PR card renewal now 299 days..

[amrelroby]

I am a Canadian citizen. But, as an immigrant, most of my family is abroad. Including my daughter and granddaughter. I cannot travel to visit them now either. Not because I do not have proper travel documents; I have the proper documents. But because there is a real crisis and travel is highly restricted.

I might say "Think about it." But I am not here telling anyone what to do. (But sure, being old and in the way, I tend to bristle a bit when someone thinks they are entitled to tell me what to do when they aren't.)

I make no effort to defend the government. My effort is to explain what is happening as best I can discern. I agree with some criticisms. I disagree with the gratuitous whining. But mostly I try to focus on what is happening and illuminate as best we can where things are headed.

To be clear, a passport is a "travel document." In contrast, the PR card is merely a status card. There is no comparison, despite many who fail to grasp the differences.

In the meantime access to obtaining a PR Travel Document is difficult for the same reason that access to a new PR card is difficult.

Sure, but for the impact of the Covid-19 crisis, using a PR TD to travel back to Canada can be very inconvenient for SOME (for most, it really is not), but outside the bubble of narcissism, personal convenience no where near approaches what is "essential" or "necessary."

Note, too, that unlike Canadian citizens, the Canadian Charter of Rights does not protect a PR's international mobility. This is just how it is. Some may believe it should be otherwise. But it is what it is. Processing PR cards is not an essential priority UNLESS the PR petitions for urgent processing based on legitimate grounds (but unfortunately, these applications appear to be bogged down by scores of requests by those whose "urgent" need is, so to say, not especially urgent).






These are related. Not all complaints are created equal. Not all "urgent" needs are created equal.

I did not and do not dismiss all the concerns.

Canada is currently restricting the vast majority of international travel . . . with exceptions for travel that is essential and non-discretionary.

We have family on the other side of town who we were isolated from for months (yeah, we know many were not following the lockdown guidelines . . . pox to them . . . we have). With some issues. And as an immigrant, most of my family is abroad, and I continue to be isolated from them . . . even the ones who are not all that far away but on the U.S. side of the border.

Leading to . . .



And lots and lots and lots of issues. Some big ones. Some really big ones. Like life and death itself.

Business people I know are not at all likely to recover from this. Others are out of work and struggling badly due to this. People I know who suffer from certain disadvantages are suffering badly from this. It is an unmitigated disaster. A crisis. And oh yeah, many thousands have DIED, and many more will die.

The government is scrambling to meet the most pressing needs. I do not say this to defend them. I say this to observe the obvious: it's a mess out there, still getting messier by the day. Anyone expecting a reallocation of government resources to PR card application processing anytime soon is not dealing with the reality. And those demanding action soon, at the expense of other government services, deserve as much criticism as anyone.

For someone who is not defending the government/system, you sure make a lot of effort. First, thanks for labeling concerned immigration who are worried about the unreasonable increase in PR card processing time as narcissists.
I guess what you mean is that we should just shut up and take it, like some kind of low-class residents of Canada since, according to you, the Canadian Charter of Rights does not protect a PR's international mobility!

Canada is doing much better than in other countries, and most provinces are reopening. If most provinces managed to allow gyms, spas, and shopping malls to open, allowing CIC employees to go back to office or work remotely is not an impossible task.

Unless you are a person of authority in the government, who can show me how it is difficult/impossible for CIC to allocate some resources to PR card processing, or why it is impossible to increase productivity by allowing the employee to work remotely like other government services, I do not care about your blind defense of the system.

The real reason for this situation is simple; PR holders are just not important enough. They can not vote, and they mostly avoid making problems with CIC.

 

[automaton82]

Why can't your spouse fly out of Canada without PR card? It is not required to exit Canada. As for returning at a land border, one can show their landing papers.

They are from South Korea. They can fly there, but they can't return to see my child and I without a PR card. Moreover if they take our child (who is dual) then our child can fly back to Canada with the Canadian passport, but my spouse can't. How does that make sense?

As for the land border -- are you seriously suggested they fly into the US, with all the complications associated with it, then have me go and pick them up at a land border just because our government can't issue a card within 1 year?

You're also assuming I live close to a land border to the US. What if I don't?

The situation is a serious violation of the right to travel. In the last 5 years they've spent a total of ~20 days out of Canada. They are clearly Canadian, clearly a PR. Yet they are denied the basic right to leave and come back on an airplane because our government is absolute trash.

 

[canuck78]

They are from South Korea. They can fly there, but they can't return to see my child and I without a PR card. Moreover if they take our child (who is dual) then our child can fly back to Canada with the Canadian passport, but my spouse can't. How does that make sense?

As for the land border -- are you seriously suggested they fly into the US, with all the complications associated with it, then have me go and pick them up at a land border just because our government can't issue a card within 1 year?

You're also assuming I live close to a land border to the US. What if I don't?

The situation is a serious violation of the right to travel. In the last 5 years they've spent a total of ~20 days out of Canada. They are clearly Canadian, clearly a PR. Yet they are denied the basic right to leave and come back on an airplane because our government is absolute trash.

During a pandemic there are choices that have to be made. You are putting your need to travel above the safety of the workers processing PR cards. Given that Canada is advising no international travel it is understandable that processing PR cards were shut down especially during lockdown. Getting a PR card is not considered essential work. Now that lockdown is over processing has started again and wait times should decrease pretty rapidly. Immigration is not something that can easily be shifted to remote work for privacy reasons. There are thousands of
people complaining that Canada has not helped them leave a country and so if you want to travel you have to take the chance that you may be stuck abroad for months.

 

[dpenabill]

During a pandemic there are choices that have to be made. . . . Given that Canada is advising no international travel it is understandable that processing PR cards were shut down especially during lockdown.

As usual, someone else is able to express more succinctly what I struggle to describe or explain in a cascade of words.

That said, as I understand it, the advisory against international travel is stronger than a mere advisory. My understanding is that Canada still mandates travel be limited to that which is essential and non-discretionary, albeit in practice this may be largely subject to self-enforcement. It is also easily subject to abuse (as illustrated by the tourists from California in Banff, who apparently claimed to be traveling to Alaska when crossing the border, including a few who, according to some reports, were mocking the gullibility of Canadian officials).

. . . according to you, the Canadian Charter of Rights does not protect a PR's international mobility!

The situation is a serious violation of the right to travel. . . . they are denied the basic right to leave and come back . . .

Again: "Unlike it does for Canadian citizens, the Canadian Charter of Rights does NOT protect a PR's international mobility."

This is NOT according to me. I am NOT an authority and I do not pretend to be one. I do not footnote or reference every source (my posts go long enough as is), especially when referring to what should be commonly known, but I do make a concerted effort to base statements like this on reliable sources.

This is what is in the Canadian Charter of Rights. Perhaps as an immigrant I cherish and find such things more important than some, but a basic understanding of what is in the Charter seems, to me, to be among those things to be learned, sooner rather than later, about this country which millions of us have chosen to be our home rather than the country of our birth and where, often, many if not most members of our family still are.

For the Charter of Rights see https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/page-15.html

For "Mobility Rights" in particular, see Charter Section 6. It is in Section 6.(1) that specifically prescribes "Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada." Section 6.(2) prescribes the mobility rights of "every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada," which is subject to limitations described in Section 6.(3). The latter does NOT include, among "basic rights," a PR's right to come back to Canada. (PRs do have a statutory entitlement, typically referred to as a privilege in Canadian law, to enter Canada; but privileges are not considered to be a "right" let alone a "basic right.")


That said, the government is dealing with a real crisis. This is most likely the biggest crisis of my lifetime (since WW II ended a bit before I was born). There are TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS in place. In particular, again, for the time being, for ALL Canadians, thus including Canadian citizens as well as Canadian PRs, there are travel restrictions limiting international (and until recently somewhat similarly domestic travel) to that which is essential and non-discretionary. Even basic rights are subject to government regulation (see Section 1 in the Charter).

Otherwise, again, the lack of a PR card does NOT mean a PR is unable to travel anywhere at all in the world. Lacking a PR card has NO impact on travel to or between other countries at all. NONE.

The lack of a PR card makes travel to Canada from abroad less convenient, but the amount of that inconvenience is relatively small EXCEPT for SOME PRs, and that is actually a rather small percentage of PRs (more re this below).

Leading to . . .

They can fly there, but they can't return to see my child and I without a PR card.

Not at the moment, perhaps, because there are travel restrictions due to the Covid-19 crisis.

Other than the ongoing restrictions on travel due to the Covid-19 crisis . . .

Notwithstanding the drumbeat of claims to the contrary, Canadians abroad, including Canadian PRs as well as Canadian citizens, can obtain travel documents for the purpose of boarding flights destined to Canada if they lack a Canadian passport (if a Canadian citizen) or they lack the status card issued to Canadian PRs.

Since most PRs traveling abroad are in the U.S., MOST can simply travel to the border where all they need to do is establish their identity and status, with proof of identity usually sufficient to also establish their Canadian PR status. A very high percentage of PRs otherwise can nonetheless travel to the U.S. and similarly travel to the border and enter Canada. While an expired PR card or CoPR makes the process of establishing PR status easier, even these are NOT necessary so long as the PR can establish his or her identity.

Among the minority of PRs abroad other than those who can cross at the U.S. land border, at times other than currently during this crisis, the process for obtaining a PR Travel Document is generally NOT onerous (contrary to vociferous but exaggerated claims otherwise). The exceptions are few and mostly predictable. Processing times for PR TDs are typically no more than a few days, maybe a week or two. UNLESS . . . too many various factors to wander down this tangent here, but problems getting a PR TD are (with some exceptions) largely limited to some rather obvious factors, ranging from the longer the absence abroad the bigger the risks, to PRs who are not readily recognized as having settled and residing PERMANENTLY in Canada.

In any event, ONLY a small percentage of PRs abroad will, ordinarily, encounter much of a delay let alone problems obtaining a PR TD . . . and the vast majority of those few who might encounter such difficulty, should be able to easily predict this and why.

The latter leads back to the observation about making choices. This in turn leads to . . .

First, thanks for labeling concerned immigration who are worried about the unreasonable increase in PR card processing time as narcissists.

I made NO mention of those who are "worried" about PR card processing in any respect, let alone labeling them in anyway. So your sarcasm and mis-characterization of what I have posted is clearly a deliberate attempt to mislead.

Those I have referred to as narcissists include:

-- some (not all) of the "more narcissistic citizens" in that S*hole country to our south​

-- "self-centered narcissists" who are pushing to increase the risk of spreading Covid-19​

-- those who have made requests for urgent processing based on grounds which are essentially "my-convenience-is-an-urgent-necessity" which is making it more burdensome and time consuming for the government to process urgent requests from those who genuinely have urgent needs, and, finally​

-- those in the "bubble of narcissism" who consider their personal convenience to be equivalent to what is "essential" or "necessary"​

In contrast I clearly stated "I did not and do not dismiss all the concerns."

The main reason I have and continue to address this topic is to counter the misleading mis-characterizations and disinformation. Whether a person agrees with them, or not, the government has its reasons for prioritizing its functions during this crisis. Again, I am not defending the reasoning. I am describing what it is and what it is rooted in.

As you stated:

For some reason they do not care about renewing PR cards . . .

YEP. And I have made an effort to better illuminate the reasons. Again, not to defend the government, but to clarify and explain what is happening, at least for those who are genuinely interested in understanding what is happening. A better understanding of what is actually at play tends to help individuals better evaluate how the situation affects them, so in turn they can better plan and navigate their own way forward.

This includes making an effort to put the situation into context. Revisiting, for example, the assertion initially made by @automaton82 that the lengthy PR card processing times are "violating" the "constitutional right" of PRs to travel abroad. This is absolutely NOT true. In response I clarified that the Charter of Rights distinguishes the mobility rights of citizens and PRs. Only citizens have a "constitutional" right to return to Canada from abroad. NOT PRs. And in response to this you, @amrelroby, cursorily dismissed it as "according" to me. Which is NOT true. And it is misleading.

Frankly, it seems deliberately so. The Charter of Rights is hardly obscure or difficult to understand.

Blatantly misleading false propositions smell like trolling. At the least they warrant approaching their author with more than a little skepticism. Users of a forum like this should be aware when less-than-credible claims are being pushed.

 

[VeryCommonSense]

I think the solution is to extend the validity of the expired PR cards by 365 days.

This would allow to escape the false dichotomy of CIC employees' health vs convenience of PR holders. There is no reason to compromise any of these. After all, the card expiration has nothing to do with maintaining the PR status.

 

[Inpasarable]

The lack of a PR card makes travel to Canada from abroad less convenient, but the amount of that inconvenience is relatively small EXCEPT for SOME PRs, and that is actually a rather small percentage of PRs (more re this below).

It's not less convenient. It's unpredictable, given the circumstances. And I don't see how they will be able to work through the huge backlog that keeps piling up, unless they start to find ways to process the applications somehow.
I have a life here, a job. But I also have a family back in my country of origin. If a family emergency happens while my PR card's renewal taking 299 day to process, what are my options exactly? Leave Canada, and hope that I can apply for PRTD from outside and not have any issues and get it within an adequate timeframe.. This is a worst type of nightmare an immigrant can imagine, and I pray to never live through it.

 

[steaky]

It's not less convenient. It's unpredictable, given the circumstances. And I don't see how they will be able to work through the huge backlog that keeps piling up, unless they start to find ways to process the applications somehow.
I have a life here, a job. But I also have a family back in my country of origin. If a family emergency happens while my PR card's renewal taking 299 day to process, what are my options exactly? Leave Canada, and hope that I can apply for PRTD from outside and not have any issues and get it within an adequate timeframe.. This is a worst type of nightmare an immigrant can imagine, and I pray to never live through it.

The other option is to go through a land border which itself has its complications... If you don't live near border, you can take domestic flight to your destination city...

 

[Kikilala]

The other option is to go through a land border which itself has its complications... If you don't live near border, you can take domestic flight to your destination city...

First, you need to enter US, but not everyone has US visa

I’m from a country that visitors only need eta to come to Canada. All they have to do is apply before the flight then can stay in Canada for 6 months, even better, it’s multiple entries for 5 years! I don’t understand why the government/IRCC make a PR with expired PR card so difficult to come back home? I feel like my status here is even lower than a visitor!

 

[dpenabill]

I realize that I am beating the drum rather persistently. Let's be clear why. Many of the posts here, and in other similar topics, are painting a picture which is grossly misleading. The vast, vast majority of PRs have no reason to worry that IRCC is broken, inept, or otherwise going to abandon or disregard them. Current processing delays are TEMPORARY. The reason why is obvious. Sure, some disagree with the reasoning, BUT that is different from suggestions that the system will not work.

PRs can rely on IRCC to mostly do what its information says it is doing.

As I stated in my first post in this topic: "The IRCC information online still clearly states that it cannot process applications normally. And describes which applications are prioritized." And those prioritized do NOT include ordinary PR card renewal applications. This information is readily accessible at the IRCC website.

As I have repeatedly noted, not all complaints are created equal. Those which are painting a misleading picture of how things work at IRCC need to be countered. People who come to this forum should be able to find and read genuine and accurate information about how things work. This is important. Clear and accurate reporting about how things work enables PRs to better understand the situation they are in, better grasp and make decisions about their options, and thus better able to navigate their way forward.

Right now, ALL PRs should be AVOIDING travel abroad unless it is essential and non-discretionary. PRs and others coming to this site are entitled to be aware of this and to make choices accordingly.

As things gradually return to normal (recognizing there will be a new normal following this crisis), PRs can reasonably anticipate that even non-essential services, like PR card application processing, will resume and gradually, more slowly than many will like, get back to more routine processing time frames (probably not the fast turn around there was for a year or so prior to this crisis . . . probably more in the range of historical averages, perhaps 3 to 5 months).

It's not less convenient. It's unpredictable, given the circumstances.

Obviously having to apply for and obtain a PR TD is, at the very least, less convenient than having a valid PR card.

I'm confident you meant to say that it is more difficult rather than less convenient, or to say it is not only less convenient but something more onerous. Particularly given your qualifier that obtaining a PR TD is "unpredictable."

HOWEVER, outside the current situation (during which travel restrictions are in place), it is simply NOT true that the process for obtaining a PR TD is unpredictable or particularly onerous, at least not for most PRs. It is NOT true in particular for PRs who qualify for a new PR card and who are unlikely to encounter non-routine processing when they do. With perhaps a SMALL number of isolated exceptions. Claims to the contrary are overblown or outright unfounded.

Of course at this moment, absent a compelling need, yeah it may be difficult . . . again, there are REAL TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS in place. The rule of thumb for now is DO NOT PLAN TO TRAVEL ABROAD.

But outside the current situation, the process for obtaining a PR TD is routine and ordinarily relatively quick. Again, with EXCEPTIONS.

As I previously observed, the exceptions are fairly predictable. Most of these are actually easily predictable. There is an extensive accounting of these scenarios throughout posts in this forum going back many, many years.

-- PRs living abroad or staying abroad for extended periods of time: duh, of course there is going to be more thorough scrutiny of their status and RO compliance.​

-- PRs who have been in Canada less than 1000 or so days within the preceding five years, or at least more so for those in Canada less than 915 days within the preceding five years (that is, PRs who have been abroad more than in Canada), again duh, there is a RISK the level of scrutiny and scope of inquiry will of course be elevated and take longer.​

This is NOT a new discussion. PRs whose PR card applications have been referred for Secondary Review have long been encountering processing longer than 299 days. Many encounter a full year of processing before they are issued a new PR card. These are not random cases. They are not arbitrarily or capriciously dragged into the longer process for no reason. Many may disagree with the reason. Many vociferously disagree with how long SR takes. But the risk factors are easy to see. And how the process works is well known. Individuals can make choices in their personal lives accordingly.

And sure, any PR whose circumstances are such that IRCC is not likely to approve and issue a new PR card almost immediately upon opening and processing the application (most PR card applications are approved and a new card issued within days or a couple weeks at most of AOR) is also a PR whose circumstances will elevate the risk of non-routine processing and delays if and when they apply for a PR TD from abroad. This is a rather small percentage of PRs. And, in particular, a very, very small percentage of PRs who have been settled and residing PERMANENTLY in Canada for at least three years.

One participant in this discussion referred to IRCC "denying travel for 1 year every 5 years." That is NOT how the process has worked. No where near it. This year is an anomaly. There is a crisis. And apart from the fact that it is NOT true the delays in processing a PR card constitute "denying travel," even if the process ends up delayed a full year, this year, this is not a situation which will recur with any regularity.

But the reason I mention this statement by a participant here, in particular, is that PRs are not expected to be applying for new PR cards every five years. And the vast, vast majority of PRs do not. Historically 75% of immigrants become Canadian citizens. It has varied from 60 percent to the mid-80s over the years.

Of course there are various reasons why some PRs do not become citizens (I have had friends who remained PRs for decades). But even among this minority, the overwhelming majority of these PRs are in situations for which the prospects of a problem-free PR TD application, or conversely a problem-infected application, is rather predictable:

-- criminality prohibitions precluding citizenship; and yeah, these PRs have an elevated risk of problems if they go abroad without a valid PR card​

-- PRs primarily living or working abroad, or otherwise likely to trigger RO compliance concerns; and yeah, these PRs likewise have an elevated risk of problems if they are abroad without a valid PR card​

-- PRs who are well settled and living PERMANENTLY in Canada, and who have been for many years, but for personal reasons (such as not wanting to give up home country citizenship if that applies to them) have chosen to remain a PR rather than become a citizen; NO, these PRs have a very, very low risk that a PR TD application will encounter significant let alone serious problems or delay UNLESS they have been abroad for a particularly lengthy period recently​

It is simply NOT fair or accurate to paint a picture of PR card processing, or PR TD application processing, which distorts how things work for MOST PRs. This is not about the government's image. It is about this forum providing an accurate picture of how things work (as best we can) and how they are likely to work going forward, so that those who come here can use the information to help them make better decisions for themselves.

It has been suggested my perspective is heartless. I have been making a concerted effort to provide accurate and informative commentary with the hope I am helping others make good decisions for themselves. That's the best I can do. That's what I try to do.

 

[amrelroby]

The main reason I have and continue to address this topic is to counter the misleading mis-characterizations and disinformation. Whether a person agrees with them, or not, the government has its reasons for prioritizing its functions during this crisis. Again, I am not defending the reasoning. I am describing what it is and what it is rooted in.

As you stated:


YEP. And I have made an effort to better illuminate the reasons. Again, not to defend the government, but to clarify and explain what is happening, at least for those who are genuinely interested in understanding what is happening. A better understanding of what is actually at play tends to help individuals better evaluate how the situation affects them, so in turn they can better plan and navigate their own way forward.

This includes making an effort to put the situation into context. Revisiting, for example, the assertion initially made by @automaton82 that the lengthy PR card processing times are "violating" the "constitutional right" of PRs to travel abroad. This is absolutely NOT true. In response I clarified that the Charter of Rights distinguishes the mobility rights of citizens and PRs. Only citizens have a "constitutional" right to return to Canada from abroad. NOT PRs. And in response to this you, @amrelroby, cursorily dismissed it as "according" to me. Which is NOT true. And it is misleading.

Frankly, it seems deliberately so. The Charter of Rights is hardly obscure or difficult to understand.

Blatantly misleading false propositions smell like trolling. At the least they warrant approaching their author with more than a little skepticism. Users of a forum like this should be aware when less-than-credible claims are being pushed.

First, I do not know why "according to you" is offense since you already mentioned that you are not an authority on the subject.
Second, what trolling we do? What misinformation are we spreading?
To be honest I think all these accusations are distracting the people from the main issue.
This thread and all the discussion in it is about the huge jump in processing times and if they are justified.

I am not a lawyer but I know that freedom of expression is guaranteed in Canada, and we have a right to criticize any government official/organization and ask for an explanation to their policies.
At least this what I think the majority of people, either citizens or immigrants expect in this country.

It is simply NOT fair or accurate to paint a picture of PR card processing, or PR TD application processing, which distorts how things work for MOST PRs. This is not about the government's image. It is about this forum providing an accurate picture of how things work (as best we can) and how they are likely to work going forward, so that those who come here can use the information to help them make better decisions for themselves.

It has been suggested my perspective is heartless. I have been making a concerted effort to provide accurate and informative commentary with the hope I am helping others make good decisions for themselves. That's the best I can do. That's what I try to do.

For someone who claims that he is not defending the system, you sure write a very lengthy defense of the system.
You do not seem to be affected by this issue and as many noted seems to have no sympathy for people who are affected by it.
So, I would like to talk mainly to the people affected by this and summarize this issue and what we can do about it.

IRRC does not explain why after four months of this crisis, they can not adapt and improve processing times either by allowing remote work or providing some safe work environment for their employee. Actually, the processing times are not improving, they are doubling. I mean, malls are reopening, gyms are opening, and even the house of common meet remotely and somehow it is impossible to provide IRRC workers who work mostly on computers a safe work environment at the office or the ability to work remotely!!

To try to solve the situation, I encourage everyone here to contact your MP and explain to him/her how this 10-month processing timeline is impacting you and ask why IRRC seems to completely stop processing PR card applications? I assume a lot of us will be really happy to hear their official explanation and how they're working on solving this problem. Moreover, I believe this may encourage them to act and find some solutions.

 

[dpenabill]

First, I do not know why "according to you" is offense since you already mentioned that you are not an authority on the subject.

Even in my first reference to Canadian mobility rights I cited the source: the Charter of Rights. Not me, not me personally. The Charter of Rights.

Since you and others repeated the falsehood that Canadian PRs have a "constitutional" right to travel internationally, I took the time and made the effort to clearly cite and link and quote pertinent language in the Charter.

It is an implicit lie, and it appears to be deliberately misleading, to suggest that what I was posting about Canadian constitutional rights is NOT what is actually in the Charter, but as you dismissed it, merely "according to" me. No. It is according to the official version of the Charter of Rights. And it is blatant misrepresentation, and an apparently deliberate one, to assert otherwise.

I have no idea what freedom of expression has to do with calling out misleading information so that those who come here are not misled. If you are insisting you have a right to spread untruths, I do not know to what extent that is true, but I do know it is no justification for doing so. And it is certainly not reason to let it go unchallenged.

You may distrust my motives and dismiss my explanation. But, frankly, my posts have not been for you even if they are aimed at countering the misinformation posted. Again, my focus is on following and illuminating, as best we can, how things work, how to best navigate this system, so that those whose purpose for being here are genuine can find information that will, hopefully, help them make good choices going forward.

You can accuse me of lacking sympathy, but I have put in a lot of effort and time here to help others, in what little way I can.

Beyond that I wonder if you have been paying much if any attention to what is happening in Parliament these days and the confluence of far-reaching, deeply serious problems affecting MILLIONS of Canadians, not just the travel preferences of a few hundred. Now is the time, you assert, to push MPs to take action on a TEMPORARY problem for a few, as if the members of Parliament do not already have far more on their plate than can be handled. Sympathy for a few at the expense of the many is not really sympathetic. When one is in that few, that is almost textbook narcissism.

Let's be clear. For now, for some time to come, the better choice is to NOT plan on traveling internationally at all.

This is not the time to be petitioning Parliament to intervene in how IRCC is allocating its resources and prioritizing operations.

In particular, travel plans are DELAYED for everyone right now. Even those with all the proper documents. Yes, this affects me. It affects many millions of Canadians. The stories are all over the news. There are newly married couples who were on different sides of the border when this happened and they continue to be separated. Many parents and grandparents, including me, are separated from children and grandchildren. Some commentators are suggesting that international travel (except essential and non-discretionary travel) may continue to be restricted until the end of the year. SOME INTER-PROVINCIAL TRAVEL IS STILL RESTRICTED.

And sure, there are differing views about the viability and reasonableness of all this. Some views derive from genuine differences of opinion. Some are rooted in self-interest and inherently narcissistic. Policy arguments are above my pay grade. My focus is more plebeian. What works. What doesn't work. How things work. How to navigate what works.

Broad, unfounded assertions of rights that do not exist, for example, tend to not work. Rant-driven diatribes painting a misleading picture of how things works, for example, is not helpful. Advocating personal agendas in a time of national and international crisis is not only selfish but probably counterproductive.

Again, for now, addressing the subject posed by this topic, it is NOT complicated:

The IRCC information online still clearly states that it cannot process applications normally. And describes which applications are prioritized. PR card applications are not among those prioritized. The opposite. ​

​

For now, and for awhile more, the better choice is to NOT plan on traveling internationally at all. Even inter-Provincial travel is largely discouraged, and for some provinces still explicitly restricted.​

 

[fr72]

Those defending the IRCC have enormous sympathy for the well paid government workers, but trivialize the problems faced by people who need valid PR cards.

All the IRCC has to do is auto extend validity of all PR cards by 1 year (card production and mailing requires minimal human contact), but they wont. Meanwhile, people will fly abroad and then do risky things like go to have photographs taken, printouts taken, fly into border towns, visit foreign consulates for PRTD, etc.

Even anti immigrant administrations like USA are extending visa validities.

 

[lloyd153]

You seem to get very defensive regarding other people’s cause for concern (when you are fortunate not to face those issues). Lots of people are responding to you, outlining why you are wrong, but you seem to not care or are very stubborn.

You are wanting to make sure that mis-information is not spread so please see some facts outlined below:

Fact 1: The Canadian Immigration system is very good and typically very straight forward and without issue. This does not mean this is always the case. People should be able to voice concern regarding problems without the fear of being attacked. Pointing out issues that arise does not mean you are insulting the government but rather trying to identify ways to improve problems.

Fact 2: The government advises against non-essential travel. What constitutes essential travel? At present, without a PR Card or PRTD you couldn’t even go abroad for essential travel if you really had to. (There are unknown timings regarding the process of applying and getting a PRTD - this is a fact)

If you did go abroad, the government has put robust systems in place to prevent the spread of COVID (such as a 2 week quarantine). So it does allow for travel, and has put measures in place to help prevent the spread of COVID

Fact 3: Previous processing times for a PR Card were 45 days. This has changed due to COVID. The current process time’s are as follows, and seem to be increasing:

- Renewal - 299 days
- New - 103 days

Previous comments have stated that processes could be changed or implemented differently to improve the processing time. This is a fact.

You state that this is not a priority for the government. Which is a fact. PR holders are not a priority.

Alternative options are available:
- extended expiry of PR Cards
- issue paper document like a BOWP
- improve the system that creates a simple card to ensure there is not a delay of 299 days (other organisations do this daily)

To conclude:
Stating obvious flaws in a system, is not an attack on the system, but rather an outcry of concern as to how it could be resolved and so others who are going through the same issue can provide guidance and assistance . We should be able to voice out concerns on this forum without being called narcissistic.

 

[EUK]

You seem to get very defensive regarding other people’s cause for concern (when you are fortunate not to face those issues). Lots of people are responding to you, outlining why you are wrong, but you seem to not care or are very stubborn.

You are wanting to make sure that mis-information is not spread so please see some facts outlined below:

Fact 1: The Canadian Immigration system is very good and typically very straight forward and without issue. This does not mean this is always the case. People should be able to voice concern regarding problems without the fear of being attacked. Pointing out issues that arise does not mean you are insulting the government but rather trying to identify ways to improve problems.

Fact 2: The government advises against non-essential travel. What constitutes essential travel? At present, without a PR Card or PRTD you couldn’t even go abroad for essential travel if you really had to. (There are unknown timings regarding the process of applying and getting a PRTD - this is a fact)

If you did go abroad, the government has put robust systems in place to prevent the spread of COVID (such as a 2 week quarantine). So it does allow for travel, and has put measures in place to help prevent the spread of COVID

Fact 3: Previous processing times for a PR Card were 45 days. This has changed due to COVID. The current process time’s are as follows, and seem to be increasing:

- Renewal - 299 days
- New - 103 days

Previous comments have stated that processes could be changed or implemented differently to improve the processing time. This is a fact.

You state that this is not a priority for the government. Which is a fact. PR holders are not a priority.

Alternative options are available:
- extended expiry of PR Cards
- issue paper document like a BOWP
- improve the system that creates a simple card to ensure there is not a delay of 299 days (other organisations do this daily)

To conclude:
Stating obvious flaws in a system, is not an attack on the system, but rather an outcry of concern as to how it could be resolved and so others who are going through the same issue can provide guidance and assistance . We should be able to voice out concerns on this forum without being called narcissistic.

I hope IRCC folks read the issues faced by the people...

 

[amrelroby]

Even in my first reference to Canadian mobility rights I cited the source: the Charter of Rights. Not me, not me personally. The Charter of Rights.

Since you and others repeated the falsehood that Canadian PRs have a "constitutional" right to travel internationally, I took the time and made the effort to clearly cite and link and quote pertinent language in the Charter.

I never repeated any falsehood or argued about what constitutional rights of citizens versus privilege for PR residents. I do not know about constitutional law or how it applies to the current situation. You said you are not an authority, however, your word seems to be the final word like you are the supreme court of Canada.
This basically just a diversion of the main people concern here which long processing times.
Government issues laws that are years later struck down by the supreme court because they are not constitutional/fair/humane or they conflict with other law or legal principles and I assume governments have lawyers who specialize in these things.

So get over this topic and this very long philosophical discussion. This is not the concern here.
If in the far future, someone makes a lawsuit against the government, you are welcome to argue against his/her lawyer.

You may distrust my motives and dismiss my explanation. But, frankly, my posts have not been for you even if they are aimed at countering the misinformation posted. Again, my focus is on following and illuminating, as best we can, how things work, how to best navigate this system, so that those whose purpose for being here are genuine can find information that will, hopefully, help them make good choices going forward.

I think you repeated your opinion more than once and in length and it is your right and I never objected to it.
Again, thank you for the repeated accusation of misinformation and doubting how genuine people are.
I do not know you and i will not make any assumption about your motives.
I do not think everyone who complains, is acting in bad faith or has some dark agenda to mislead others, but that's my personal opinion.

You can accuse me of lacking sympathy, but I have put in a lot of effort and time here to help others, in what little way I can.

Beyond that, I wonder if you have been paying much if any attention to what is happening in Parliament these days and the confluence of far-reaching, deeply serious problems affecting MILLIONS of Canadians, not just the travel preferences of a few hundred. Now is the time, you assert, to push MPs to take action on a TEMPORARY problem for a few, as if the members of Parliament do not already have far more on their plate than can be handled. Sympathy for a few at the expense of the many is not really sympathetic. When one is in that few, that is almost textbook narcissism.

I think sympathy is caring about other people's concerns even if you think they are not important.
However, I would like to avoid dragging this to a personal opinion about motives and agenda.
Again, I do not know your personality and i do not your motives and I will not make assumptions about them.

Let's be clear. For now, for some time to come, the better choice is to NOT plan on traveling internationally at all.

This is not the time to be petitioning Parliament to intervene in how IRCC is allocating its resources and prioritizing operations.

Sure avoid travel if you can but some people can not avoid travel for a year.
I think those who are affected by this problem are the people who eventually have to decide to petition the parliament or not.
Yes, Canada and the world have a lot of issues and this one is a tiny one compared to others.
But it is a big issue for some people even if they are a minority and they have the right to petition.
This is the job of parliament, to make sure the government is accountable and making its best efforts to help people (even a minority of immigrants).

Again, for now, addressing the subject posed by this topic, it is NOT complicated:

The IRCC information online still clearly states that it cannot process applications normally. And describes which applications are prioritized. PR card applications are not among those prioritized. The opposite.

For now, and for awhile more, the better choice is to NOT plan on traveling internationally at all. Even inter-Provincial travel is largely discouraged, and for some provinces still explicitly restricted.

1) I and I think many others think IRCC can do much better for PR card processing, especially if they allow remote work and reopen like other parts of the country. This the reason we should petition the parliament.
2) No-one travel these days for the fun of it, however, some have to travel maybe sooner or later and in addition to all worries and difficulties, being stuck for a year because of PR cards should not be one of these difficulties.