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PR > Left CA as a Minor > Expired PRC

atulkumar

Full Member
Sep 11, 2018
28
0
Hi sir my name is shraddha I was in Canada as PR and when I was 9 years (minor) and study in Canada 15 month I left Canada in 2012 but now I am 18+ so can I eligible to apply PRTD to go back to Canada for further study how can I get back PR card please reply soon and advise me please
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
25,644
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Based on purely observation on this forum it seems to have become harder to get a PRTD after being removed as a minor. Whereas before everyone seems to have been approved that is no longer the case. I assume it was because more and more cases were filed.
 

asaeed100

Star Member
Dec 4, 2019
77
4
Based on purely observation on this forum it seems to have become harder to get a PRTD after being removed as a minor. Whereas before everyone seems to have been approved that is no longer the case. I assume it was because more and more cases were filed.
"Based on purely observation on this forum it seems to have become harder to get a PRTD after being removed as a minor"

would you please care to provide references that made you come up with such conclusions
 

scylla

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Jun 8, 2010
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"Based on purely observation on this forum it seems to have become harder to get a PRTD after being removed as a minor"

would you please care to provide references that made you come up with such conclusions
I think this is just based on observations on this forum.

If you go back 2-3 years, everyone was being approved for PRTDs on this forum as long as they were 21 years old or under. We even saw approvals for 22 and 23 year olds. There was pretty much no question of approval if you were the right age.

IRCC seems to have changed their approach to this over the last year or so (again, based on what we've seen on this forum). We are seeing refusals on this forum where approval would have been guaranteed previously. Based on the refusal reasons, it seems there are two things that IRCC is starting to take more into account. One is the applicant's age and the other is the level of establishment in Canada. If the applicant and their family landed in Canada, stayed a very short period of time and then never returned - this seems to decreased the chances of success. If, on the other hand, the family lived in Canada for a number of years before leaving - this increases the chances of success. As for age, once an applicant is 20 or 21, this seems to now decrease the chances of approval (where previously it didn't seem to matter).

It's certainly possible to be approved for a PRTD if you are 20 or 21 - it's just no longer guaranteed. Before, it seemed to be guaranteed. So something has certainly changed / shifted in the last couple of years.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,315
1,459
"Based on purely observation on this forum it seems to have become harder to get a PRTD after being removed as a minor"

would you please care to provide references that made you come up with such conclusions
I have not seen the sea change others are reporting. But I can be a bit slow seeing these sorts of trends.

Nonetheless, forecasting the outcome of any H&C case is a fool's errand.

The official IAD decisions show outcomes going both directions.

Those who are still a Permanent Resident, but in breach of the Residency Obligation, can make their best case. Sometimes that requires a big investment. For example, those who can travel via the U.S. so as to arrive at a land crossing border, without making an application for a PR Travel Document, their best shot is to do that, travel to Canada via the U.S., hope to not get reported at the PoE, but if Reported appeal and stay in Canada pending the appeal. Yeah, making the trek is a gamble and not inexpensive.

Making the PR Travel Document application does not require a big investment, but it does cost some and does demand some effort.

My sense is that for PRs removed as a minor, in addition to making the effort to return to Canada (either via the U.S., or via the PR TD application) as soon as possible, by age 22 at the latest, the next biggest factor is the extent to which the minor actually had a life IN Canada (before being removed). But again, forecasting whether a Canadian officer will exercise discretion in favour of allowing the young PR to keep PR status despite not meeting their Residency Obligations (now referenced as "requirements" rather than "obligations" in new PDIs), is a fool's errand.

The second biggest factor seems to be the individual's credibility. That's really, really hard to measure.

If PR status is important, go for it, putting one's best but most honest case forward, and see how it goes. Ignore what anyone says about how it will go . . . except the visa office, if a PR TD application is made . . . or the PoE officers upon one's arrival in Canada.
 
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canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
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I think this is just based on observations on this forum.

If you go back 2-3 years, everyone was being approved for PRTDs on this forum as long as they were 21 years old or under. We even saw approvals for 22 and 23 year olds. There was pretty much no question of approval if you were the right age.

IRCC seems to have changed their approach to this over the last year or so (again, based on what we've seen on this forum). We are seeing refusals on this forum where approval would have been guaranteed previously. Based on the refusal reasons, it seems there are two things that IRCC is starting to take more into account. One is the applicant's age and the other is the level of establishment in Canada. If the applicant and their family landed in Canada, stayed a very short period of time and then never returned - this seems to decreased the chances of success. If, on the other hand, the family lived in Canada for a number of years before leaving - this increases the chances of success. As for age, once an applicant is 20 or 21, this seems to now decrease the chances of approval (where previously it didn't seem to matter).

It's certainly possible to be approved for a PRTD if you are 20 or 21 - it's just no longer guaranteed. Before, it seemed to be guaranteed. So something has certainly changed / shifted in the last couple of years.
Yes this is what I meant. While approvals seem to be a given we started seeing much more refusals. I assume that there was an increasein the number of applications where minors and their families has never established themselves in Canada. Most essentially landed and then left. In your case you are not a minor so as a whole family with family members who are not PRs it is a very different situation.
 

asaeed100

Star Member
Dec 4, 2019
77
4
I think this is just based on observations on this forum.

If you go back 2-3 years, everyone was being approved for PRTDs on this forum as long as they were 21 years old or under. We even saw approvals for 22 and 23 year olds. There was pretty much no question of approval if you were the right age.

IRCC seems to have changed their approach to this over the last year or so (again, based on what we've seen on this forum). We are seeing refusals on this forum where approval would have been guaranteed previously. Based on the refusal reasons, it seems there are two things that IRCC is starting to take more into account. One is the applicant's age and the other is the level of establishment in Canada. If the applicant and their family landed in Canada, stayed a very short period of time and then never returned - this seems to decreased the chances of success. If, on the other hand, the family lived in Canada for a number of years before leaving - this increases the chances of success. As for age, once an applicant is 20 or 21, this seems to now decrease the chances of approval (where previously it didn't seem to matter).

It's certainly possible to be approved for a PRTD if you are 20 or 21 - it's just no longer guaranteed. Before, it seemed to be guaranteed. So something has certainly changed / shifted in the last couple of years.
i would just add to what you have stated and while concurring to what dpenabill has been saying all along. dont speculate and dont try to make assumptions out of thin air, just to make a point. some of these so called "well wishers" have hidden agendas in certain PRO scenarios . that is to discourage the teenagers who would try to cheat the education system into giving local tuition as opposed to international. we get it.

to those who continue doing that, are (sorry to say) nothing but wolves in sheep's clothing.

i have yet to see any any reference from them either out of this forum or any other that there is a decline in approvals, etc

anyways my recommendation and suggestion to the applicants regardless of their age would be the following in that order

1) try to enter via the US (if they can afford) and stay put for 3+ years. there is a risk of getting reported/appeal as stated by dpenabill. hence the financial stability requirements.

2) apply for PRTD and take your chances. nothing to lose there, i guess.


i have had two successful applications. you just have to put all the focus on making it a H&C case.
it took my almost three weeks to draft the first letter.

the rest , you leave it to your Lord.



 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
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i would just add to what you have stated and while concurring to what dpenabill has been saying all along. dont speculate and dont try to make assumptions out of thin air, just to make a point. some of these so called "well wishers" have hidden agendas in certain PRO scenarios . that is to discourage the teenagers who would try to cheat the education system into giving local tuition as opposed to international. we get it.

to those who continue doing that, are (sorry to say) nothing but wolves in sheep's clothing.

i have yet to see any any reference from them either out of this forum or any other that there is a decline in approvals, etc

anyways my recommendation and suggestion to the applicants regardless of their age would be the following in that order

1) try to enter via the US (if they can afford) and stay put for 3+ years. there is a risk of getting reported/appeal as stated by dpenabill. hence the financial stability requirements.

2) apply for PRTD and take your chances. nothing to lose there, i guess.


i have had two successful applications. you just have to put all the focus on making it a H&C case.
it took my almost three weeks to draft the first letter.

the rest , you leave it to your Lord.
Those who see the same questions routinely saw a sudden change from all PRTDs for minors being approved to only a portion being approved. As I said I noticed the trend and so did others who answer these questions regularly. We are reporting our observations. You are free to search through the forum yourself and see the change yourself. We are not the ones making the decisions it is purely based on others posting on the forum when they get denied PRTDs.
when did your child get approved 2018/ early 2019? Your child may have been the one who got approved versus others that didn’t doesn’t mean our observations were wrong. As an adult not meeting RO with a child without PR the situation is very different which has been the majority of your posting.
 
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asaeed100

Star Member
Dec 4, 2019
77
4
Those who see the same questions routinely saw a sudden change from all PRTDs for minors being approved to only a portion being approved. As I said I noticed the trend and so did others who answer these questions regularly. We are reporting our observations. You are free to search through the forum yourself and see the change yourself. We are not the ones making the decisions it is purely based on others posting on the forum when they get denied PRTDs.
when did your child get approved 2018/ early 2019? Your child may have been the one who got approved versus others that didn’t doesn’t mean our observations were wrong. As an adult not meeting RO with a child without PR the situation is very different which has been the majority of your posting.
like i said, if you are going to make such wild & extreme assumptions or intelligent observations as you seem to think , you better be ready to back it up with numbers and data. i am not going to do that for you. otherwise people may not take you seriously and all your efforts in discouraging the applicants might go in vain

do please tell me what has a minor to loose if she/he didnt apply for PRTD? ???

in our case the first approval was in early 2019 and the 2nd was a month back i believe.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
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like i said, if you are going to make such wild & extreme assumptions or intelligent observations as you seem to think , you better be ready to back it up with numbers and data. i am not going to do that for you. otherwise people may not take you seriously and all your efforts in discouraging the applicants might go in vain

do please tell me what has a minor to loose if she/he didnt apply for PRTD? ???

in our case the first approval was in early 2019 and the 2nd was a month back i believe.
I don’t have to do anything actually. I correctly said based on my observation not all minors who were removed are getting approved. Others have noticed the same trend also clearly I am not making it up. I didn’t tell a minor who was removed not to apply for PRTD.

I have said that your plan to return with the rest of your family is not likely to work. You have not entered Canada in a very longtime and your plans to get your child without PR a TRV so they can join you when you enter Canada and try to appeal as long as possible.
 
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JamalZa

Newbie
Apr 8, 2020
1
0
Hello all, I hope all of you are safe and receiving this in good health,

I have a similar story, My family migrated to Canada back in the year 2000, and stayed in Canada for some years as a PRs, where I enrolled in a public school. During the crisis period in 2008 my parents left Canada since they did not find any job there and because my mother needed some medication after giving birth to my sisters, after which I never came back ( so we did not meet the 730 days minimum).

Fast forward to 2013, my PRC expired. I was 15 years old at the time.

I finished high school scoring very high ranked grades in international exams in 2015, but being under 18, I did not make a living. And hence I had no choice on where to study. There was a conference made by Canadian universities in my town, which I attended, and they told me to apply as an international and so I did not have any idea about issuing PRTD at that age. Due to family problems, and since my father wouldn’t fund my education, I had to apply to METU, a university in Turkey, where I got admitted with a full scholarship and funding.

At 21 years of age, I started working and studying simultaneously, and in Jan 2020, I graduated at 22 among the top students, and was offered a high ranked job, so I earned good money.

Now being financially stable, I am able to go back to Canada. Yet I will quit my job, as I would like to return to Canada and establish my life there and reside there permanently, as I was removed as a minor, I was essentially bound by decisions made by my parents on my behalf. And this is the earliest it was possible for me to return since it was not in my best interest to quit my degree, especially financially. I have applied to numerous Canadian universities for MASc and PHD and contacted numerous professors, and so I am committed to staying in the long run.

I have read most of the related forums around here, and I realize that my options are either to apply to a travel document or cross the US border, through a H&C claim. Yet I am unable to decide on which one to go for. I have US visa, and so that’s not a problem.

If I go through the land boarder, can I renew my card immediately? Is that also the case with coming through a PRTD? Im turning 23 this month and so I need to decide quickly.

I am sorry for the long post I only had to describe my reasons in a detailed manner. And with the COVID-19 regulations going on, i truly have my wires crossed.
 

canuck_in_uk

VIP Member
May 4, 2012
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Hello all, I hope all of you are safe and receiving this in good health,

I have a similar story, My family migrated to Canada back in the year 2000, and stayed in Canada for some years as a PRs, where I enrolled in a public school. During the crisis period in 2008 my parents left Canada since they did not find any job there and because my mother needed some medication after giving birth to my sisters, after which I never came back ( so we did not meet the 730 days minimum).

Fast forward to 2013, my PRC expired. I was 15 years old at the time.

I finished high school scoring very high ranked grades in international exams in 2015, but being under 18, I did not make a living. And hence I had no choice on where to study. There was a conference made by Canadian universities in my town, which I attended, and they told me to apply as an international and so I did not have any idea about issuing PRTD at that age. Due to family problems, and since my father wouldn’t fund my education, I had to apply to METU, a university in Turkey, where I got admitted with a full scholarship and funding.

At 21 years of age, I started working and studying simultaneously, and in Jan 2020, I graduated at 22 among the top students, and was offered a high ranked job, so I earned good money.

Now being financially stable, I am able to go back to Canada. Yet I will quit my job, as I would like to return to Canada and establish my life there and reside there permanently, as I was removed as a minor, I was essentially bound by decisions made by my parents on my behalf. And this is the earliest it was possible for me to return since it was not in my best interest to quit my degree, especially financially. I have applied to numerous Canadian universities for MASc and PHD and contacted numerous professors, and so I am committed to staying in the long run.

I have read most of the related forums around here, and I realize that my options are either to apply to a travel document or cross the US border, through a H&C claim. Yet I am unable to decide on which one to go for. I have US visa, and so that’s not a problem.

If I go through the land boarder, can I renew my card immediately? Is that also the case with coming through a PRTD? Im turning 23 this month and so I need to decide quickly.

I am sorry for the long post I only had to describe my reasons in a detailed manner. And with the COVID-19 regulations going on, i truly have my wires crossed.
You can try for a PRTD but being almost 23 years old, you are pretty much beyond the age that the H&C "removed as a minor" argument is accepted. Even those at 18/19 are often refused, especially when having left at a young age like you. You are likely to be refused and lose your PR status.

You could enter through the Canada-US land border but with a long expired PR card, your chances of being reported are high. You would be allowed in Canada but being reported would result in the loss of PR status.

If you manage to enter at the border without being reported, you would have to remain in Canada for 2 straight years to once again meet the RO and be able to apply for a new PR card. If you don't already have a SIN, you won't be able to get one until you get a new PR card, which means no working for over 2 years. You may also have issues with admission to schools as a domestic student without a valid PR card.