Racism in Canada

[canuck78]

Don't think it is really Canada's fault that many immigrants prefer living close to other members of their own religion/culture/ethnicity/etc. Some immigrants actually make an effort to do the opposite because they want to assimilate as fast as possible. Unfortunately because Canada accepts so many immigrants, especially from a few countries, there are some areas in Canada where you can live without learning English or French and live your life as you did in your home country. It is unfortunate and many Canadians (new and old) don't think it is good thing. Not much you can do about it though.

 

[rish888]

Don't think it is really Canada's fault that many immigrants prefer living close to other members of their own religion/culture/ethnicity/etc. Some immigrants actually make an effort to do the opposite because they want to assimilate as fast as possible. Unfortunately because Canada accepts so many immigrants, especially from a few countries, there are some areas in Canada where you can live without learning English or French and live your life as you did in your home country. It is unfortunate and many Canadians (new and old) don't think it is good thing. Not much you can do about it though.

I guess different people are different. Despite being an Indian citizen, I was born and raised in the West to parents who were born and raised West so my upbringing was similar to that of any other European kid so I guess I'm not in the ideal position to understand the experiences of immigrants from non-Western cultures who move to Canada.

To me assimilation has always been about the little things like going from "pavement" to "sidewalk" when I moved from the UK to the U.S. because the underlying Western culture is basically the same. I guess if I needed to start living in an Asian country I would stay in my Western bubble instead of assimilating because of the vast cultural differences, so maybe immigrants going from Asia to Canada feel the same way. However I believe if someone makes the conscious choice to not assimilate then they shouldn't expect to be considered Canadian either. To me everything is a two way street.

 

[canuck78]

I guess different people are different. Despite being an Indian citizen, I was born and raised in the West to parents who were born and raised West so my upbringing was similar to that of any other European kid so I guess I'm not in the ideal position to understand the experiences of immigrants from non-Western cultures who move to Canada.

To me assimilation has always been about the little things like going from "pavement" to "sidewalk" when I moved from the UK to the U.S. because the underlying Western culture is basically the same. I guess if I needed to start living in an Asian country I would stay in my Western bubble instead of assimilating because of the vast cultural differences, so maybe immigrants going from Asia to Canada feel the same way. However I believe if someone makes the conscious choice to not assimilate then they shouldn't expect to be considered Canadian either. To me everything is a two way street.

People immigrate for many reasons. It's unfortunate that some people have no intention of integrating/ There are many Canadians that would never marry a Canadian and will marry someone from their home country or their parent's home country. Although I realize that marriage in that case is a complicated arrangement and more than just a marriage. It's unfortunate because diversity and the intermixing of cultures is what makes Canada so great!

 

[thegentleman]

There are many Canadians that would never marry a Canadian and will marry someone from their home country or their parent's home country. Although I realize that marriage in that case is a complicated arrangement and more than just a marriage. It's unfortunate because diversity and the intermixing of cultures is what makes Canada so great!

I assume you mean, "There are many Immigrants that would never marry Canadians..." To be fair, people have the right to marry whom they wish. It has nothing to do with integrating. You have to factor in cultural differences. If a person has lived a certain way all their lives and now have migrated to a place with a totally different language and culture, is it fair to expect them to totally change their cultural outlook? I get what your saying about integrating because I hear it all the time but as human beings, it can be a little unreasonable.

 

[canuck78]

I assume you mean, "There are many Immigrants that would never marry Canadians..." To be fair, people have the right to marry whom they wish. It has nothing to do with integrating. You have to factor in cultural differences. If a person has lived a certain way all their lives and now have migrated to a place with a totally different language and culture, is it fair to expect them to totally change their cultural outlook? I get what your saying about integrating because I hear it all the time but as human beings, it can be a little unreasonable.

Yes I meant Canadians but I also meant of similar cultural background. There is often a preference to marry someone currently living in their home country versus marrying someone from their same cultural community already in Canada.

 

[francaispourquebec]

In my opinion there is no country that's free of racism. It all depends on the individual how s/he handles it and the effort s/he puts in trying to assimilate with the new surroundings, people, and society as a whole. In the US I have had supermarket cashiers wearing gloves just before billing me, people spitting next to me while walking on sidewalks etc. but surprise of surprises they have mostly been Asian, which is ironical considering I'm myself Asian although from a different country. And regarding Canada, I have experienced passive aggressive behavior only in Montreal and Quebec City, but none have been outright racist. I usually feel upset about it for about five-ten minutes, take it in my stride, and then keep going.

After all, I come from a country that speaks 350 languages, has people following six different religions, and has three distinct human races. So I have a lot of more scope for being racist if I want to. So I feel sorry for the lack of scope that racist people here have to deal with.

 

[sistemc]

Comming from Europe, it is only my accent that differs me from rest of the Canadian population. And I don't have a single bad experience here interacting with Canadians in every day life over many years.

But in my proffesional life I think that at my company native Canadians have better and easier ways to receive recognition and promotion. And that is IT high tech company where around half of the employees are immigrants.

 

[thegentleman]

However I believe if someone makes the conscious choice to not assimilate then they shouldn't expect to be considered Canadian either. To me everything is a two way street.

So in that case, do you think these Muslin women should discontinue wearing their religious head dresses (Hijab) in Quebec or do you think Quebec's ban is justified?
http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/quebec-passes-bill-62

 

[NetMecca]

So in that case, do you think these Muslin women should discontinue wearing their religious head dresses (Hijab) in Quebec or do you think Quebec's ban is justified?
http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/quebec-passes-bill-62

This is a somewhat off topic discussion as it is not a racism issue at all as far as I am concerned.

It is also a very complicated topic. Admitting that I am not a muslim (not associated with any religious group) and therefore cannot begin to understand the religious challenges associated with this, as an immigrant (Canadian citizen) living in Canada nearly 10 years, I do not believe that the intent of this regulation has anything to do with persecution of religion or race. It is a simple matter of making sure that people are able to identify themselves before receiving services they are entitled to as citizens. Can't truly be sure that you are actually rendering the service to the right person otherwise.

That said, I also believe that religious freedom is a value that Canada should uphold where at all practicable or possible, and it may be possible to make some special accommodations for these woman, so that their religious freedom is not impinged upon but officials rendering services can still identify the person. I would even be fine with my tax money being used to make this possible.

On the other hand. Nobody forced these families to move to Canada. It is somewhat hippo-critical to choose to move to canada (because Canada is such a great place to live, which I might add is because no one group (race, culture or religious group) is allowed to force their will onto another), and then expect conformity of all around with your beliefs and cultural rules, when you do not wish to respect the beliefs of the society you are choosing to find yourself in. "When in Rome you dress as the Romans do" (especially if you are choosing to be in Rome)

In the same line, I also find the insistence by Sikhs to wearing their head wear, when they are working in the RCMP (police) and as part of the RCMP uniform a problem. Working for the RCMP to my mind is a choice. Nobody is conscripted into the police force. Nobody forces them to do so and it seems to me that if you are choosing to be a police officer you should be willing to accept the Canadian uniform of a police officer (without any religios or culturally associated deviations). It is the uniform of the police and therefore not intended to define or offend but to reflect the society in which it operates. Unbiased and without undue influence) In fact when any grouping is permitted to push their beliefs onto a public organisation (like the RCMP) this does make me feel safe or served for that matter. It makes me feel very unsafe. What is the next step from there?...Communism or dictatorialism?...

Anyway, please understand that I do not mean or intend to offend with these statements, though I think that mutual consideration is, and should be a multi-directional thing, and one of those things that make Canada as great as it is.

Just saying.

 

[rish888]

This is a somewhat off topic discussion as it is not a racism issue at all as far as I am concerned.

It is also a very complicated topic. Admitting that I am not a muslim (not associated with any religious group) and therefore cannot begin to understand the religious challenges associated with this, as an immigrant (Canadian citizen) living in Canada nearly 10 years, I do not believe that the intent of this regulation has anything to do with persecution of religion or race. It is a simple matter of making sure that people are able to identify themselves before receiving services they are entitled to as citizens. Can't truly be sure that you are actually rendering the service to the right person otherwise.

That said, I also believe that religious freedom is a value that Canada should uphold where at all practicable or possible, and it may be possible to make some special accommodations for these woman, so that their religious freedom is not impinged upon but officials rendering services can still identify the person. I would even be fine with my tax money being used to make this possible.

On the other hand. Nobody forced these families to move to Canada. It is somewhat hippo-critical to choose to move to canada (because Canada is such a great place to live, which I might add is because no one group (race, culture or religious group) is allowed to force their will onto another), and then expect conformity of all around with your beliefs and cultural rules, when you do not wish to respect the beliefs of the society you are choosing to find yourself in. "When in Rome you dress as the Romans do" (especially if you are choosing to be in Rome)

In the same line, I also find the insistence by Sikhs to wearing their head wear, when they are working in the RCMP (police) and as part of the RCMP uniform a problem. Working for the RCMP to my mind is a choice. Nobody is conscripted into the police force. Nobody forces them to do so and it seems to me that if you are choosing to be a police officer you should be willing to accept the Canadian uniform of a police officer (without any religios or culturally associated deviations). It is the uniform of the police and therefore not intended to define or offend but to reflect the society in which it operates. Unbiased and without undue influence) In fact when any grouping is permitted to push their beliefs onto a public organisation (like the RCMP) this does make me feel safe or served for that matter. It makes me feel very unsafe. What is the next step from there?...Communism or dictatorialism?...

Anyway, please understand that I do not mean or intend to offend with these statements, though I think that mutual consideration is, and should be a multi-directional thing, and one of those things that make Canada as great as it is.

Just saying.

Couldn't agree more.

I dislike the term "Hijab" ban. There is a clear security reason behind this and to me safety comes first.

I also believe an abstinence from wearing readily identifiable religious symbols (for everyone) improves societal harmony. I quite believe in the French concept of laicite, but of course this is just my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own.

 

[thegentleman]

I dislike the term "Hijab" ban. There is a clear security reason behind this and to me safety comes first.

I agree as well. However, I disagree that this discussion is not related to racism.

I was listening to the muslim lady on the radio who is now taking the Quebec government to court and she considers this to be racial discrimination even though it has to do with her religious practices. Yes, we all as immigrants have made a choice to come to Canada but I foresee major issues being overblown much more than they are now because of this integration concept.

 

[vensak]

In a first place Niqab and Burka (as the Quebec ban has nothing to do with hijab), are the part cultural custom and not religious requirements. Same as female genital mutilation.
That some people believe that it is religion connected does not mean it is. It came from the cultural and historical background (at certain point is was necessary to protect women, that could be attacked easily). However in these days, it has very little practical use anymore (in most countries women are not attacked or harassed just because they wear normal cloth and their face is visible).

It would be kind of similar for naturist to demand to be able to walk naked because that is within their common practice. They can do it in their homes and in private properties but not in public.

And it would be the same for smokers to demand smoking in hospital and pointing out their rights to be offended.

So there are times that one or other group has to surrender part of their habits and customs so that they can coexist in the society.
And yes, they do have free choice to seek society that is closer to their need if they feel that the current one is not fulfilling them, but as a minority are not able to change it (in order to change something you need a majority of population willing to change it, which I doubt is the case here).

 

[thegentleman]

In a first place Niqab and Burka (as the Quebec ban has nothing to do with hijab), are the part cultural custom and not religious requirements.

Quote from the article: "In the past when debate has intensified over the wearing of religious symbols, Quebec has seen a spike in incidents of verbal and physical abuse toward Muslim women wearing the hijab head covering in public."

It would seem that they are using the words Niqab, Burka and Hijab interchangeably.
http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/quebec-passes-bill-62

 

[vensak]

Quote from the article: "In the past when debate has intensified over the wearing of religious symbols, Quebec has seen a spike in incidents of verbal and physical abuse toward Muslim women wearing the hijab head covering in public."

It would same that they are using the words Niqab, Burka and Hijab interchangeably.
http://nationalpost.com/news/politics/quebec-passes-bill-62

1. Hijab is covering your hair - sometimes different type of hair covers are used by different groups (orthodox jews, Amish.....)
2. Niqab is covering your face as well - it is a combination of a hijab and a thick veil where only eyes are visible.
3. Burka is covering your whole body - you look almost like a walking tent. Even your eyes are not much visible as they are hidden behind semi transparent eye openings.

The official law was aimed against face coverage but not hair coverage (as your face can be still recognized)

Just for the information, France has something similar and even more strict when it comes to religious symbols.(since 2004)
The reasoning behind is to keep the state and public matters apart from religion.

Going deeper in this matter will only end up discussing where the fear is coming from. It is not really helping any religion if a branch of extremist is kidnapping it for whatever reasons and spreading bad name of it world wide.
(Same like First nations were not really keen about Christianity seeing what was happening in the name of it in the past).

 

[mattjp1]

1. Hijab is covering your hair - sometimes different type of hair covers are used by different groups (orthodox jews, Amish.....)
2. Niqab is covering your face as well - it is a combination of a hijab and a thick veil where only eyes are visible.
3. Burka is covering your whole body - you look almost like a walking tent. Even your eyes are not much visible as they are hidden behind semi transparent eye openings.

The official law was aimed against face coverage but not hair coverage (as your face can be still recognized)

Just for the information, France has something similar and even more strict when it comes to religious symbols.(since 2004)
The reasoning behind is to keep the state and public matters apart from religion.

Going deeper in this matter will only end up discussing where the fear is coming from. It is not really helping any religion if a branch of extremist is kidnapping it for whatever reasons and spreading bad name of it world wide.
(Same like First nations were not really keen about Christianity seeing what was happening in the name of it in the past).

"Laicite" is actually a hot topic in France right now, where some Politicians are even playing around with laws to display religious symbols in their towns/regions.
Niqab and burka are banned in France for security reasons and it's easily understandable why. My personal opinion is that covering your face doesn't exactly help interacting with people and being integrated in a multicultural community.