Procedural fairness letter

[ydd0713]

Hi all. Just this morning, we received a procedural fairness letter.

Please see below reason.

I have concerns that you have not provided evidence of an impediment to marriage (which may be in countries other than the Philippines) or impediment to cohabitation in a common-law relationship due to persecution or any form of penal control. It appears the reasons for not cohabitating are mainly economic. As a result, you do not appear to meet the definition of a member of the family class. Subsection 11(1) of the Act provides that a foreign national must, before entering Canada, apply to an officer for a visa or any other document required by the regulations. The visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the officer is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. For the reasons set out above, I am not satisfied that you are not inadmissible and that you meet the requirements of the Act.

My partner applied for a TRV ang was denied last year. Any idea how are we going to response in this letter? Please help. Thank you.

 

[DimT44]

Hi all. Just this morning, we received a procedural fairness letter.

Please see below reason.

I have concerns that you have not provided evidence of an impediment to marriage (which may be in countries other than the Philippines) or impediment to cohabitation in a common-law relationship due to persecution or any form of penal control. It appears the reasons for not cohabitating are mainly economic. As a result, you do not appear to meet the definition of a member of the family class. Subsection 11(1) of the Act provides that a foreign national must, before entering Canada, apply to an officer for a visa or any other document required by the regulations. The visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the officer is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. For the reasons set out above, I am not satisfied that you are not inadmissible and that you meet the requirements of the Act.

My partner applied for a TRV ang was denied last year. Any idea how are we going to response in this letter? Please help. Thank you.

Sorry to hear you got PFL. The conjugal class is the most difficult. You need to tell people more details if you want proper help. Here's the kind of information that would be necessary.

• Describe your relationship (provide this information in chronological order starting with the date on each new line)
• Why should you be considered for the conjugal class?
• List the kinds of evidence you provided
• Describe the quality and quantity the evidence you provided

 

[ydd0713]

Sorry to hear you got PFL. The conjugal class is the most difficult. You need to tell people more details if you want proper help. Here's the kind of information that would be necessary.

• Describe your relationship
• Why should you be considered for the conjugal class?
• List the kinds of evidence you provided
• Describe the quality and quantity the evidence you provided

Hi. Thanks for the response. Here are most of the details of our relationship.
I am a former filipino, my partner is a filipino as well currently working in Taiwan. We were co workers in Taiwan before. We are in a relationship since July 2010. We started our conjugal relationship in 2015. We presented a lot of supporting documents that prove that we are in conjugal relationship. We are same sex so we cannot live in the philippines, we also cannot live together in Taiwan as she is required to live in her dormitory provided by her company. We applied for her TRV coming here in Canada last year so we can live together here or marry but unfortunately her visa was denied. I visited her in Taiwan twice and we we open to her family and friends but not on my side as my family is very conservative.

 

[armoured]

I have concerns that you have not provided evidence of an impediment to marriage (which may be in countries other than the Philippines) or impediment to cohabitation in a common-law relationship due to persecution or any form of penal control. It appears the reasons for not cohabitating are mainly economic.

I don't have any special insight except for drawing attention to these few lines, that are the best evidence of what you need to respond to.

-Impediment to marriage - i.e. your spouse cannot travel to Canada or to other countries where you could get married (either of you previously married and cannot get divorced due to PH law?);
-It seems they have put emphasis on not being able to cohabit - does PH law forbid / have punishment for same sex couples living together?

-A side question - in those ten years, did you ever live together for twelve months or more? Has your partner had visas to many other countries (ie where you could have got married?)

(Economic - seems to me this is a red herring if the other two points - not being able to live together in Canada and not being able to live together in PH - are true).

This is up to you, but this MAY be a situation where a lawyer could help to craft a response that speaks directly and comprehensively to the reasons mentioned in the PFL. For example, to provide sources about the issues specific to PH like the laws on adultery (you may have these as well and should refer to them if you can).

It's possible LBGT groups could provide names of lawyers who are well-versed in the specifics of conjugal apps, you really may wish to check with some of them; or lawyers who know specifics of Philippines.

 

[armoured]

I am a former filipino, my partner is a filipino as well currently working in Taiwan.

The very first question that will come up is why you cannot get married in Taiwan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Taiwan

I don't know the specifics of Taiwanese law but I strongly suspect that THIS is the main reason you have received the PFL.

And I'm fairly confident that your conjugal application will be denied if you do not address this issue first and foremost - this is what is meant by impediment to marriage - and convince them that it is forbidden for you to marry in Taiwan (not just inconvenient).

 

[ydd0713]

The very first question that will come up is why you cannot get married in Taiwan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Taiwan

I don't know the specifics of Taiwanese law but I strongly suspect that THIS is the main reason you have received the PFL.

And I'm fairly confident that your conjugal application will be denied if you do not address this issue first and foremost - this is what is meant by impediment to marriage - and convince them that it is forbidden for you to marry in Taiwan (not just inconvenient).

We already exhausted this, but upon searching only taiwanese people allowed to marry same sex. We never lived together for than a year, also she had denied Canada TRV last year.

 

[ydd0713]

Will also look for an immigration lawyer who could help, hopefully we can find someone who will not ask for huge fee.

 

[DimT44]

we also cannot live together in Taiwan as she is required to live in her dormitory provided by her company.

This seems to me like an economic reason for not living together in Taiwan - for at least 1 year before applying as common law. Unless I'm missing something, but why can't she quit that job, find another one and live together with you?

I mean this seems like it's not a barrier, but a life choice and an economic one probably.

 

[ydd0713]

The very first question that will come up is why you cannot get married in Taiwan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Taiwan

I don't know the specifics of Taiwanese law but I strongly suspect that THIS is the main reason you have received the PFL.

And I'm fairly confident that your conjugal application will be denied if you do not address this issue first and foremost - this is what is meant by impediment to marriage - and convince them that it is forbidden for you to marry in Taiwan (not just inconvenient).

The very first question that will come up is why you cannot get married in Taiwan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Taiwan

I don't know the specifics of Taiwanese law but I strongly suspect that THIS is the main reason you have received the PFL.

And I'm fairly confident that your conjugal application will be denied if you do not address this issue first and foremost - this is what is meant by impediment to marriage - and convince them that it is forbidden for you to marry in Taiwan (not just inconvenient).

Thank you, this is also my suspect as the reason of the PFL since I was able to visit her in Taiwan twice. Thank you for responding.

 

[armoured]

We already exhausted this, but upon searching only taiwanese people allowed to marry same sex. We never lived together for than a year, also she had denied Canada TRV last year.

I suspect this is one of the main things - be sure to address the issue that non-Taiwanese cannot enter into same sex marriage. You will need to be specific.

It is possible ircc people are not aware of that restriction.

 

[ydd0713]

This seems to me like an economic reason for not living together in Taiwan - for at least 1 year before applying as common law. Unless I'm missing something, but why can't she quit that job, find another one and live together with you?

I mean this seems like it's not a barrier, but a life choice and an economic one probably.

In Taiwan, usually foreign workers are required to stay in the dormitory their company provided. We wanted to live together her in Canada that's why she applied for TRV last year.

 

[ydd0713]

I suspect this is one of the main things - be sure to address the issue that non-Taiwanese cannot enter into same sex marriage. You will need to be specific.

It is possible ircc people are not aware of that restriction.

Same-sex couples are able to legally register their relationship through special "partnership registrations" (Chinese: 同性伴侶註記)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Taiwan#cite_note-14 in 18 of Taiwan's cities and counties that account for 94 percent of the country's population. However, the rights afforded in these partnerships are very limited; there are as many as 498 exclusive rights related to marriage that include property rights, social welfare and medical care. A special certificate is issued to the couple, providing the partners with some limited rights, notably the ability to consent to surgery for a partner and parental leave. Requirements vary by local government, with some requiring both partners to be residents of the city or county.

Most of their cities required same sex couple to be a taiwan residents.

 

[charliem]

Same-sex couples are able to legally register their relationship through special "partnership registrations" (Chinese: 同性伴侶註記)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Taiwan#cite_note-14 in 18 of Taiwan's cities and counties that account for 94 percent of the country's population. However, the rights afforded in these partnerships are very limited; there are as many as 498 exclusive rights related to marriage that include property rights, social welfare and medical care. A special certificate is issued to the couple, providing the partners with some limited rights, notably the ability to consent to surgery for a partner and parental leave. Requirements vary by local government, with some requiring both partners to be residents of the city or county.

Most of their cities required same sex couple to be a taiwan residents.

You are going to need some official documents to prove the case, not information from Wikipedia.
This case is ready for a lawyer.
All the best.

 

[ydd0713]

oh my! after searching online looks like taiwan accepts foreign nationals now to get married there. Looks like it started in 2020. We were not aware of this. Will still get immigration lawyer and see if it will help. Otherwise, we'll just accept the refusal and marry in Taiwan next year.

 

[armoured]

oh my! after searching online looks like taiwan accepts foreign nationals now to get married there. Looks like it started in 2020. We were not aware of this. Will still get immigration lawyer and see if it will help. Otherwise, we'll just accept the refusal and marry in Taiwan next year.

It is worth speaking to a lawyer (I was going to make the same comment as @charliem above, that you will need specifics and not just wikipedia summaries).

I would speak to a lawyer ASAP - because there are nuances here (depending on when Taiwan started allowing foreign nationals to marry and when you filed, perhaps some argument), or about how to handle things such that you don't have to start over from scratch (eg could you fly to Taiwan immediately and advise IRCC, or ask for a delay, or I don't know)...

Of course if you are okay with getting rejected and starting over, fine, just that it likely does mean the whole process over again. (You can hope they would handle quickly because already seen some info but no guarantee of that)

Anyway, good luck. At least you do have a very viable option even if inconvenient (getting married in Taiwan).

Side note: nothing wrong with applying for TRV again. Sure, it might get rejected again, but it's not that expensive to apply and sometimes IRCC is nice (perhaps unintentionally but it does happen).