Renewing PR card with unique residency circumstances...

[jnt211]

I am a Canadian citizen, my husband and son are PRs. We moved to Toronto in fall 2019 and planned to live in Canada permanently (while there our second child was born, so she too is a citizen). Due to Covid we ended up relocating back to the US at the end of 2020 - so lived in Canada about 400 days.

Since moving back to the US my husband and son have always been living with me (and my daughter). My understanding is that this will therefore continue to meet the residency requirement since they are living with a Canada citizen - is that understanding correct?

We still plan to move back to Canada, but if we don't before their cards expire in Sept 2024 -when should they begin to apply for renewal? Would renewing from the US be an issue?

I so appreciate any knowledge -- thank you!

 

[Ponga]

I am a Canadian citizen, my husband and son are PRs. We moved to Toronto in fall 2019 and planned to live in Canada permanently (while there our second child was born, so she too is a citizen). Due to Covid we ended up relocating back to the US at the end of 2020 - so lived in Canada about 400 days.

Since moving back to the US my husband and son have always been living with me (and my daughter). My understanding is that this will therefore continue to meet the residency requirement since they are living with a Canada citizen - is that understanding correct?

We still plan to move back to Canada, but if we don't before their cards expire in Sept 2024 -when should they begin to apply for renewal? Would renewing from the US be an issue?

I so appreciate any knowledge -- thank you!

In theory...yes. However...it could be a matter of why you chose to leave Canada.

There had been much discussion in these forums regarding the `who followed whom' principle in terms of meeting the Residency Obligation. Here's one example:

Time spent outside of Canada with a Canadian citizen can in certain circumstances be counted towards your PR residency obligation - however IRCC will sometimes/often apply the "who accompanied whom" rule when making this determination. What were the circumstances under which you left Canada in Nov 2017? Did you leave based on a job offer your Canadian citizen spouse received outside of Canada? Or based on a job offer you received? Or for another reason? The answer to this question is quite important since it will factor into whether you actually meet the residency obligation and qualify to renew your PR card.

The most recent discussions seem to indicate that most PRs in your family's situation would be seen as having met/meeting the R.O.

They can apply to renew their cards 9 months before they expire but unless things have changed, would need to be in Canada to do so. The new card(s) will only be mailed to an address in Canada.

 

[jnt211]

Thank you!

So, our why was that our jobs were eliminated in Toronto and we had no income (hospitality 2020/2021, bad timing). How would that impact things one way or another?

Understood as far as renewing the card. Could we just have it sent to a family members house in Canada or do we need to be physically living there ourselves?

 

[Ponga]

Thank you!

So, our why was that our jobs were eliminated in Toronto and we had no income (hospitality 2020/2021, bad timing). How would that impact things one way or another?

Understood as far as renewing the card. Could we just have it sent to a family members house in Canada or do we need to be physically living there ourselves?

Not sure if the reason for moving to the U.S. will `really' be an issue; only that it could be an issue. How are you able to legally work in the U.S.? Are you able to work there? If not...it could been seen that you followed him, in the eyes of IRCC, but again...it may or may not be an issue.

You do not have to be physically living in Canada, so having it mailed to a relative to be forwarded, is fine.

FYI...if your husband and son are U.S. citizens (with U.S. passports)...they may not even really need a valid PR card until you are ready to resettle in Canada, as it would likely be required for obtaining provincial health coverage, a DL, etc.
Only a U.S. citizen with a valid passport (that is also a PR of Canada) is allowed to travel commercially back to Canada without the need for an eTA. They would not need a PRTD to fly (but shouldn't alert to the airline that they also have PR status in Canada). Other PRs must have a valid card to fly.

Having said all that, if it's possible for you to return to Canada before their cards expire, it's best to apply for the renewals at that time.

 

[jnt211]

Not sure if the reason for moving to the U.S. will `really' be an issue; only that it could be an issue. How are you able to legally work in the U.S.? Are you able to work there? If not...it could been seen that you followed him, in the eyes of IRCC, but again...it may or may not be an issue.

You do not have to be physically living in Canada, so having it mailed to a relative to be forwarded, is fine.

FYI...if your husband and son are U.S. citizens (with U.S. passports)...they may not even really need a valid PR card until you are ready to resettle in Canada, as it would likely be required for obtaining provincial health coverage, a DL, etc.
Only a U.S. citizen with a valid passport (that is also a PR of Canada) is allowed to travel commercially back to Canada without the need for an eTA. They would not need a PRTD to fly (but shouldn't alert to the airline that they also have PR status in Canada). Other PRs must have a valid card to fly.

Having said all that, if it's possible for you to return to Canada before their cards expire, it's best to apply for the renewals at that time.

That's great to know as far as it being sent to a relative. I am able to work in the US because I am a dual US/Canadian citizen. Yes, they are both US citizens/passport holders. The biggest reason we wanted the PR documentation before moving is so that my husband can work immediately and we can have OHIP. We all have OHIP cards currently from when we were living there but I am not sure if they will still be valid if we moved away for a period of time (is there a way for the system to know this)? I appreciate your expertise!

 

[Ponga]

That's great to know as far as it being sent to a relative. I am able to work in the US because I am a dual US/Canadian citizen. Yes, they are both US citizens/passport holders. The biggest reason we wanted the PR documentation before moving is so that my husband can work immediately and we can have OHIP. We all have OHIP cards currently from when we were living there but I am not sure if they will still be valid if we moved away for a period of time (is there a way for the system to know this)? I appreciate your expertise!

Typically a PR does not need to have a valid PR Card to work in Canada, unless an employer would need to see it, I suppose. As you probably already know, PR status does not expire; only the PR Card expires.

Regarding OHIP, `The Google' led me to this:

To be eligible for OHIP you must: Be a Canadian citizen or have immigration status as set out in Ontario's Health Insurance Act. Have your permanent and main home in Ontario. Be physically present in Ontario for 153 days in any 12-month period.

and, this:

OHIP Eligibility

You may be eligible for OHIP if you are included in one of the following categories:

• You are a Canadian citizen, permanent resident, or are registered as an Indian under the Indian Act;
• You have submitted an application for permanent residence in Canada, and Citizenship and Immigration Canada has confirmed that you meet the eligibility requirements to apply for permanent residence in Canada;
• You are a "protected person" e.g. a Convention Refugee or a person in need of protection.

AND

• You make your primary place of residence in Ontario;
• You are in Ontario for at least 153 days of the first 183 days immediately following the date you established residence in Ontario (you cannot be absent for more than 30 days during the first 6 months of residence);
• You are in Ontario for at least 153 days in any 12-month period.

I suppose the potential `grey area' would be that they were once residents of Ontario and left at the end of 2020. Do they now have to wait until they reach the 153 day milestone when returning to be eligible?

 

[jnt211]

Actually, I wasn't aware of that distinction. I thought it was the status along with the card that was renewed at 5 years. Thank you, that's a vital distinction!!!

Ditto what you found about OHIP, when I researched I also wasn't clear if the 153 would restart when we move back or if it was just upon the initial move.

 

[Ponga]

Actually, I wasn't aware of that distinction. I thought it was the status along with the card that was renewed at 5 years. Thank you, that's a vital distinction!!!

Ditto what you found about OHIP, when I researched I also wasn't clear if the 153 would restart when we move back or if it was just upon the initial move.

You're welcome.

The PR Card is like a passport, meaning that even when it expires, the holder still has the same status; it just can no longer be used as a travel document, or identity document. Having said that, I do seem to recall that an expired card can be used for some things in Ontario (maybe obtaining a DL or ID)?

 

[Ponga]

https://www.ontario.ca/page/acceptable-identity-documents

Canadian Permanent Resident card with signature

It doesn't indicate that the card must be valid, only that it shows the legal name, DOB and signature of the PR, which an expired card shows.

 

[skarme312]

I am a Canadian citizen, my husband and son are PRs. We moved to Toronto in fall 2019 and planned to live in Canada permanently (while there our second child was born, so she too is a citizen). Due to Covid we ended up relocating back to the US at the end of 2020 - so lived in Canada about 400 days.

Since moving back to the US my husband and son have always been living with me (and my daughter). My understanding is that this will therefore continue to meet the residency requirement since they are living with a Canada citizen - is that understanding correct?

We still plan to move back to Canada, but if we don't before their cards expire in Sept 2024 -when should they begin to apply for renewal? Would renewing from the US be an issue?

I so appreciate any knowledge -- thank you!

Your understanding is correct that since your husband and son are living with you (a canadian citizen), you continue to meet the residency obligation. Regarding renewal, they will not send cards outside Canada. You may also be asked to pick up the card. So while you can send the application from anywhere - these days it can be done online, your address for sending the cards must be in Canada.

Also, since you are in the USA, you can always drive across a land border without a valid PR card. You may have to explain to the officer how your son and child meet the residency obligation.

 

[Ponga]

Your understanding is correct that since your husband and son are living with you (a canadian citizen), you continue to meet the residency obligation. Regarding renewal, they will not send cards outside Canada. You may also be asked to pick up the card. So while you can send the application from anywhere - these days it can be done online, your address for sending the cards must be in Canada.

Also, since you are in the USA, you can always drive across a land border without a valid PR card. You may have to explain to the officer how your son and child meet the residency obligation.

The `Who followed whom' assessment has been used previously by CIC/IRCC in assessing the R.O. for a PR living abroad with a Canadian spouse. Perhaps the overwhelming majority have been approved, but not all of them have been positive decisions.

Also, even with an expired PR Card a PR can still present it to the CBSA officer at a land border to re-enter Canada. The officer will verify that the PR status has not been revoked or renounced, and if neither apply, the PR will be allowed to enter...but will likely have to answer questions as to why they did not renew their card.

 

[steaky]

Thank you!

So, our why was that our jobs were eliminated in Toronto and we had no income (hospitality 2020/2021, bad timing).

Why hospitality 2020/2021, bad timing? There's a period of mandatory hotel quarantine requirement for travelers coming to Canada in 2021 and many hotels in Toronto offered such reservations. I nearly had to book my hotel reservation in Richmond, BC until the Government scrapped the policy that August.

 

[Ponga]

Why hospitality 2020/2021, bad timing? There's a period of mandatory hotel quarantine requirement for travelers coming to Canada in 2021 and many hotels in Toronto offered such reservations. I nearly had to book my hotel reservation in Richmond, BC until the Government scrapped the policy that August.

The hospitality industry is much more than just hotel workers.

 

[steaky]

The hospitality industry is much more than just hotel workers.

Sure Hospitality industry includes food and beverage service and a lot of businesses thrived and expanded during Covid. This include online food ordering and delivery platform such as Uber Eats. Have you tried online delivery from your local grocery / supermarket chain?

 

[armoured]

Sure Hospitality industry includes food and beverage service and a lot of businesses thrived and expanded during Covid. This include online food ordering and delivery platform such as Uber Eats. Have you tried online delivery from your local grocery / supermarket chain?

What is the point of this? There are other parts of hospitality industry like international tourism that came to a halt.

And it's none of your business anyway. Whatever. It was bad timing for them. Drop it and let them figure out their lives without a lecture.