whether they are proceeding to the oath comparable to those who took the test while in Canada.
 
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BogusApplicant

Star Member
Nov 22, 2015
83
13
As for how "clear" the IRCC FAQ information is, many appear to be wearing wishful thinking glasses when they read that. It clearly references logistical risks, emphasizes PR obligations, and in no way suggests, let alone states, that the fact a person is abroad after applying will have no influence in the decision-making.



Many relocate outside Canada after applying for citizenship and become Canadian citizens in due course; no problems.

But not all. There are RISKS. There is NO for-sure answer. How it goes varies. Meaning it does not go the same for every person. Which should be obvious, since the circumstances vary a lot from person to person.

Risk factors do not dictate how things will go. They indicate variable, possible outcomes. Including problematic outcomes. The amount of risk almost always varies not just based on this or that particular fact or circumstance (like living abroad), but on the relational effect of multiple risk factors. An applicant abroad who applied with a big buffer in physical presence (say 1200 plus days) does not have nearly the same degree of risk as one who applied with just 1098 days. No rocket science necessary to map the general trajectory of most risk factors, even if it is very difficult to know where things will ultimately land.

[Multiple risk factor analogy: driving a car with bald tires increases the risk of a crash. Bald tires and wet road surface means a bigger risk. Driving faster with bald tires on a wet road surface, even bigger risk. Like many, been there, done that, got home without crashing. Many others, however, crash. Outcomes vary. For some just a fender-bender. Some are hurt, some seriously. And for some the outcome is fatal. Proceed at your RISK.]​

Logistical risks for an applicant who has relocated in the U.S., particularly one an easy drive from Toronto or Vancouver, for example, are significantly lower than for the applicant who after applying is living in Central Asia a long distance from the nearest international airport.

Procedural risks similarly vary. Just like they do for applicants remaining in Canada, but with the added factor of being abroad.

There are conflicting views in the forum about the influence and impact of being abroad (not traveling abroad, but relocating to live or work abroad) after applying. Unfortunately many seem unable to separate how they believe things should be from an objective, practical evaluation of how things really work.

There are numerous topics in this forum about relocating abroad after applying. Many of the discussions frame the question in terms of *travel* abroad after applying. There's a clue there. Relocating and living abroad is NOT about TRAVEL abroad. Those who persist in framing the issues in reference to "travel" abroad obviously recognize the differences in the impression made and how that can potentially influence decision-makers, even as they persist in denying there is much if any elevated risk for those relocating abroad. In fact, part of the reason the anecdotal reporting does not better illuminate how IRCC approaches applicants living abroad after applying, how living abroad affects how it goes, is that many of those who move abroad MASK that fact, including a failure to truthfully update the information in their application as to the address where they live. Maybe that's just unfounded paranoia. More likely not.

But again, overall, how it goes VARIES. Depending on the individual. Depending on the circumstances. Depending on other risk factors.

I am still watching for news about how things go for those who took the online test while abroad, to see whether they are proceeding to the oath comparable to those who took the test while in Canada.
Appreciate your detailed response.
I do think that its an overly pessimistic view.
The FAQ is indeed clear about the risks, but those are purely logistical (of course, the procedural risks exist for everyone)- , i.e, ability to be present in Canada for the interviews and to be able to respond within given time.
It does not define any eligibility criteria based on being in Canada - other than having PR-RO until the day of Oath.
I may also add, FAQ does not say "Travel" but says, "Leave Canada" and there is no way someone's PR-RO will be compromised by simple travels outside of Canada.
Having said that, I agree that we need to keep watching the forum on individual experiences and also perhaps mount a preemptive legal challenge, if IRCC seem to be holding such applications.
 

BogusApplicant

Star Member
Nov 22, 2015
83
13
I just received this email from CIC. Subject is “Request for Documents”
The email states this:


From the assessment of your application, it is noted that you were/are outside of Canada. We require an
update on your current status.
If you have not returned to Canada, please provide us with an expected return date in order to facilitate your
citizenship processing.
If you have returned to Canada, please submit any proof such as travel itinerant, e-booking confirmation, flight
confirmation, boarding pass or a Canadian date stamp from your passport to show that you have returned to
Canada.
For any scanned documents you submit, please do the following:
Convert any scanned documents to PDF format.
Rename the PDF document with your last name and file number:
"LAST NAME - APPLICATION #".PDF
Please respond by replying to this email at (local office email address) by 2022-03-07
Thank you,
Citizenship Official
Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada
Office: Surrey IRCC
____________________________________

Here is my issue:

I gave my citizenship test from outside Canada in December and have been stuck outside since I left Canada a year ago. Now the issue is, I don’t know when I can come back because the borders are closed where I am.

I am open to going back if they need me but can anyone explain 1) what I’m supposed to reply with 2) what they actually want and 3) if anyone else has received this.

Thank you in advance!
Hi,
Any further clarification from IRCC?
Cannot we simply state that "I will be able to be present in Canada for the ceremony on any day given at least x days notice"?
 
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w3rlgn

Star Member
Sep 5, 2020
59
19
The problem I’m facing is this: I’m currently in Australia with my partner and family and cannot risk leaving as the state I’m in has strict no flying policies. I also want my citizenship done because I do intend to go back with my family in a few years.
im afraid if I just give a date and go, not only will I not be able to work and make some income I’ll just be sitting there for months until they schedule me for my oath and then risking not being able to enter Australia again.
I also know of people who have taken their oath abroad. I just don’t know how they got it.
I was thinking about telling the truth and stating my reasons for not being able to come but then Im worried they will cancel my application or something.
 

MrChazz

Hero Member
May 4, 2021
247
225
The problem I’m facing is this: I’m currently in Australia with my partner and family and cannot risk leaving as the state I’m in has strict no flying policies. I also want my citizenship done because I do intend to go back with my family in a few years.
im afraid if I just give a date and go, not only will I not be able to work and make some income I’ll just be sitting there for months until they schedule me for my oath and then risking not being able to enter Australia again.
I also know of people who have taken their oath abroad. I just don’t know how they got it.
I was thinking about telling the truth and stating my reasons for not being able to come but then Im worried they will cancel my application or something.
The suggestion for a date was just that. They have simply asked you for a date of when you might return, not that you arrive on that date and stay until the oath date.
I am curious: how many people do you know who have taken the oath abroad?
Given your concerns, I'd get a lawyer to draft a response or at least give some advice.
 

CaBeaver

Champion Member
Dec 15, 2018
2,941
1,369
The problem I’m facing is this: I’m currently in Australia with my partner and family and cannot risk leaving as the state I’m in has strict no flying policies. I also want my citizenship done because I do intend to go back with my family in a few years.
im afraid if I just give a date and go, not only will I not be able to work and make some income I’ll just be sitting there for months until they schedule me for my oath and then risking not being able to enter Australia again.
I also know of people who have taken their oath abroad. I just don’t know how they got it.
I was thinking about telling the truth and stating my reasons for not being able to come but then Im worried they will cancel my application or something.
Where did you read people did oath from outside Canada? As far as I know it's not allowed.
 

akbardxb

Champion Member
Nov 18, 2013
1,244
464
Mississauga
LANDED..........
28-03-2014
The problem I’m facing is this: I’m currently in Australia with my partner and family and cannot risk leaving as the state I’m in has strict no flying policies. I also want my citizenship done because I do intend to go back with my family in a few years.
im afraid if I just give a date and go, not only will I not be able to work and make some income I’ll just be sitting there for months until they schedule me for my oath and then risking not being able to enter Australia again.
I also know of people who have taken their oath abroad. I just don’t know how they got it.
I was thinking about telling the truth and stating my reasons for not being able to come but then Im worried they will cancel my application or something.
If you personally know someone who got their Oath outside Canada maybe ask them. If some is claiming on this forum that they took oath while outside Canada, take it with a pinch of salt.
 

MrChazz

Hero Member
May 4, 2021
247
225
If you personally know someone who got their Oath outside Canada maybe ask them. If some is claiming on this forum that they took oath while outside Canada, take it with a pinch of salt.
So far I have seen only one such claim here. And it wasn't a person claiming to have done it. It was a person who claimed he had been told that the wife of a friend had done it.
 
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akbardxb

Champion Member
Nov 18, 2013
1,244
464
Mississauga
LANDED..........
28-03-2014
So far I have seen only one such claim here. And it wasn't a person claiming to have done it. It was a person who claimed he had been told that the wife of a friend had done it.
Then I think this claim can be safely laid to rest as BS.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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I do think that its an overly pessimistic view.
The FAQ is indeed clear about the risks, but those are purely logistical (of course, the procedural risks exist for everyone)- , i.e, ability to be present in Canada for the interviews and to be able to respond within given time.
It does not define any eligibility criteria based on being in Canada - other than having PR-RO until the day of Oath.
I may also add, FAQ does not say "Travel" but says, "Leave Canada" and there is no way someone's PR-RO will be compromised by simple travels outside of Canada.
Having said that, I agree that we need to keep watching the forum on individual experiences and also perhaps mount a preemptive legal challenge, if IRCC seem to be holding such applications.
I am not clear what you are referring to as an "overly pessimistic view," and I am especially not clear how optimism or pessimism fits into describing what circumstances or influences might trigger problems, including what might trigger non-routine inquiries delaying processing, or trigger overtly RQ-related non-routine processing resulting in inconvenience and potentially much longer processing timelines, potentially subjecting an applicant to elevated scrutiny and a more strict assessment of eligibility.

I am particularly unclear because it seems obvious you did not mean to say it is an "overly pessimistic view" that:
"Many relocate outside Canada after applying for citizenship and become Canadian citizens in due course; no problems."​

Which was the primary observation I made, and you quote, and you appear to be responding to. Indeed, my sense is the opposite, that you would perceive how smoothly it goes for many of those located abroad after applying to be a positive view. (To be clear, my approach and focus is trying to understand, as best we can, how things actually work, and is not about how things should work.)

But, there are those who feel differently. No shortage of them actually. There is no doubt, many, many Canadians, and a significant number of forum participants, who do consider that to be a pessimistic view, perhaps even an "overly pessimistic view." There is no shortage of Canadians who believe citizenship should be denied if the applicant is living abroad. The animosity some have toward those seen or perceived to be "applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport" or otherwise "seeking-a-passport-of-convenience," as those with such views typically label those in these scenarios, did not disappear because the Liberals won a majority government in 2015 and were able to repeal the more draconian measures adopted by Harper's government in 2014 (not the least of which was the short-lived provision implemented in 2015 which was essentially intended to give CIC grounds to deny an application on the sole basis that the applicant was residing outside Canada).

To what extent, these days, that sentiment influences decision-making among the total stranger bureaucrats processing citizenship applicants is very difficult to gauge. These decision-makers cannot deny an application because the applicant has relocated abroad (noting that has been true, how it works, for all but a few months in the second half of 2015), recognizing that it is correct that there is no eligibility qualification requiring an otherwise qualified applicant be residing in Canada while the application is in process.

In particular, living abroad after applying does not directly affect the applicant's eligibility as long as the applicant continues to comply with the PR Residency Obligation. So, there is no basis for IRCC to deny or reject a citizenship application based on a PR's move abroad. Which is how it has been for many decades except for those few months in 2015 when the Harper government was enforcing the former section 5(1)(c.1) in the Citizenship Act (not officially repealed until June 18, 2017, but was effectively no longer applied or enforced as soon as the Liberals formed the government in late 2015).

But, for those who are navigating the process, assessing the pros and cons in their own, personal situations, making personal decisions about whether or when to take a job outside Canada, or whether or when to otherwise relocate outside Canada, or whether to remain living outside Canada while their application is pending, most will want to make an informed decision, most will want to consider what is known about how the process works and what can influence how it goes, what is likely to influence how things go, and if possible the nature and extent of such influences. And then make decisions according to their personal situation and priorities.

Unfortunately, since 2012 the criteria employed by CIC/IRCC in deciding what triggers reasons-to-question-residency has been confidential, secret (there have been leaks, but none I have seen in the last several years). In contrast, nonetheless, historically there has been a strong correlation between RQ and applicants perceived, by the total stranger bureaucrats making decisions in processing the citizenship application, to have relocated outside Canada.

The question is whether or not living abroad continues to be a significant factor potentially triggering RQ-related requests and processing. Unlike how it was for many years, such as when circumstances indicated the applicant had recently returned to Canada from abroad (under criteria listed in the operational manual CP 5 governing assessment of residency, which the Harper government replaced with secret triage criteria), it does not appear that living abroad will, by itself, trigger RQ-related non-routine processing. This, in conjunction with sufficient anecdotal reporting, as noted, indicating that many proceed smoothly through the process even though they have relocated abroad after applying, suggests that living abroad after applying has LESS RISK today than it did a few years ago.

But there is a lot of uncertainty about the extent of this. Many of those who report NO problem clearly masked their move abroad. There are some here who insist being abroad is not and cannot be a factor in deciding who is subject to RQ-related non-routine processing. The impact of the pandemic has totally skewered anecdotal reporting about processing timelines. In terms of simple logic, if a decision-maker perceives an applicant was pursuing Canadian citizenship for purposes contrary to Canada's immigration law and policy (in which bringing immigrants to settle permanently in Canada is a primary purpose), obviously that can indicate a potential motive to otherwise act inconsistent with the law and thus be a reason to initiate further scrutiny, more extensive inquiries, or outright investigation or make RQ-related requests.

Lots of clues, no firm leads. We just do not know for sure to what extent processing agents and Citizenship Officers might be, currently, more skeptical of applicants who are abroad. But we do know that historically this has been a significant factor.

I did not mean to paint a dark forecast for those who relocate abroad. As I noted, many do so and encounter NO problems. But it varies. Other factors can make a big difference.

Taking Oath Abroad:

Not all grants of citizenship are pursuant to Section 5(1) in the Citizenship Act. For SOME grants of citizenship the law allows the oath of citizenship to be administered by a foreign service officer if the person is outside Canada. A person who has applied for and is granted a resumption of citizenship, for example, can take the oath abroad. Likewise a person specially granted citizenship to alleviate statelessness. Among other EXCEPTIONS, including minors between 14 and the age of majority granted citizenship pursuant to Section 5(2).

Otherwise the current law requires adults granted citizenship pursuant to Section 5(1) to take "the oath of citizenship by swearing or solemnly affirming it before a citizenship judge" and this must be done IN Canada. See Citizenship Regulations 17 through 24. Some forum participants claim there will be changes to this forthcoming but those posting this are notoriously unreliable, generally among the deliberately disruptive and offensive usual suspects, and have provided no reliable sources (for just about anything).
 
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BogusApplicant

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Nov 22, 2015
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I am not clear what you are referring to as an "overly pessimistic view," and I am especially not clear how optimism or pessimism fits into describing what circumstances or influences might trigger problems, including what might trigger non-routine inquiries delaying processing, or trigger overtly RQ-related non-routine processing resulting in inconvenience and potentially much longer processing timelines, potentially subjecting an applicant to elevated scrutiny and a more strict assessment of eligibility.

I am particularly unclear because it seems obvious you did not mean to say it is an "overly pessimistic view" that:
"Many relocate outside Canada after applying for citizenship and become Canadian citizens in due course; no problems."​

Which was the primary observation I made, and you quote, and you appear to be responding to. Indeed, my sense is the opposite, that you would perceive how smoothly it goes for many of those located abroad after applying to be a positive view. (To be clear, my approach and focus is trying to understand, as best we can, how things actually work, and is not about how things should work.)

But, there are those who feel differently. No shortage of them actually. There is no doubt, many, many Canadians, and a significant number of forum participants, who do consider that to be a pessimistic view, perhaps even an "overly pessimistic view." There is no shortage of Canadians who believe citizenship should be denied if the applicant is living abroad. The animosity some have toward those seen or perceived to be "applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport" or otherwise "seeking-a-passport-of-convenience," as those with such views typically label those in these scenarios, did not disappear because the Liberals won a majority government in 2015 and were able to repeal the more draconian measures adopted by Harper's government in 2014 (not the least of which was the short-lived provision implemented in 2015 which was essentially intended to give CIC grounds to deny an application on the sole basis that the applicant was residing outside Canada).

To what extent, these days, that sentiment influences decision-making among the total stranger bureaucrats processing citizenship applicants is very difficult to gauge. These decision-makers cannot deny an application because the applicant has relocated abroad (noting that has been true, how it works, for all but a few months in the second half of 2015), recognizing that it is correct that there is no eligibility qualification requiring an otherwise qualified applicant be residing in Canada while the application is in process.

In particular, living abroad after applying does not directly affect the applicant's eligibility as long as the applicant continues to comply with the PR Residency Obligation. So, there is no basis for IRCC to deny or reject a citizenship application based on a PR's move abroad. Which is how it has been for many decades except for those few months in 2015 when the Harper government was enforcing the former section 5(1)(c.1) in the Citizenship Act (not officially repealed until June 18, 2017, but was effectively no longer applied or enforced as soon as the Liberals formed the government in late 2015).

But, for those who are navigating the process, assessing the pros and cons in their own, personal situations, making personal decisions about whether or when to take a job outside Canada, or whether or when to otherwise relocate outside Canada, or whether to remain living outside Canada while their application is pending, most will want to make an informed decision, most will want to consider what is known about how the process works and what can influence how it goes, what is likely to influence how things go, and if possible the nature and extent of such influences. And then make decisions according to their personal situation and priorities.

Unfortunately, since 2012 the criteria employed by CIC/IRCC in deciding what triggers reasons-to-question-residency has been confidential, secret (there have been leaks, but none I have seen in the last several years). In contrast, nonetheless, historically there has been a strong correlation between RQ and applicants perceived, by the total stranger bureaucrats making decisions in processing the citizenship application, to have relocated outside Canada.

The question is whether or not living abroad continues to be a significant factor potentially triggering RQ-related requests and processing. Unlike how it was for many years, such as when circumstances indicated the applicant had recently returned to Canada from abroad (under criteria listed in the operational manual CP 5 governing assessment of residency, which the Harper government replaced with secret triage criteria), it does not appear that living abroad will, by itself, trigger RQ-related non-routine processing. This, in conjunction with sufficient anecdotal reporting, as noted, indicating that many proceed smoothly through the process even though they have relocated abroad after applying, suggests that living abroad after applying has LESS RISK today than it did a few years ago.

But there is a lot of uncertainty about the extent of this. Many of those who report NO problem clearly masked their move abroad. There are some here who insist being abroad is not and cannot be a factor in deciding who is subject to RQ-related non-routine processing. The impact of the pandemic has totally skewered anecdotal reporting about processing timelines. In terms of simple logic, if a decision-maker perceives an applicant was pursuing Canadian citizenship for purposes contrary to Canada's immigration law and policy (in which bringing immigrants to settle permanently in Canada is a primary purpose), obviously that can indicate a potential motive to otherwise act inconsistent with the law and thus be a reason to initiate further scrutiny, more extensive inquiries, or outright investigation or make RQ-related requests.

Lots of clues, no firm leads. We just do not know for sure to what extent processing agents and Citizenship Officers might be, currently, more skeptical of applicants who are abroad. But we do know that historically this has been a significant factor.

I did not mean to paint a dark forecast for those who relocate abroad. As I noted, many do so and encounter NO problems. But it varies. Other factors can make a big difference.

Taking Oath Abroad:

Not all grants of citizenship are pursuant to Section 5(1) in the Citizenship Act. For SOME grants of citizenship the law allows the oath of citizenship to be administered by a foreign service officer if the person is outside Canada. A person who has applied for and is granted a resumption of citizenship, for example, can take the oath abroad. Likewise a person specially granted citizenship to alleviate statelessness. Among other EXCEPTIONS, including minors between 14 and the age of majority granted citizenship pursuant to Section 5(2).

Otherwise the current law requires adults granted citizenship pursuant to Section 5(1) to take "the oath of citizenship by swearing or solemnly affirming it before a citizenship judge" and this must be done IN Canada. See Citizenship Regulations 17 through 24. Some forum participants claim there will be changes to this forthcoming but those posting this are notoriously unreliable, generally among the deliberately disruptive and offensive usual suspects, and have provided no reliable sources (for just about anything).
I'm completely hearing you and Infact aligned with it. Now coming to my situation, here are some reasons why, according to my judgement, the risks are low.
1. I've lived in Canada since April 2016 and a PR since Jan 2018. When I submitted my application last month I had 1500+ days presence
2. I will move likely in late May or early June. A significant portion of time is spent inside Canada after application
3. Will be located in Seattle, and will be able to drive to Canada at will. I intend to take the test from within Canada when the time comes.

Some more influencing factors, don't know if they count but still
1. Literarally raised my family here. My elder was not yet 2 when we arrived and my youngest was born here
2. Comfortably among the top 2% income earners in the country and additionally pay significant taxes from worldwide income (if I may add, Canada did not contribute to those assets)

The nature of my job is that, it is common to move to serve customers who have current needs (I've worked for the same company for almost 2 decades).
In other words, I may say that if IRCC would have a definition for a model immigrant, I would fit into that.

Given this information, what is your judgement on the risk? Do these soft factors play a role?
 

MrChazz

Hero Member
May 4, 2021
247
225
I'm completely hearing you and Infact aligned with it. Now coming to my situation, here are some reasons why, according to my judgement, the risks are low.
1. I've lived in Canada since April 2016 and a PR since Jan 2018. When I submitted my application last month I had 1500+ days presence
2. I will move likely in late May or early June. A significant portion of time is spent inside Canada after application
3. Will be located in Seattle, and will be able to drive to Canada at will. I intend to take the test from within Canada when the time comes.

Some more influencing factors, don't know if they count but still
1. Literarally raised my family here. My elder was not yet 2 when we arrived and my youngest was born here
2. Comfortably among the top 2% income earners in the country and additionally pay significant taxes from worldwide income (if I may add, Canada did not contribute to those assets)

The nature of my job is that, it is common to move to serve customers who have current needs (I've worked for the same company for almost 2 decades).
In other words, I may say that if IRCC would have a definition for a model immigrant, I would fit into that.

Given this information, what is your judgement on the risk? Do these soft factors play a role?
As far as I can tell only (1)---the first (1)---really matters to the folks at IRCC, as long as you maintain your residency obligations until granted citizenship. But we have many long-winded "experts" here, and perhaps you want to hear from them?
 

younan02

Full Member
Feb 21, 2017
41
4
As far as I can tell only (1)---the first (1)---really matters to the folks at IRCC, as long as you maintain your residency obligations until granted citizenship. But we have many long-winded "experts" here, and perhaps you want to hear from them?
Echo this. I am in the same boat. Anyone who's living in US after submitting your citizenship application? Please dump us some information. Thank you!
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,307
3,068
I'm completely hearing you and Infact aligned with it. Now coming to my situation, here are some reasons why, according to my judgement, the risks are low.
1. I've lived in Canada since April 2016 and a PR since Jan 2018. When I submitted my application last month I had 1500+ days presence
2. I will move likely in late May or early June. A significant portion of time is spent inside Canada after application
3. Will be located in Seattle, and will be able to drive to Canada at will. I intend to take the test from within Canada when the time comes.

Some more influencing factors, don't know if they count but still
1. Literarally raised my family here. My elder was not yet 2 when we arrived and my youngest was born here
2. Comfortably among the top 2% income earners in the country and additionally pay significant taxes from worldwide income (if I may add, Canada did not contribute to those assets)

The nature of my job is that, it is common to move to serve customers who have current needs (I've worked for the same company for almost 2 decades).
In other words, I may say that if IRCC would have a definition for a model immigrant, I would fit into that.

Given this information, what is your judgement on the risk? Do these soft factors play a role?
The risk of non-routine processing is personal, relative to the particular facts and circumstances in the individual's own case. As you previously noted, some of the risk factors apply as much to applicants remaining in Canada.

It appears you have approached this process with about as much care and consideration as is practically feasible.

That said, anyone can get RQ or be referred for a CBSA/NSSD background investigation regarding physical presence. So there is no guaranteed way to avoid the risk of RQ altogether, or other presence related non-routine processing.

Risk factors, like risk in life in general, are cumulative. Thus, for example, applicants who recognize they have this or that risk factor (mine was being self-employed providing services entirely exported abroad -- my business is in Canada, this is where I work, but all of what I do is sold to clients/customers outside Canada) should consider if they can offset that risk in other ways, such as waiting longer to apply with a more sustained paper and digital trail of a life in Canada and a bigger margin of presence (which is what I did).

Nonetheless, since the criteria for triggering a CBSA investigation is secret, and the RQ criteria has now been secret for nearly a decade (OB 407 was implemented in April 2012), the best prospective applicants can do is:
-- use common sense (examples: the more clearly settled in Canada at the time of the application, the lower the risk; the more ongoing residential or employment ties the applicant has outside Canada, the bigger the risk)​
-- apply with a good margin of presence over the minimum (and if other risk factors are implicated, wait to apply with an even bigger margin; again referencing my own experience)​
-- be accurate and complete in the application, and timely and appropriately respond to all requests and appear for events as scheduled​
-- and some applicants may want to wait longer to apply if a significant part of their time in Canada was transient in nature; obviously, the more solid the address and work history while in Canada, the stronger the case, the less likely a total stranger bureaucrat will have questions or concerns about the applicant's physical presence​

I realize that it may seem counter-intuitive, particularly for individuals coming from some socio-political-cultural backgrounds, but there is very little indication that financial success is much of a factor. Of course affluence can affect the overall picture in other ways that have positive influence, such as where it is reflected in address and employment stability (the applicant more clearly well-settled and established in Canada has less risk, obviously, that there will be questions about where they have been during the eligibility period). But generally, so far as I have seen, making more money does not make more points. (One of the many things I like about Canada.)

For the applicant who relocates abroad, affluence can be a big factor in the logistical risks, like being able to return to Canada on short notice.

But for PRs like @younan02, for example, the devil is in the details. The particular facts and circumstances in THEIR own particular situation, AND their own HISTORY, will influence how much risk there is they will encounter non-routine processing, potential delays, and for some potentially a strict approach to assessing their qualifications which, again depending on the specific details in their case, could even jeopardize the outcome.

FINALLY . . . impressions matter. I have emphasized again and again that apart from the essentials, that is apart from actually meeting the eligibility requirements, properly completing the application, and following through with the process, the next most important factor is the applicant's credibility. A factor that is very, very difficult to define. A factor that is not amenable to formulaic criteria (except the obvious: the more mistakes or discrepancies there are in an applicant's information, the more damage that does to the applicant's credibility). But a factor that can have a huge impact on how things go. Many in this forum are adverse to acknowledging the negative impact on credibility it can have if they appear to be exploiting the Canadian immigration system for the purpose of obtaining a Canadian passport with little intent to actually settle in Canada permanently. But only a modicum of common-sense is needed to see how that perception, that appearance, that impression, can lead a total stranger bureaucrat to have questions and go digging deeper, and to do so with a not particularly favourable frame of mind.
 
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