Renewing the card: What constitutes proof of stay ?

[MarioYYZ]

Hello. I tried hard looking around the forum for a case that is similar to mine but was unable to spot one, so I'm sorry if this turns out to be a repeat question.

Landed as PR in Aug.2010, no previous stays.
The card expires October 2014.

My concern is that I have never been employed. My job field is extremely competitive and, after searching for many months to no avail, I just stopped looking.
I support myself using my lifetime savings that I made abroad, and have never received compensation here.

I have about 25-30 stamps on my passport showing many trips abroad, amounting to 551 days in my 5-year window.
I know that I have met my RO, but I understand that I may also be liable to "adequately" proving that I have done so.

Since I landed as PR, I leased a home right away, obtained a Driver's License, OHIP within 3 months, bought a car, registered with 1 family doctor and 1 dentist (2 visits each, a year), took a 3-month university course each year, and started volunteering with a charity program this year. I have kept each and every single payment receipt for groceries, gas, hydro, cable & internet, cell phone, car service, and even tax filings with zero income. I also requested a travel record and the CBSA's figures seem to match my absences perfectly. My passport pages, however, make for the perfect work of art with congested multi-colored stamp shapes... and, at first glance, isn't exactly a neat impression of someone who fears flying.

Thanks to the knowledgeable folks on here, I understand that I have the option of waiting 2 years from my card's expiration date to apply for renewal, to serve as proof that I have met my RO. I am now considering starting up a small business and I feel that an expired PR can impede the application formalities.

Is "staying put" looking like the best way to go in my situation, or should I just apply to renew and hope that my 4-year document album can serve a potential RQ ?

Thank you all for your input...

 

[MarioYYZ]

Leon, zardoz, scylla… any chance you can weigh in on my situation please ?

 

[CanV]

Since you met your residency requirements you have nothing to fear. Sure your case may not be as straightforward as other cases but still if you qualify then you should apply to renew the card if you need it. You will probably get called for an interview at your local office to verify you actually met the requirements but thats fine too, just take all the proofs with you.

 

[MarioYYZ]

Thank you CanV. I assumed that since nobody replied, my situation was more of a grey area and that it really depends on the evaluating officer's judgement.

I don't really need the card for travel, but all the news hype about Bill C24 that is going into effect this January makes me wonder what could be in store next for PRs. Also, I understand that an invalid card does not take away your status, but it is also becoming a requirement for many employers, educational institutions, banks, and gov services at Service Ontario desks. It's not supposed to be required, we don't like it, but there's not much we can do about it.

Come to think of it, the only 3 documents that can really serve as absolute proof of physical presence is employment, education and hospital treatment. Three years ago, someone I know very well did not manage to convince her IO that she qualifies despite having all 3 of the documents above to prove it. She was applying for citizenship, but it's the same principle. She was a travel freak with stamps all over her passport, and her IO admittedly told her he didn't like it and that he doesn't think she has "sufficient ties" to Canada. Sorry for deviating from the main topic here, but I'm just hoping to see if anyone thinks this could be a big gamble.

 

[CanV]

Thank you CanV. I assumed that since nobody replied, my situation was more of a grey area and that it really depends on the evaluating officer's judgement.

I don't really need the card for travel, but all the news hype about Bill C24 that is going into effect this January makes me wonder what could be in store next for PRs. Also, I understand that an invalid card does not take away your status, but it is also becoming a requirement for many employers, educational institutions, banks, and gov services at Service Ontario desks. It's not supposed to be required, we don't like it, but there's not much we can do about it.

Come to think of it, the only 3 documents that can really serve as absolute proof of physical presence is employment, education and hospital treatment. Three years ago, someone I know very well did not manage to convince her IO that she qualifies despite having all 3 of the documents above to prove it. She was applying for citizenship, but it's the same principle. She was a travel freak with stamps all over her passport, and her IO admittedly told her he didn't like it and that he doesn't think she has "sufficient ties" to Canada. Sorry for deviating from the main topic here, but I'm just hoping to see if anyone thinks this could be a big gamble.

They can like and dislike whatever they want, the law is the law. If you qualify, you will get it. Yes they can make you go thru interviews and have you bring lots of documents to prove but at the end you will certainly get it if you qualify. If you get denied, which is almost impossible, then you can appeal and win. Not having sufficient ties to Canada cannot be used to deny someone their PR renewal.

Whats going into effect this January? Nothing as far as I know.

 

[zardoz]

Leon, zardoz, scylla... any chance you can weigh in on my situation please ?

Sorry, I missed this earlier. I agree that you have nothing to worry about. You have much more evidence of compliance with the residency obligation requirements than most applicants for renewal. If you have CBSA records that match your declared absences, you are in a very good position.

 

[Msafiri]

Leon, zardoz, scylla... any chance you can weigh in on my situation please ?

Not one of these fine 3 but my 2 cents......all I see from your list of documentation is passive proof of presence in Canada. You can have all of these even if not residing in Canada. Good you filed taxes...with a zero income coupled with extensive travel this has RQ written all over it. The PR RQ has some similarities to the Citizenship RQ but splits the documentary evidence over 2 sets of forms one exclusively targeting your travel history. In your shoes I'd get records of movements from the other countries you traveled to on the premise it was mostly travel to one or two countries. Your CBSA records just show your entries into Canada not when you left unless you've transited the US on departure from 2013 onwards.

 

[on-hold]

I agree with Msafri, your problem is that your evidence looks passive -- none of the things that you're submitting actually require you to have a day-to-day presence in Canada, beyond the 3-month course (which won't add up to enough time). They also raise a lot of tricky questions -- I don't know what CIC's level of scrutiny around PR renewals is, but I wouldn't be surprised if they trigger some sort of closer examination:

- why didn't you take longer courses, if you weren't working and interested in studying?
- how did you travel so much, with no income?
- do you have unreported worldwide income?
- why aren't you applying for citizenship, since you easily qualify?
- why are you starting a small business now, as opposed to any time in the past 5 years when you weren't working or studying?
- keeping every single receipt for 5 years is honestly overkill -- I don't believe most people who apply for citizenship have this sort of documentation, it's almost of the nature of 'protests too much'. It's the kind of evidence that can be generated in large amounts by someone trying to game the system, but isn't bothered with by people who are living in Canada.

However, these are just my opinions! I also agree with Zardoz, that if what you say is correct, then you should apply with no reservations, for either citizenship or PR, whichever makes sense for you. The questions that these issues raise are only questions, and not determinative, getting PR or citizenship does not require your life or choices to be judged, just substantiated.

 

[MarioYYZ]

On-Hold, thanks for the reply. I have good, substantiated answers to all those questions. I still don't qualify to apply for citizenship: 1095 days have only been accumulated in the last 5 years, not 4. My strong hesitation about applying is not to avoid an RQ at all. My hesitation really stems from the fact that everyone on here keeps saying "if what you say is correct…if you're honest…if you're truthful, then apply". Being honest has no place in immigration court, proof does.

Many times, securing evidence beyond foreign exit/entry stamps (along with a CBSA travel report) is quite difficult and I wanted to get a fairly good idea if this much proof is usually sufficient in a case like mine. I've had a rough 4 years since I landed and I had to frequently go back and attend to my elderly parents. I knew I was in for a residency merry-go-round from the beginning and so I couldn't tie myself up with a company and I tried my very best to keep a trail whenever possible. I did declare world income and I'm all set with the taxes. All stamps in my passport belong to 2 countries only (where my parents lived/were being treated) and my excel sheet pinpoints and references every one of them, then matches them to an entry on the CBSA records.
That is the only proof I have. That is what I'm able to mention on an RQ. Now, do excuse my repetition and I know nobody's a lawyer here, but would you think that what I am able to submit constitutes sufficient proof in the unfortunate event of having to appeal a picky IO's decision not to renew ?

 

[MarioYYZ]

Not one of these fine 3 but my 2 cents......all I see from your list of documentation is passive proof of presence in Canada. You can have all of these even if not residing in Canada. Good you filed taxes...with a zero income coupled with extensive travel this has RQ written all over it. The PR RQ has some similarities to the Citizenship RQ but splits the documentary evidence over 2 sets of forms one exclusively targeting your travel history. In your shoes I'd get records of movements from the other countries you traveled to on the premise it was mostly travel to one or two countries. Your CBSA records just show your entries into Canada not when you left unless you've transited the US on departure from 2013 onwards.

Thank you Msafiri, your input is nothing less than important and I really appreciate it.

Yes CBSA records show entries but I have them matched with foreign entry/exit stamps. I am hoping this would satisfy a typical IO looking for a trail.
On a side note, do you think it would be a good idea to submit the stamp-reference excel sheet with the IMM5444 the first time I apply, or should i wait to submit that when I get the RQ ?

 

[on-hold]

On-Hold, thanks for the reply. I have good, substantiated answers to all those questions. I still don't qualify to apply for citizenship: 1095 days have only been accumulated in the last 5 years, not 4. My strong hesitation about applying is not to avoid an RQ at all. My hesitation really stems from the fact that everyone on here keeps saying "if what you say is correct...if you're honest...if you're truthful, then apply". Being honest has no place in immigration court, proof does.

Many times, securing evidence beyond foreign exit/entry stamps (along with a CBSA travel report) is quite difficult and I wanted to get a fairly good idea if this much proof is usually sufficient in a case like mine. I've had a rough 4 years since I landed and I had to frequently go back and attend to my elderly parents. I knew I was in for a residency merry-go-round from the beginning and so I couldn't tie myself up with a company and I tried my very best to keep a trail whenever possible. I did declare world income and I'm all set with the taxes. All stamps in my passport belong to 2 countries only (where my parents lived/were being treated) and my excel sheet pinpoints and references every one of them, then matches them to an entry on the CBSA records.
That is the only proof I have. That is what I'm able to mention on an RQ. Now, do excuse my repetition and I know nobody's a lawyer here, but would you think that what I am able to submit constitutes sufficient proof in the unfortunate event of having to appeal a picky IO's decision not to renew ?

I'm not a lawyer, but I think that the burden of proof for renewing a PR card is far below that of citizenship, and the onus is going to be on CIC. Just go ahead and apply, it would be silly to wait for two years just so things look better. Don't mention your gigantic collection of receipts unless someone asks. PR cards aren't just for people who come here and fit right in, get middle management jobs and buy houses -- we didn't have an easy time either, at first, it's totally normal and you shouldn't have to deform your life for two years because of it.

 

[Msafiri]

Thank you Msafiri, your input is nothing less than important and I really appreciate it.

Yes CBSA records show entries but I have them matched with foreign entry/exit stamps. I am hoping this would satisfy a typical IO looking for a trail.
On a side note, do you think it would be a good idea to submit the stamp-reference excel sheet with the IMM5444 the first time I apply, or should i wait to submit that when I get the RQ ?

Sounds good to me...include the excel sheet. Even RQd applicants can and do get their PR Card eventually. The issue really is travel between application and PR Card being received. If you don't have a visitor visa exempt passport then its a hassle applying for PRTDs which are one time use only. Many PRs have a US visa to enable land border crossings but this is ok if you live say in Windsor, ON with Detroit, MI just across the tunnel but a pain if you live in Fort McMurray where the nearest US border is thousands of klicks away. I wonder too what happens if for some reason CBP bounce your US entry....!!

 

[Zaraali]

Hello!

I would really appreciate some good advice.

We (family of four) arrived in Canada a month before expiration of our PR cards. Since then we have been living here and hopefully after 10 months we shall be able to renew our cards. My concern is that as my husband has been working here full time and my children have been going to school, they have sufficient proof of their stay in Canada. However, I am a housewife and the only proof that I have is a driver's license, and a few medical receipts. Will this be enough proof for the renewal of my card? What else can I do in these few months?

Thanks

 

[Msafiri]

Hello!

I would really appreciate some good advice.

We (family of four) arrived in Canada a month before expiration of our PR cards. Since then we have been living here and hopefully after 10 months we shall be able to renew our cards. My concern is that as my husband has been working here full time and my children have been going to school, they have sufficient proof of their stay in Canada. However, I am a housewife and the only proof that I have is a driver's license, and a few medical receipts. Will this be enough proof for the renewal of my card? What else can I do in these few months?

Thanks

Start off by filing taxes.

 

[Zaraali]

Thanks Msafiri…I have done that although with zero income.