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PR card transferred to local office for further investigation

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,314
1,459
Update to reference Saeidi v Canada (Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness), 2018 CanLII 129890 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/hx72g which confirms date of examination, NOT date of PRC application, establishes the relevant five years for calculating RO compliance.

One could more or less infer, based on the outcome anecdotally reported by @Ninio, confirmation of my previous observations that if a PR stays in Canada after making a PRC application, those days continue to COUNT toward RO compliance, and as long as the PR has enough presence as of the date of a formal RO Examination status should not be lost despite being in breach as of the date of the PRC application. BUT, as I otherwise often caution, the outcome for a particular PR should NOT be relied on as establishing what the rule is, let alone what will happen for another PR in a similar situation.

Thus it is helpful to refer to an official source confirming that the relevant five year period for calculating RO compliance is the date of the examination . . . NOT the date the PR card application was made. Which the IAD in Saeidi v Canada (Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness), 2018 CanLII 129890 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/hx72g does.

In this case the PRC application was made before the fifth year anniversary of the date of landing, and the PR's submissions were inconsistent with the date of the application and other transactional dates in the course of processing the PRC application and subsequent 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility due to a breach of the RO. There is, consequentially, a convoluted accounting of dates . . . BUT ultimately there are two competing periods of time relevant to the assessment of RO compliance:

-- the five year period based on landing to fifth year anniversary; October 15, 2010 to October 15, 2015 (again, PRC application was in September 2015)

-- the five year period immediately preceding the date the PR came in for an interview/examination: July 14, 2011 to July 14, 2016​

Consistent with my previous observations, thus no surprise, the IAD ruled that the appropriate five year period for calculating RO compliance is the latter, the date of the actual examination. For this particular PR this did NOT favour him, since he was actually outside Canada most of the time period between the date the application was submitted (September 2015) and the date of the examination (July 2015), including after October 2015 (fifth year anniversary of landing) . . . and his credits for days present DECREASED.

In addition to confirming that for purposes of determining whether to issue a Departure Order (decision terminating PR status) the relevant calculation period is based on the date of the formal RO Determination, in a more general sense this further confirms some observations about prudent practices, NAMELY THAT THE PR cutting-it-close OR IN BREACH as of the date a PRC application is made, can benefit from STAYING IN CANADA after making the PRC application. And this is NOT merely about H&C relief. Days in Canada continue to count toward RO compliance right up to the date of the formal RO examination/determination.

(There are, of course, potential wrinkles in the details for particular PRs, such as situations in which, while time is passing in the process, some of a PR's days present might fall out of the calculation for being more than five years past. And this is of course another reason, and a big reason, why it is so dangerous to extrapolate what will happen to a given individual based on what has happened for someone else: there is almost always some variation in the factual details, and oft times those variations can dictate a different result.)

The H&C analysis in this case is also informative and instructive, and illustrates how complicated various factors can be.


Additional IAD case similarly concluding the relevant time period is based on the date of the interview/examination and NOT the date the PRC application is made:

see Petrov v Canada (Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness), 2018 CanLII 13985 (CA IRB), http://canlii.ca/t/hr31f

The panel stated:

There was some confusion between the parties at the hearing with respect to the relevant five-year period to be considered in this appeal. It seems that on February 5, 2013, the appellant submitted an application to renew his permanence resident card.[2] On July 3, 2013, the appellant met with an immigration officer responsible for assessing his compliance with the residency obligation. . . .
. . . I find that the relevant period is from July 3, 2008, to July 3, 2013.

(here too there were some other dates involved, but ultimately it is NOT the date of the PRC application but the date of the interview/meeting/examination that establishes the relevant five year period)


I came across these cases in my continuing homework to more fully and thoroughly outline the criteria for obtaining the working-abroad-for-a-Canadian-business credit . . . still working on that, albeit sporadically as time allows.
 
Last edited:

nioero

Full Member
Feb 18, 2019
25
4
Hi guys,

just want to share my experience and wondering what are my odds of getting the card soon.

Below is my timeline:

  1. We received your application for a permanent resident card on November 26, 2018.
  2. We sent you correspondence acknowledging receipt of your application(s) on January 8, 2019.
  3. We started processing your application on January 8, 2019.
Between, 2013 and 2016, I was under an expat assignment with my current employer and my payroll was done in Canada during the period. Shame on me that I did not provide my contract and T4 along with the application.

About 2 weeks ago, just before my card expired, I found out that my application was transferred to Hamilton. I subsequently fax the supporting document (original expat contract, current employee letter and T4s fro 2013 to 2016) to the local office. I have to travel to the US frequently for business purpose and I basically have to fly out of Toronto and on the way back, I fly to Buffalo and take a rental car to come home.

My online status has not changed since the file was transferred. Do you think the local office will contact me in the near future? Thanks!
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,314
1,459
There is NO reliable source of information about the timeline in such cases. No one can reliably predict how long it will take. I will outline the procedure in some depth below, which should illuminate some factors which can contribute to the process taking a good while, likely at least several weeks if not months more.

You may be comfortable and confident about meeting the PR Residency Obligation, and thus primarily concerned about the timeline. If you are confident you have no serious risk of a RO compliance problem, you can SKIP the rest of this post (or just read the procedural explanation if you are interested in that detail).

BUT based on the sketchy information you provide it is difficult to discern if there are reasons to be concerned about a possible negative determination as to Residency Obligation compliance. It appears that calculating RO compliance might depend on credit for time abroad working for a Canadian business. THIS CAN BE TRICKY. A lot more tricky than many PRs realize. So I offer some more in-depth observations about this . . . which again, you can SKIP if you are not worried about the RO compliance determination.

(Note, however, it is quite likely the application has been referred to the local office BECAUSE IRCC perceives a RO compliance issue . . . maybe a copy of your "contract" will resolve that, but that depends on who the employer is and the actual terms of the contract and the actual circumstances attendant the employment abroad. If you have concerns about RO compliance better to see a LAWYER, but there is nonetheless extensive discussion about this issue in the forum.)



Hi guys,

just want to share my experience and wondering what are my odds of getting the card soon.

Below is my timeline:

  1. We received your application for a permanent resident card on November 26, 2018.
  2. We sent you correspondence acknowledging receipt of your application(s) on January 8, 2019.
  3. We started processing your application on January 8, 2019.
Between, 2013 and 2016, I was under an expat assignment with my current employer and my payroll was done in Canada during the period. Shame on me that I did not provide my contract and T4 along with the application.

About 2 weeks ago, just before my card expired, I found out that my application was transferred to Hamilton. I subsequently fax the supporting document (original expat contract, current employee letter and T4s fro 2013 to 2016) to the local office. I have to travel to the US frequently for business purpose and I basically have to fly out of Toronto and on the way back, I fly to Buffalo and take a rental car to come home.

My online status has not changed since the file was transferred. Do you think the local office will contact me in the near future? Thanks!
SOME PROCEDURAL OBSERVATIONS:

The timeline is at best a GUESS, which is to say no one can reliably estimate how much longer IRCC will take to process the PRC application.

Most (but not all) referrals to a local office involve further investigation of the PR's compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. How this goes varies. PRs may be sent a Residency Questionnaire, requesting further information and documentation related to showing the PR's presence in Canada or entitlement to credit pursuant to one of the exceptions for time abroad, which might or might not be followed by the PR being scheduled for an Residency Determination INTERVIEW. Obviously these can result in a fairly long time line (several weeks to months more).

There is also the possibility that the local office is able to review the information and be satisfied the PR is in compliance with the RO without requesting additional information or documentation, without an in-person interview. (Resulting in some delay but not nearly so long as when the PR is sent a Questionnaire and scheduled for an Interview.)

In either case, when the local office makes a positive determination as to RO compliance (assuming the referral is about RO compliance), the file is referred back to the CPC in Sydney, and IRCC proceeds to issue a new card and arrange delivery of the new PRC (delivery to be by mail or sent back to the local office for delivery in-person).

But how long all this takes varies and can vary considerably. No one here can reliably predict how long it will take.

Then there is the possibility, DEPENDING on the facts of course, that there is a NEGATIVE decision as to RO compliance.

As I initially noted, if you are confident there is NO serious risk of a negative decision as to RO compliance, you can SKIP what follows. If you have some concern, BETTER to SEE A LAWYER, but otherwise I can offer some further in-depth information . . .


IF there is a Negative Determination as to RO Compliance:

If the local office makes a negative determination, as to RO compliance, that will typically result in the issuance of a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility. This would typically be a decision made at the time of an in-person interview, and the Report would be issued directly to the PR. Sometimes the decision is made after the interview, and again if it is a negative decision that will result in the issuance of the 44(1) Report. I am not clear about the precise procedures in this latter event since details about this are typically not recounted in the published IAD decisions. In any event, the Report is usually soon (but not always soon) followed by the issuance of a Departure or Removal Order.

The Removal Order is NOT immediately enforceable. The PR has at least 30 days in which to make an appeal. The PR retains status pending the appeal. NOTE, however, that as of the day the 44(1) Report is issued the PR NO LONGER gets any additional credit toward RO compliance (unless eventually the PR wins the appeal). Despite this, it is ALWAYS better for PRs to remain in Canada as much as possible pending the appeal; even though those days do not count toward RO compliance they can count as a positive factor in the H&C analysis and thus help the PR keep status despite being found to have breached the RO.



OBSERVATIONS ABOUT THE WORKING-ABROAD CREDIT:

As I have noted, based on the sketchy information you provide it is difficult to discern if there are reasons to be concerned about a possible negative determination as to Residency Obligation compliance. It appears that calculating RO compliance might depend on credit for time abroad working for a Canadian business. THIS CAN BE TRICKY. A lot more tricky than many PRs realize.

It is a bit of an over-generalization, but the rules governing credit for time working abroad tend to be so narrowly interpreted and strictly applied that it often seems that if the work abroad will count then the PR most likely has at least 730 days presence in Canada during the relevant five years (and thus does not need the credit) . . . or, conversely, if the PR actually needs the credit to be in compliance, it is NOT likely the the credit will be allowed. Again, this is overstating it by a fair bit, but serves to highlight how tricky qualifying for this credit can be.

IF there is some chance you might have cause to be concerned about getting this credit (that is, if you NEED the credit AND it is not quite certain you qualify for the credit . . . again, I cannot discern from what you have so far reported if there is cause to be concerned or not) . . . you might consider either (1) CONSULTING with a COMPETENT, LICENSED LAWYER (best approach), OR at least (2) reviewing available information about this credit and evaluating your situation.

As for the latter, there is quite a bit of discussion about this in several posts above. And, while I have not yet had time to consolidate and outline the criteria actually applied in cases about this credit, I am working on doing so and have otherwise addressed some of the more salient issues in the following topic:

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/working-abroad-ro-credit-including-business-trips-an-update.607559/

In that topic in particular, in the post I quote below (which includes a link to the post itself), I have cited and linked scores of official sources of information about this issue, including official accounts of many actual cases, and also included links to several other topics here where this issue is discussed.

(Note: a number of links in that topic do not properly work because I failed to delete angle brackets . . . the urls can be copied and pasted to go to the referenced source . . . and nearly all of those improperly linked are otherwise properly linked in other posts in that topic.)
 

nioero

Full Member
Feb 18, 2019
25
4
There is NO reliable source of information about the timeline in such cases. No one can reliably predict how long it will take. I will outline the procedure in some depth below, which should illuminate some factors which can contribute to the process taking a good while, likely at least several weeks if not months more.

You may be comfortable and confident about meeting the PR Residency Obligation, and thus primarily concerned about the timeline. If you are confident you have no serious risk of a RO compliance problem, you can SKIP the rest of this post (or just read the procedural explanation if you are interested in that detail).

BUT based on the sketchy information you provide it is difficult to discern if there are reasons to be concerned about a possible negative determination as to Residency Obligation compliance. It appears that calculating RO compliance might depend on credit for time abroad working for a Canadian business. THIS CAN BE TRICKY. A lot more tricky than many PRs realize. So I offer some more in-depth observations about this . . . which again, you can SKIP if you are not worried about the RO compliance determination.

(Note, however, it is quite likely the application has been referred to the local office BECAUSE IRCC perceives a RO compliance issue . . . maybe a copy of your "contract" will resolve that, but that depends on who the employer is and the actual terms of the contract and the actual circumstances attendant the employment abroad. If you have concerns about RO compliance better to see a LAWYER, but there is nonetheless extensive discussion about this issue in the forum.)





SOME PROCEDURAL OBSERVATIONS:

The timeline is at best a GUESS, which is to say no one can reliably estimate how much longer IRCC will take to process the PRC application.

Most (but not all) referrals to a local office involve further investigation of the PR's compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. How this goes varies. PRs may be sent a Residency Questionnaire, requesting further information and documentation related to showing the PR's presence in Canada or entitlement to credit pursuant to one of the exceptions for time abroad, which might or might not be followed by the PR being scheduled for an Residency Determination INTERVIEW. Obviously these can result in a fairly long time line (several weeks to months more).

There is also the possibility that the local office is able to review the information and be satisfied the PR is in compliance with the RO without requesting additional information or documentation, without an in-person interview. (Resulting in some delay but not nearly so long as when the PR is sent a Questionnaire and scheduled for an Interview.)

In either case, when the local office makes a positive determination as to RO compliance (assuming the referral is about RO compliance), the file is referred back to the CPC in Sydney, and IRCC proceeds to issue a new card and arrange delivery of the new PRC (delivery to be by mail or sent back to the local office for delivery in-person).

But how long all this takes varies and can vary considerably. No one here can reliably predict how long it will take.

Then there is the possibility, DEPENDING on the facts of course, that there is a NEGATIVE decision as to RO compliance.

As I initially noted, if you are confident there is NO serious risk of a negative decision as to RO compliance, you can SKIP what follows. If you have some concern, BETTER to SEE A LAWYER, but otherwise I can offer some further in-depth information . . .


IF there is a Negative Determination as to RO Compliance:

If the local office makes a negative determination, as to RO compliance, that will typically result in the issuance of a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility. This would typically be a decision made at the time of an in-person interview, and the Report would be issued directly to the PR. Sometimes the decision is made after the interview, and again if it is a negative decision that will result in the issuance of the 44(1) Report. I am not clear about the precise procedures in this latter event since details about this are typically not recounted in the published IAD decisions. In any event, the Report is usually soon (but not always soon) followed by the issuance of a Departure or Removal Order.

The Removal Order is NOT immediately enforceable. The PR has at least 30 days in which to make an appeal. The PR retains status pending the appeal. NOTE, however, that as of the day the 44(1) Report is issued the PR NO LONGER gets any additional credit toward RO compliance (unless eventually the PR wins the appeal). Despite this, it is ALWAYS better for PRs to remain in Canada as much as possible pending the appeal; even though those days do not count toward RO compliance they can count as a positive factor in the H&C analysis and thus help the PR keep status despite being found to have breached the RO.



OBSERVATIONS ABOUT THE WORKING-ABROAD CREDIT:

As I have noted, based on the sketchy information you provide it is difficult to discern if there are reasons to be concerned about a possible negative determination as to Residency Obligation compliance. It appears that calculating RO compliance might depend on credit for time abroad working for a Canadian business. THIS CAN BE TRICKY. A lot more tricky than many PRs realize.

It is a bit of an over-generalization, but the rules governing credit for time working abroad tend to be so narrowly interpreted and strictly applied that it often seems that if the work abroad will count then the PR most likely has at least 730 days presence in Canada during the relevant five years (and thus does not need the credit) . . . or, conversely, if the PR actually needs the credit to be in compliance, it is NOT likely the the credit will be allowed. Again, this is overstating it by a fair bit, but serves to highlight how tricky qualifying for this credit can be.

IF there is some chance you might have cause to be concerned about getting this credit (that is, if you NEED the credit AND it is not quite certain you qualify for the credit . . . again, I cannot discern from what you have so far reported if there is cause to be concerned or not) . . . you might consider either (1) CONSULTING with a COMPETENT, LICENSED LAWYER (best approach), OR at least (2) reviewing available information about this credit and evaluating your situation.

As for the latter, there is quite a bit of discussion about this in several posts above. And, while I have not yet had time to consolidate and outline the criteria actually applied in cases about this credit, I am working on doing so and have otherwise addressed some of the more salient issues in the following topic:

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/working-abroad-ro-credit-including-business-trips-an-update.607559/

In that topic in particular, in the post I quote below (which includes a link to the post itself), I have cited and linked scores of official sources of information about this issue, including official accounts of many actual cases, and also included links to several other topics here where this issue is discussed.



(Note: a number of links in that topic do not properly work because I failed to delete angle brackets . . . the urls can be copied and pasted to go to the referenced source . . . and nearly all of those improperly linked are otherwise properly linked in other posts in that topic.)
Thank you for your speedy and detailed response. Faxing my expat contract was the direction resulted from the meeting my company’s HR and our immigration lawyer therefore I hope they are right.

I guess in the meantime I will just have to get used to flying to Buffalo. Thanks again.
 

nioero

Full Member
Feb 18, 2019
25
4
Hi guys,

just want to share my experience and wondering what are my odds of getting the card soon.

Below is my timeline:

  1. We received your application for a permanent resident card on November 26, 2018.
  2. We sent you correspondence acknowledging receipt of your application(s) on January 8, 2019.
  3. We started processing your application on January 8, 2019.
Between, 2013 and 2016, I was under an expat assignment with my current employer and my payroll was done in Canada during the period. Shame on me that I did not provide my contract and T4 along with the application.

About 2 weeks ago, just before my card expired, I found out that my application was transferred to Hamilton. I subsequently fax the supporting document (original expat contract, current employee letter and T4s fro 2013 to 2016) to the local office. I have to travel to the US frequently for business purpose and I basically have to fly out of Toronto and on the way back, I fly to Buffalo and take a rental car to come home.

My online status has not changed since the file was transferred. Do you think the local office will contact me in the near future? Thanks!
Hey guys, I am still waiting for a response from the local office. However, I have done multiple trips to the US and coming back to Canada has not been an issue yet.

I have an upcoming trip to Japan next month so my choice of return destination could be either Buffalo NY or Detroit. What I noticed is that some of the flights back would connect through Toronto, where my home is. I have a valid US VISA and

am I right that I can transit through Canada without a transit visa?
Do you think that once I am in Toronto, can I try to go through the custom to return to Canada or is it impossible?

Thank you for your response!
 

nioero

Full Member
Feb 18, 2019
25
4
So I got a letter on April 15th, stating that I am complied with RO requirement, and I will receive the card in 60 days. Called IRCC yesterday to ask for progress and was told that I will be contacted to pick up the PR card. Any experience on how long it would take to get PR card at this stage? thanks!
 

k.h.p.

VIP Member
Mar 1, 2019
7,022
1,488
Canada
So I got a letter on April 15th, stating that I am complied with RO requirement, and I will receive the card in 60 days. Called IRCC yesterday to ask for progress and was told that I will be contacted to pick up the PR card. Any experience on how long it would take to get PR card at this stage? thanks!
Based on your letter said, before June 15th.
 

Harryhere101

Star Member
Sep 19, 2019
129
4
So I got a letter on April 15th, stating that I am complied with RO requirement, and I will receive the card in 60 days. Called IRCC yesterday to ask for progress and was told that I will be contacted to pick up the PR card. Any experience on how long it would take to get PR card at this stage? thanks!
Can you provide a brief timeline of your case? And city of local office? Thanks
 

Harryhere101

Star Member
Sep 19, 2019
129
4
An update on my kids file.
Application recieved: July 19 2019
Acknowledge: Same day
Passport photocopies requested by CIC Sydney: September 18 2019
Sent to CIC Sydney: October 15 2019
Recieved by CIC Sydney: October 21 2019
Called CIC today for an update and was told the worse news ever... my kids file has been sent to a local office!
Can anyone tell how long it will on average take?
Can I apply for urgent request while secondary review for them?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,314
1,459
An update on my kids file.
Application recieved: July 19 2019
Acknowledge: Same day
Passport photocopies requested by CIC Sydney: September 18 2019
Sent to CIC Sydney: October 15 2019
Recieved by CIC Sydney: October 21 2019
Called CIC today for an update and was told the worse news ever... my kids file has been sent to a local office!
Can anyone tell how long it will on average take?
Can I apply for urgent request while secondary review for them?
Oh, I have also been transferred to local.
App recieved July 19 2019
Processing started same day
Asked for passport pages photocopies by CIC Sydney September 18 2019
Sent those by October 18 2018
Called agents yesterday and found out I have been transferred to local office.
This is so frustrating! I have travel plans for June 2020 but cant even start booking.
NOTE: it can be difficult to discern whether someone has real issues, real cause for concern, versus overthinking things and being overly stressed despite no real problems. I have no idea which side of that fence you are grazing.

As I have addressed elsewhere, a referral for Secondary Review and a referral to the local office are NOT the same thing.

For many PRs the distinction may not seem important. And, indeed, what really matters is not whether the application has been referred to SR or the local office, BUT WHY . . . WHAT is the ISSUE? WHAT is the CONCERN? WHAT might IRCC be INVESTIGATING?

Note, TIMELINE issues are about convenience. How long it will take is one thing. OUTCOME issues are another. OUTCOME issues are about the potential for losing PR status. BIG, BIG DIFFERENCE.

But yes, sure, for many PRs all of this gets tangled. How and why matters.

For example, the TIMELINE issue tends to matter more for PRs who are going abroad (or are already abroad). A PR in Canada does NOT need a valid PR card. And not having a valid PR card should not even cause much inconvenience once the PR has a SIN, drivers license, and provincial health care coverage.

So let's be clear what TIMELINE concerns are typically about: it is NOT so much about how long it takes IRCC to process a PR card application, but much more about a PR being able to travel back to Canada from abroad.

Moreover, after all, a PR abroad can apply for and obtain a PR Travel Document, so to facilitate a trip to Canada, and while this is inconvenient and in some places in the world it can be more inconvenient, for a PR who is well-settled PERMANENTLY in Canada, with NO PR RO compliance issues, it should not be a problem, not a serious problem anyway.

Which is to recognize that if there is a real question, a real concern, it is NOT about the timeline, NOT about the procedure, but about what may be causing a substantive problem . . . is there a PR Residency Obligation compliance issue? A possible misrepresentation (including in past transactions with IRCC/CIC/CBSA) concern? Some other admissibility issue?

So first the children: as long as they are currently IN Canada, in compliance with the PR RO, and as long as the information in their applications is accurate, it should NOT MATTER how long IRCC takes to process their PR card applications. NO need to be stressed. Watch for notices from IRCC. Respond to notices appropriately.

As for your personal PR card application: likewise, as long as YOU are currently in Canada, in compliance with the PR RO, and as long as the information in your application is accurate, it should NOT MATTER how long IRCC takes to process your PR card application.

With caveats. Of course. Such as . . .

You have indicated you "have travel plans for June 2020 but . . . " As long as you are IN Canada in the meantime, and there is no cause for IRCC to apprehend you have not settled in Canada PERMANENTLY, and you meet the PR RO, a referral to the local office should NOT be worrying. Local office processing tends to go faster than Secondary Review. In the meantime there is plenty of time to wait to see how this goes and if the PRC application is still pending come March or April (noting, however, it is more likely processing will be completed by then UNLESS the local office processing then leads to a referral for Secondary Review, such as if IRCC suspects misrepresentation or that you are abroad, not IN Canada), and if you have definite travel plans, make a request to expedite your application then.

For both you and your children, the key factor is being actually present IN Canada now.

I have not seen much about independent children applying for new PR cards, so I am not familiar with the issues they might encounter. But if they are IN Canada now to STAY and were in compliance with the RO when their applications were made, whatever bumps there are in the process, and however long it takes, there should NOT be any serious problems. Of course they must still follow through with the process, watch for notices and respond appropriately.

For you another important factor is whether or not it APPEARS you have fully settled IN Canada PERMANENTLY. Actually having, in fact, PERMANENTLY settled in Canada is important, for sure, but how it appears can be important as well.

OTHERWISE . . . if you go back a couple pages in this particular topic, about PR card applications referred to the local office, and take the time to read the posts (do the homework), there is a lot of information about this procedure. Take the time to read this stuff. And if you still have questions or concerns, try to ask questions more specific to your situation, about your circumstances.
 

Harryhere101

Star Member
Sep 19, 2019
129
4
NOTE: it can be difficult to discern whether someone has real issues, real cause for concern, versus overthinking things and being overly stressed despite no real problems. I have no idea which side of that fence you are grazing.

As I have addressed elsewhere, a referral for Secondary Review and a referral to the local office are NOT the same thing.

For many PRs the distinction may not seem important. And, indeed, what really matters is not whether the application has been referred to SR or the local office, BUT WHY . . . WHAT is the ISSUE? WHAT is the CONCERN? WHAT might IRCC be INVESTIGATING?

Note, TIMELINE issues are about convenience. How long it will take is one thing. OUTCOME issues are another. OUTCOME issues are about the potential for losing PR status. BIG, BIG DIFFERENCE.

But yes, sure, for many PRs all of this gets tangled. How and why matters.

For example, the TIMELINE issue tends to matter more for PRs who are going abroad (or are already abroad). A PR in Canada does NOT need a valid PR card. And not having a valid PR card should not even cause much inconvenience once the PR has a SIN, drivers license, and provincial health care coverage.

So let's be clear what TIMELINE concerns are typically about: it is NOT so much about how long it takes IRCC to process a PR card application, but much more about a PR being able to travel back to Canada from abroad.

Moreover, after all, a PR abroad can apply for and obtain a PR Travel Document, so to facilitate a trip to Canada, and while this is inconvenient and in some places in the world it can be more inconvenient, for a PR who is well-settled PERMANENTLY in Canada, with NO PR RO compliance issues, it should not be a problem, not a serious problem anyway.

Which is to recognize that if there is a real question, a real concern, it is NOT about the timeline, NOT about the procedure, but about what may be causing a substantive problem . . . is there a PR Residency Obligation compliance issue? A possible misrepresentation (including in past transactions with IRCC/CIC/CBSA) concern? Some other admissibility issue?

So first the children: as long as they are currently IN Canada, in compliance with the PR RO, and as long as the information in their applications is accurate, it should NOT MATTER how long IRCC takes to process their PR card applications. NO need to be stressed. Watch for notices from IRCC. Respond to notices appropriately.

As for your personal PR card application: likewise, as long as YOU are currently in Canada, in compliance with the PR RO, and as long as the information in your application is accurate, it should NOT MATTER how long IRCC takes to process your PR card application.

With caveats. Of course. Such as . . .

You have indicated you "have travel plans for June 2020 but . . . " As long as you are IN Canada in the meantime, and there is no cause for IRCC to apprehend you have not settled in Canada PERMANENTLY, and you meet the PR RO, a referral to the local office should NOT be worrying. Local office processing tends to go faster than Secondary Review. In the meantime there is plenty of time to wait to see how this goes and if the PRC application is still pending come March or April (noting, however, it is more likely processing will be completed by then UNLESS the local office processing then leads to a referral for Secondary Review, such as if IRCC suspects misrepresentation or that you are abroad, not IN Canada), and if you have definite travel plans, make a request to expedite your application then.

For both you and your children, the key factor is being actually present IN Canada now.

I have not seen much about independent children applying for new PR cards, so I am not familiar with the issues they might encounter. But if they are IN Canada now to STAY and were in compliance with the RO when their applications were made, whatever bumps there are in the process, and however long it takes, there should NOT be any serious problems. Of course they must still follow through with the process, watch for notices and respond appropriately.

For you another important factor is whether or not it APPEARS you have fully settled IN Canada PERMANENTLY. Actually having, in fact, PERMANENTLY settled in Canada is important, for sure, but how it appears can be important as well.

OTHERWISE . . . if you go back a couple pages in this particular topic, about PR card applications referred to the local office, and take the time to read the posts (do the homework), there is a lot of information about this procedure. Take the time to read this stuff. And if you still have questions or concerns, try to ask questions more specific to your situation, about your circumstances.
Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. It has made me aware of many points, including SR is different than local office. Will be waiting for any further notices and hope his goes by soon! Once again, thanks a lot
 
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Nassrat

Member
Sep 19, 2019
19
1
I have similar issue. I am waiting for 3 months now with no request from the local office. My local office is Montreal
 

Nassrat

Member
Sep 19, 2019
19
1
In 3 days, it will be 5 months since they acknowledged receiving my form. It is now almost 3 monts in Montreal local office. All communication tells they are processing. I have no clue what's the max period. I appreciate all your suggestions
 

canvis2006

Champion Member
Dec 27, 2009
1,951
212
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Paris, France
NOC Code......
FC4 - PGP
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
May 2009
Doc's Request.
March 2012
File Transfer...
Jan. 2013
Med's Request
May 2013
Passport Req..
July 2013
VISA ISSUED...
August 2013
LANDED..........
Sept 2013
CIC Hamilton takes around 10-months processing time for PR Renewal investigations........just found this out via MP's office.
Anyone with RO not met that got sent there?