Processing Time Of PRTD On H&C Ground

[7890033455]

Hello,
I have three queries:
1. What is the processing time of PRTD on H&C ground at New Delhi, India?
2. My PR card expired in Nov 2011 and stayed only 1 month in 5 years’ time. Not able to return because of hardship (fund crunch) in 2011. Now I have enough fund to settle in Canada and for children education I want to go back again. What is the probability of getting PRTD on H&C ? Fund showed $ 18,000.
3. Issue a PRTD means 100% assurance that I will get new PR Card for 5 years validity once I apply?
Thanks

 

[Beltex]

Hello,
I have three queries:
1. What is the processing time of PRTD on H&C ground at New Delhi, India?
2. My PR card expired in Nov 2011 and stayed only 1 month in 5 years’ time. Not able to return because of hardship (fund crunch) in 2011. Now I have enough fund to settle in Canada and for children education I want to go back again. What is the probability of getting PRTD on H&C ? Fund showed $ 18,000.
3. Issue a PRTD means 100% assurance that I will get new PR Card for 5 years validity once I apply?
Thanks

1- Don't know.
2- Not good.
3- If you get a PRTD on H&C grounds I believe you can get a PR card immediately but the RO is a rolling one unlike the first 5 year period.

 

[7890033455]

1- Don't know.
2- Not good.
3- If you get a PRTD on H&C grounds I believe you can get a PR card immediately but the RO is a rolling one unlike the first 5 year period.

2. But this is reality that I faced Hardship during those period and now I have overcome.

 

[Bs65]

Lack of funds is not usually an acceptable reason for H&C approval even less so as you have been away maybe 11 years less a month.

By all means try applying if that its what you want to do and if you are successful well done but odds are low for approval and more likely PR status will be revoked . Were your children even PRs at the time ?

 

[Rob_TO]

Hello,
I have three queries:
1. What is the processing time of PRTD on H&C ground at New Delhi, India?
2. My PR card expired in Nov 2011 and stayed only 1 month in 5 years’ time. Not able to return because of hardship (fund crunch) in 2011. Now I have enough fund to settle in Canada and for children education I want to go back again. What is the probability of getting PRTD on H&C ? Fund showed $ 18,000.
3. Issue a PRTD means 100% assurance that I will get new PR Card for 5 years validity once I apply?
Thanks

2 - I would say your chances of PR TD being approved are practically zero. From my count you have 1 month presence in past 10+ years? You should prepare for likely scenario it will be denied and process started to revoke your PR status.

As mentioned financial concerns are typically NOT valid H&C factors.

 

[dpenabill]

Hello,
I have three queries:
1. What is the processing time of PRTD on H&C ground at New Delhi, India?
2. My PR card expired in Nov 2011 and stayed only 1 month in 5 years’ time. Not able to return because of hardship (fund crunch) in 2011. Now I have enough fund to settle in Canada and for children education I want to go back again. What is the probability of getting PRTD on H&C ? Fund showed $ 18,000.
3. Issue a PRTD means 100% assurance that I will get new PR Card for 5 years validity once I apply?
Thanks

The responses from Beltex and Bs65 cover the situation.

If you meet current qualifications you can apply anew for PR. Applying for and being denied a PR Travel Document is a step in that direction since you need a formal adjudication that your current PR status is terminated, or formally surrender PR status, before you can apply again.

2. But this is reality that I faced Hardship during those period and now I have overcome.

While I quibble with characterizations of H&C reasons as "acceptable" (or not acceptable) or "valid" (or not valid), since the Visa Office is required to consider ALL reasons why the PR did not return to Canada sooner (thus, all reasons must be accepted and considered, even if they end up being assessed as a negative factor), the gist of it in this situation is that financial difficulty settling in Canada is NOT likely to be anywhere near sufficient for IRCC to, in effect, excuse or waive the breach of the PR Residency Obligation.

Thus, while I am ordinarily reluctant to numerically quantify outcome probabilities, in general I have to agree with this:

. . . your chances of PR TD being approved are practically zero . . .
[and] You should prepare for likely scenario it will be denied . . .

Part of that post is overtly erroneous, however. Yes, odds are high the PR TD application will be denied, but it is NOT correct to say "and process started to revoke your PR status."

You should prepare for likely scenario [the application for PR TD] will be denied and process started to revoke your PR status.

To be clear: the decision to deny a PR Travel Document is a decision terminating PR status.

Once such a decision has been made PR status is terminated, gone, unless the PR succeeds in having that decision set aside (on appeal, or very rarely following a request for reconsideration). No further process is necessary.

Sure, PRs have a right of appeal, and can challenge this decision to terminate their PR status. And the PR has certain rights which continue so long as an appeal may be made and while an appeal is pending. But the denial of a PR TD application is the decision which terminates PR status.

Thus, for example, once the PR TD application is denied, all you have to do is wait for the time in which to make an appeal to pass, and you will then be a Foreign National (not a PR) who, if qualified, can apply again for PR status.


More observations about "hardship" based on financial difficulties:

This discussion is for a broader audience, recognizing as noted by others, financial hardship is NOT likely a sufficient reason for which IRCC will allow a PR to retain PR status despite a breach of the PR Residency Obligation. And recognizing that in the OP's situation, in particular, it is especially true that financial difficulties are not likely sufficient.

But as I previously observed, it is a valid reason which must be accepted for consideration in the H&C assessment. Thus, in conjunction with other factors, it may or may not have some positive influence, and if it does have some influence that may range from minimal to enough to make the difference.

Example: Explanation based on financial difficulties may make the difference for a PR arriving at a PoE with a valid PR card, during the first five years since landing, who is subject to being reported for a breach of the PR RO due to having been abroad more than 1095 days since landing, but who is only in breach of the PR RO by a relatively small margin.

In contrast, financial reasons for the delay in returning to Canada will have less influence the longer it has been since the last time a PR was in Canada and, more significantly, the bigger the breach of the PR RO.

H&C cases are, at best, tricky. H&C cases for excusing a breach of the PR RO are very different from other types of H&C cases. But they are nonetheless very difficult to make except in some specific circumstances, such as PRs who were removed from Canada while a minor dependent and who are returning to Canada soon after attaining the age of majority, or PRs who have well-established ties in Canada and the breach of the PR RO is relatively minimal.

In the past, PRs still within the first five years since landing also tended to be liberally allowed to return to Canada without being reported, notwithstanding a breach of the PR RO, but it is difficult to discern how liberal CBSA PoE officers are in these circumstances these days, other than to recognize the increased risk of being reported now compared to a decade ago or so; since 2012 or even a bit earlier, for example, many of the published decisions refer to PRs reported at a PoE who were still short of their fifth year anniversary of landing by well over a year.

Overall, for a PR with other H&C reasons to present, the PR should also present any financial difficulties in combination with those other reasons. In the PR RO breach case, the H&C evaluation depends a lot on the whole picture, how all the various aspects of the PR's situation fit together and whether in total they present an explanation for the absence which will persuade IRCC (or, in a PoE examination, CBSA) the individual deserves a chance to keep PR status.

 

[Rob_TO]

, but it is NOT correct to say "and process started to revoke your PR status."

Actually I would say it's completely correct, and will continue to use the same explanation going forward.

To be clear: the decision to deny a PR Travel Document is a decision terminating PR status.

Yes a decision to terminate has been made, however before your PR status is actually terminated there is a process that must be followed.

Once such a decision has been made PR status is terminated, gone,

Wrong. Once the PR TD (or being reported by CBSA) is denied, the PR is still a PR the next day. PR status is not instantly revoked meaning the next day you are no longer a PR so have no more rights as a PR. There is a process that must occur first, before one is officially no longer a PR.

If the PR does nothing, then this process will consist of waiting out the period where you have the right to appeal (I think 30 days). During the waiting period the individual is still a PR. After this process is completed, only at that time would PR status be then officially revoked/terminated/gone.

Or the process may consist of appealing, asking for reconsideration, etc etc. This then starts a whole other process in motion, all during which time the individual is still a PR. And again only after all appeals and such are denied, would PR status then be officially revoked/terminated/gone.

Saying there is no process to follow and PR status is terminated at time of PR TD denial, is merely arguing semantics and would only serve to confuse people in this situation. PRs need to understand the process they as PRs have the right to exercise in case of PRTD being denied or being reported by CBSA.

 

[dpenabill]

Saying there is no process to follow and PR status is terminated at time of PR TD denial, is merely arguing semantics and would only serve to confuse people in this situation.

Obviously, my view is that describing the decision to deny a PR Travel Document as "starting" the process to revoke PR status is both confusing and incorrect.

Bottom-line: a decision denying a PR TD terminates PR status UNLESS the PR successfully gets that decision set aside.

No further process is necessary for the individual to no longer have PR status. None at all is necessary.

To my view, it is important to avoid confusing the operation and effect of the decision versus the timing as to when this decision comes into force.

It is especially important to recognize this distinction given that it means the PR loses PR status UNLESS the PR takes affirmative steps to challenge the decision. Which is to emphasize that the PR himself or herself needs to take action, and if the PR does not take further action, PR status is GONE.

Obviously, my main concern is that some PRs in these situations might interpret an observation, that a denied PR TD application starts the process to terminate PR status, to mean or suggest they have time to wait to see what happens, to wait and see what further process there is to terminate their status. They should know better, of course, since they will get the notice of the decision and it will include information about what they need to do to appeal it. But those notices are rife with boilerplate and it is often difficult for those unfamiliar with these procedures to discern what parts even apply to them let alone fully grasp what they may need to do next if the want to contest the decision to terminate their status. In contrast, what they really need to understand is that this decision does, in fact and law, terminate their PR status UNLESS the PR (the PR himself or herself) takes affirmative action to make and successfully prosecute an appeal.

This distinction is probably even more important in the context of the 44(1) Report followed by the issuance of a Departure Order (usually, but not exclusively, procedures employed at a PoE when a returning PR is determined to be in breach of the PR RO). A few tend to also describe this as "starting the process" to terminate PR status. And many times I will post what, in many respects, is a CAUTION, that this does NOT merely start the process. Individuals in this situation need to be aware that despite then being allowed to enter Canada as a PR, the decision in the 44(1) Report terminates their status and the Departure Order triggers the time within which they must take affirmative action (to perfect an appeal) to challenge that decision.



As for semantics, I recognize that many in this forum sloppily employ various terms but there is no need to make a point of this in most contexts. For example, it is not correct to say that a PR's status is "revoked" since, rather, it is "terminated." But the technical difference between the two terms does not change the effect in any practical respect. So there is no point in noting such errors in terminology (except where doing so, such as here, helps to illustrate a principal; noting, though, there are other contexts in which the distinction between "revoke" and "terminate" does have substantive import, particularly where revocation is predicated on a determination that the status was invalid, such as revoked citizenship based on misrepresentations made during the process of applying for PR status many years previous).

In contrast, the misleading use of terms like "valid" (or "not valid") in reference to explanations for why a PR has not returned to Canada sooner warrants some attention, not so much because there is no such distinction (valid versus not valid) applicable to proffers of H&C reasons (except perhaps in the context that an untruthful explanation is not valid), but because it misleadingly suggests the explanation is not validly considered in assessing H&C reasons which might support a determination the PR retain status. Thus, while pointing out it is inaccurate to use the term "valid," in this context, is perhaps about semantics, I have done so in an effort to better illuminate the fluidity and variability of factors which can be considered in assessing explanations for absences in the PR RO H&C case, and to highlight in particular that yes, financial difficulties can be presented to support the H&C case for keeping PR status. That is, yes, reasons based on financial difficulty may be validly offered and MUST be considered by IRCC, even if IRCC ultimately gives those reasons very little positive weight.

 

[rish888]

Hello,
I have three queries:
1. What is the processing time of PRTD on H&C ground at New Delhi, India?
2. My PR card expired in Nov 2011 and stayed only 1 month in 5 years’ time. Not able to return because of hardship (fund crunch) in 2011. Now I have enough fund to settle in Canada and for children education I want to go back again. What is the probability of getting PRTD on H&C ? Fund showed $ 18,000.
3. Issue a PRTD means 100% assurance that I will get new PR Card for 5 years validity once I apply?
Thanks

Assuming you have a SIN card, your CoPR document (landing papers) and are willing to avoid foreign travel for 2 years there is another option. It may very well result in the same outcome as the PRTD application, but in my view offers marginally (emphasis on marginally) better odds.

You can enter Canada via the land border. You may be waived through, or you made be interviewed and allowed to pass through. You may also be reported (but usually you can avoid a report by renouncing your PR status then and there and entering Canada as a visitor for 6 months.)

If reported, and you elect not to renounce your PR status, you will most likely be issued a departure order. (But this will still allow you to enter Canada.) You will need to appeal within 30 days, but appeal odds for you are not good. If you still qualify for a fresh application for PR I do not recommend going down the appeal route. (Especially considering PR is processed way faster now than it was a while ago.)

But overall, your odds(even if it is marginally so) are better at the land border. You may very well be waived through (but there are no guarantees) in which case your PR status is safe. The trade off with the land border route is that you cannot leave Canada for 2 years. (You are effectively locked in.) Whether you are willing to accept this or not is a personal decision you need to make based on your circumstances.

 

[Rob_TO]

Bottom-line: a decision denying a PR TD terminates PR status UNLESS the PR successfully gets that decision set aside.

No further process is necessary for the individual to no longer have PR status. None at all is necessary.

.

Yes there is a process that is necessary. That process may be doing nothing and simply waiting the 30 days (or however long) for the right of appeal to pass. But that is still a process. Only after that process has completed, is the PR status terminated.

The only thing that happens upon PRTD denial, is the decision is made to terminate PR status on a future date. The way you describe it, makes it sound like PR status is instantly terminated which is simply incorrect as they are still technically a PR with full rights of a PR for a month or so longer, even if they do nothing.

I see no issue in describing it as starting the process to revoke (or terminate) PR status. The decision to terminate has already been made, so the main aspect is ensuring the PR understand the process after that decision happens, how much time they have from that decision before status if officially terminated, and their options to delay or challenge that decision.

As long as any poster understands the gist of their situation, then really the wording used to explain it is just semantics and the correct legalese use of terms is not as important.

 

[7890033455]

2 - I would say your chances of PR TD being approved are practically zero. From my count you have 1 month presence in past 10+ years? You should prepare for likely scenario it will be denied and process started to revoke your PR status.

As mentioned financial concerns are typically NOT valid H&C factors.

I should brief more details so that I can get proper information and here is the actual scenarios of my case with respect to apply PRTD:-

· Got Confirmation of Permanent Residence in April 2006 for myself, wife, son (6 Years) and daughter (4 Years)

· Landed in Canada in Nov 2006 alone as I need a job to maintain my family later they join. But no luck so I returned my home country. They also unable to reach as because my Son was suffering from Dengu Fever and unable to become PR and CRP expired.

· Faced Hardship (Fund crunch) but I always wanted to migrate top Canada for my Kids prospect

· Now I have overcome the hardship and want to migrate for my Son (17 years) and daughter (15 years)

I will be grateful to members to get the valuable information as I am very much worried at this moment as I have lost the eligibility to apply from fresh because of my age.

 

[Rob_TO]

I should brief more details so that I can get proper information and here is the actual scenarios of my case with respect to apply PRTD:-

· Got Confirmation of Permanent Residence in April 2006 for myself, wife, son (6 Years) and daughter (4 Years)

· Landed in Canada in Nov 2006 alone as I need a job to maintain my family later they join. But no luck so I returned my home country. They also unable to reach as because my Son was suffering from Dengu Fever and unable to become PR and CRP expired.

· Faced Hardship (Fund crunch) but I always wanted to migrate top Canada for my Kids prospect

· Now I have overcome the hardship and want to migrate for my Son (17 years) and daughter (15 years)

I will be grateful to members to get the valuable information as I am very much worried at this moment as I have lost the eligibility to apply from fresh because of my age.

As has been explained above, you can apply for a PR TD and include as much evidence of H&C reasons that you can think of to try and convince the visa officer you should keep your PR status.

If your H&C reasons are accepted and PR TD is approved, you can then return to Canada and immediately apply to sponsor your son (whether your son can travel to Canada also depends on if he can get a TRV or TRP approved).

If the PR TD is rejected, that starts the process to revoke your PR status meaning you would then need to appeal to try and keep it. Do nothing and your PR status would be terminated shortly later (I think you have 1 month to lodge an appeal).

It's my guess that the most likely decision on your PR TD app, is to have it rejected. You have been outside Canada 11 years and have zero ties to Canada, so in my opinion a reasonable visa officer will not accept your H&C claims. As mentioned, typically financial reasons for not meeting the RO are not given much weight, and your time outside Canada without ever attempting to return is incredibly long.

Alternatively instead of PR TD you can try getting a USA visa and entering Canada at a land border, but again my guess is the result would be the same in that you'd be reported by CBSA for non compliance of the RO, and would need to then lodge an appeal. Although in this case, you can stay in Canada while waiting for appeal and if you manage to integrate yourself into Canadian society that may have a positive impact at your appeal hearing (which may be 1-2 years away). You can't apply to sponsor your son for PR while an appeal date is pending. If your son is unable to get necessary visas to travel, this means you may need to live separate from your family for several years, and still have just a very slim chance at success to retain your PR status in the end.

 

[7890033455]

As has been explained above, you can apply for a PR TD and include as much evidence of H&C reasons that you can think of to try and convince the visa officer you should keep your PR status.

If your H&C reasons are accepted and PR TD is approved, you can then return to Canada and immediately apply to sponsor your son (whether your son can travel to Canada also depends on if he can get a TRV or TRP approved).

If the PR TD is rejected, that starts the process to revoke your PR status meaning you would then need to appeal to try and keep it. Do nothing and your PR status would be terminated shortly later (I think you have 1 month to lodge an appeal).

It's my guess that the most likely decision on your PR TD app, is to have it rejected. You have been outside Canada 11 years and have zero ties to Canada, so in my opinion a reasonable visa officer will not accept your H&C claims. As mentioned, typically financial reasons for not meeting the RO are not given much weight, and your time outside Canada without ever attempting to return is incredibly long.

Alternatively instead of PR TD you can try getting a USA visa and entering Canada at a land border, but again my guess is the result would be the same in that you'd be reported by CBSA for non compliance of the RO, and would need to then lodge an appeal. Although in this case, you can stay in Canada while waiting for appeal and if you manage to integrate yourself into Canadian society that may have a positive impact at your appeal hearing (which may be 1-2 years away). You can't apply to sponsor your son for PR while an appeal date is pending. If your son is unable to get necessary visas to travel, this means you may need to live separate from your family for several years, and still have just a very slim chance at success to retain your PR status in the end.

OK. In case of negative result, can I appeal and corresponding hearing the appeal from my Home Country ?

 

[Rob_TO]

OK. In case of negative result, can I appeal and corresponding hearing the appeal from my Home Country ?

Yes, you would be able to go through appeals process while in your home country. You would just need to file the intent to appeal in the allotted time after PR TD is refused.

Though as mentioned with zero ties to Canada and not being here for 11 years, I would have to guess the odds of an appeal being successful are incredibly low.

 

[Azara.t]

OK. In case of negative result, can I appeal and corresponding hearing the appeal from my Home Country ?

What happened with your case?