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Re-applying for PR after losing it because of unmet obligations

nadeem82

Newbie
Jul 24, 2009
7
0
I received PR status back in 2007 but because I stayed outside the Canada for more than 3 years, I have lost my PR Obligation. PR card is valid till 2012 though. I am now considering re-gaining by PR status (for good this time).

I know there is an appeal process, but honestly I don't have any humanitiarian grounds to appeal on so basically the only option I can see right now I starting the PR application all over again. I'm fine with that except I wanted to know if its even possible?

Does Canada let people re-apply after they have lost their old PR?
Do they hold the inability to keep your PR obligation in the past against you when your re-apply?
Has anyone had any experience with this procedure?
 

Leon

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Jun 13, 2008
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There are no rules stating that you can not apply again after having lost your PR due to residency requirements and there are no rules saying it will be held against you. However, you still have PR until you officially lose it. You should talk to the visa office responsible for your area about relinquishing your PR officially before you try to apply again.
 

Babalukitas

Newbie
Apr 20, 2011
2
0
Hey , I want to ask you how your case went. I have the same situation as you and im not sure what to do. Did you try to talk to any CIC officer? I have more than 3years living in my country and my PRcard expire in August 2012. Pls, help me.
 

Alabaman

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Apr 24, 2009
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Babalukitas said:
Hey , I want to ask you how your case went. I have the same situation as you and im not sure what to do. Did you try to talk to any CIC officer? I have more than 3years living in my country and my PRcard expire in August 2012. Pls, help me.
You should read this thread:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/urgent-advice-concerning-studying-outside-canada-under-pr-for-more-than-3yrs-t65037.0.html;msg627946#msg627946
 

nadeem82

Newbie
Jul 24, 2009
7
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I crossed into Canada via Land Border from the US twice with my PR Card. Although I have not met my PR obligations, the first time the officer didn't even ask me anything and waved me through. The next time, the officer gave me a hard time about not living in Canada (and rightly so) but even she waved me through.

However, I like to travel to Canada every now and then and now I don't want to deal with the stress of explaining myself at the border. So I'm contemplating of surrendering my PR. Firstly because I want to get a visitor visa now and travel hassle free. Secondly because I want to be able to re-apply for PR again in the near future and stay in Canada this time. ( I don't think I can renew now based on my unmet obligations).

So I'm going to consult some lawyers about it and then surrender my PR and get a visitor visa. However, I will keep Canada on the radar for applying for a PR again in the future (when I'm sure I want to live there.)
 

Leon

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Jun 13, 2008
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nadeem82 said:
Secondly because I want to be able to re-apply for PR again in the near future and stay in Canada this time. ( I don't think I can renew now based on my unmet obligations).
If you were ready to move to Canada now, you could go now with your PR card. If they let you in again, you would have to stay for 2 years and then you meet the residency requirements again and can apply to renew. It would of course be a problem if you have gotten ready to move and then they don't let you in. Same thing if you are not ready to move before your PR card expires.
 

nadeem82

Newbie
Jul 24, 2009
7
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That's interesting. I thought once you didn't meet the 2 out of 5 year obligation, you lose your residency even if you managed to get into Canada and spend another 2 years.

Another thing I noticed when crossing land borders is that Canadian Immigration does not Stamp my passport or Swipe my PR card. So how do they record when I entered Canada? Or for the matter of fact, when I left Canada? (for the US)

So if I were to live 730 days straight in Canada, I could potentially travel to US as much as I want (for lets say short 1-2 day trips), truthfully admit at the border that I was only gone for a few days but still meet the 730 day residency requirement (Since they don't seem to record your entry).

Again, I'm not trying to game the system but just wondering how they keep record of absence from Canada (when the person is going to the United States only).
 

Leon

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Jun 13, 2008
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There are people who have managed to fool the system and lie about their absences from Canada in order to keep their PR or apply for citizenship but the problem you face is that you don't know what they know. They work with the US border agency so whatever the US knows, Canada can also get a hold of and if you are caught lying, then you are in trouble.

If you go to Canada after failing to meet the residency requirements and actually get in, the safe thing to do is to stay in Canada for the next 2 years without leaving. Going to the US for a few days is always a bit risky because on one of those trips they may report you for not meeting the requirements and then you will lose your PR. After your PR card expires, it will also be harder for you to enter Canada, same if you lose it while you are outside Canada.

They generally to not check if you meet the residency requirements except as you are entering Canada coming from another country or when you apply for your PR card renewal or travel document. When you apply for a renewal, they only look at the last 5 years. They are not allowed to go further back. Therefore, if you get into Canada while not meeting the requirements, you should sit tight and not apply to renew even if your PR card expires until you have your 730 days. Then you apply, they look at the last 5 years, see that you have spent two years in Canada and then they must renew.

You can read about this here:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf - page 7 said:
For persons who have been permanent residents of Canada for more than five years, the only five-year period that can be considered in calculating whether an applicant has met the residency obligation is the one immediately before the application is received in the visa office. A28(2)(b)(ii) precludes a visa officer from examining any period other than the most recent five-year period immediately before the date of receipt of the application.
Even if a person had resided away from Canada for many years, but returned to Canada and
resided there for a minimum of 730 days during the last five years, that person would comply with the residency obligation and remain a permanent resident. An officer is not permitted to consider just any five-year period in the applicant’s past, but must always assess the most recent five-year period preceding the receipt of the application.
 

Alabaman

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Apr 24, 2009
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I have argued this several times on this forum and I still maintain that what they know is only as good as what you tell them and the stamps on your passport.
 

Manny

Hero Member
Dec 31, 2008
360
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Category........
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2171
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App. Filed.......
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Doc's Request.
Nov 25, 2009
Nomination.....
Dec 07, 2009 CIC App. Filed.: Mar 15, 2010
AOR Received.
Jul 06, 2010
Med's Request
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Dec 15, 2010
VISA ISSUED...
Dec 23, 2010
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Apr 07, 2011
So what is the proof that we need to offer to CIC to establish we were in Canada for 730 days? This is especially difficult when we are staying with a friend and not having a job for the initial few months.
Passport is not stamped when you exit Canada (or when you re-enter US) even when you fly. So stamp on passport is no proof. The only proof is our own statement in the customs form when we enter Canada - where we need to mention the number of days stay in Canada.

Alabaman said:
I have argued this several times on this forum and I still maintain that what they know is only as good as what you tell them and the stamps on your passport.
 

tegveer

Star Member
Aug 15, 2009
77
1
Hey man! I am in quite a similar situation studying here in India ???. please do let me know how your case went(stegveer@yahoo.co.in) . If its of any help , in order to cancel your PR status , you should apply for a travel document , a residency determination will be done as the part of the procedure, hence your PR card will be cancelled and your good to apply again :D
 

Hadeel awad

Newbie
Jul 3, 2013
1
0
surrendering PR

I have already surrender my
PR in order to get a study permit , can you advice the time limit of getting my study permit after surrendering my pr
 

dream16

Star Member
Dec 11, 2013
165
4
New York City
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29-09-2014
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11-10-2014
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Waived
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July 2015 (became PR)
Alabaman said:
I have argued this several times on this forum and I still maintain that what they know is only as good as what you tell them and the stamps on your passport.
This sounds like a big joke to me because if CIC is going by the word of mouth, unfortunately there's no shortage of scammers who would fabricate any kind of stories to bend the rules and make sure that the PR is active forever. I have nothing against anyone but looking for a concrete answer than some made-up stories.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
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05-10-2010
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05-10-2010
dream16 said:
This sounds like a big joke to me because if CIC is going by the word of mouth, unfortunately there's no shortage of scammers who would fabricate any kind of stories to bend the rules and make sure that the PR is active forever. I have nothing against anyone but looking for a concrete answer than some made-up stories.
I can guarantee that CBSA has access to flight manifests and have for quite some time now (maybe not all records - but certainly some). They also have access to US immigration records (again, maybe not all, but certainly some). I experienced this first hand about 5-6 years ago when entering Canada with my American husband (before he became a PR). The CBSA agent was able to rhyme off my husband's recent travel without even looking at his passport or passport stamps (he read everything off a computer). The travel he read off consisted of air travel for which my husband had passport stamps, air travel where my husband had no passport stamps, and land border crossings into the US. My husband hasn't just traveled to the US, but internationally as well. CBSA had it all. It was actually kind of freaky at the time because my husband didn't have PR yet and they were asking why he was spending so much time in Canada.