PR card renewal now 299 days..

[Inpasarable]

But outside the current situation, the process for obtaining a PR TD is routine and ordinarily relatively quick. Again, with EXCEPTIONS.

Ok, I agree that outside of the current situation the whole system works very well and I personally had an impeccable service when getting my visas, my family's visas and throughout the whole process of becoming a Canadian permanent resident.

I disagree that you're trying to dismiss other people concerns about the current situation. I am sure nobody's here trying to say anything bad or misleading. That's not the point. The point is that people are scared and concerned of uncertainty that they are put into with the increased processing times of every type of the application, not only PR renewals.
And I think, it's reasonable to question the processes that are being (or to be) implemented in order to minimize the impacts of the Covid-reality on the Immigration system. At the same time, I understand that it's much much more complicated for IRCC to find an adequate solution that will not jeopardize the safety of their staff, simply because most of the applications are on paper, rather in electronic format. However, I truly hope they will find some solutions.

Now, about traveling. Yes, there're travel restrictions in place right now, no one questions that. The point is that even when travel restrictions are lifted, there will be a backlog of the applications of all sorts, so the processing times won't change back their pre-Covid numbers for a long time. As you have stated in one of your posts, you're a citizen. Hence once the travel restrictions are lifted, you will have no problem to leave Canada for whatever reason and come back. This is a different story for many concerned people including myself here. These people, with applications in progress that take extremely longer that any anticipated timelines, will still have to face uncertainty and anxiety about leaving Canada if they have to due to a family emergency for example.

 

[dpenabill]

Stating obvious flaws in a system, is not an attack on the system, but rather an outcry of concern as to how it could be resolved and so others who are going through the same issue can provide guidance and assistance . We should be able to voice out concerns on this forum without being called narcissistic.

As I have emphasized, not all complaints are created equal. Not every complaint or criticism is imbued with narcissism. Those which derive from putting self interest in front of others, however, quite obviously are. There has been plenty of the latter on display here.

Which leads to the nature and scope of the complaints, and what remedies are advocated. Is this about the "system" and how IRCC ordinarily and usually handles PR card applications? Or is it about how IRCC is handling things during this particular crisis?

As you point out, before the pandemic PR card processing times were in the range of six or so weeks, and actually less than that for a significant period of time, and generally were much better for the last couple of years than they were for quite a long while before that. It warrants acknowledging that for a long while they were averaging in the three to five month range, and for some periods even longer. It is readily apparent that PR card processing times have, up to the pandemic, been improving and were very much in the range of what most would deem reasonable.

Suggestions that this represents a broken or inept system in need of serious reform are clearly overblown if not entirely off the mark. But some of the criticisms here, above, and in other similar topics, suggest this is the case. Which it isn't. As previously quoted, one participant here was complaining about IRCC "denying travel for 1 year every 5 years" and that this amounted to violating PR's constitutional rights on a scale that should be the basis for, quote, "a Human Rights" case. That, to put it simply, is malarkey.

Criticisms about how IRCC is handling things during this Covid-19 crisis is a separate matter. Very early on in this discussion I agreed that how the government has dealt with this crisis raises real questions about how well it was prepared and what it can do to be better prepared WHEN there is another crisis on this scale (there is no "if," there will be another, only "when").

And in regard to this, sure, there is a wide range of conflicting views about the reasonableness of stay-at-home orders and travel restrictions. And about how the government has prioritized all sorts of its operations. Not everyone is on the same page as, say, those who approach this from the John Stuart Mill "other-regarding" perspective. And yeah, I lean toward the latter, with perhaps a bit of Marxist influence on top.

But even if one buys whole hog the view that the government's response to this crisis is a dismal failure, what is happening right now is still separate and apart from the usual and ordinary and routine processes, including processing PR card applications. And it is utterly NOT fair to those who come to this website and this forum, looking for information and insight about how things work, to characterize IRCC generally, or its PR card application processing in particular, as broken or inept or callous.

And it is also unfair to inaccurately lead them to believe that PR's have constitutionally protected internationally mobility rights. The latter is particularly important. Understanding one's rights is a huge, huge factor to be taken into consideration when making decisions.

Overall, criticisms are one thing. Misinformation is something else entirely.

As I have said, for now we are still smack-dab in the middle of this crisis. And, it is going to take awhile to get through this. Like it or not, international travel is, at best, discouraged. As I previously noted, there are still restrictions on travel between some provinces let alone internationally.

I do not know you and i will not make any assumption about your motives.

I would like to avoid dragging this to a personal opinion about motives and agenda.
Again, I do not know your personality and i do not your motives and I will not make assumptions about them.

In contrast . . .

You do not seem to be affected by this issue and as many noted seems to have no sympathy for people who are affected by it.

Frankly, the "I don't . . . even when I do" routine doesn't sell.

Otherwise . . . you do not need to be a constitutional law scholar to read and understand the rather simple language in Section 6 of the Charter which explicitly distinguishes the mobility rights of Canadian citizens, relative to leaving and entering Canada, versus those with PR status for whom it prescribes more limited, domestic mobility rights. No need to take my word for it. That's why I cited the Charter. No one need take my word for anything. I make an effort to write like composing math equations, in a manner for which almost anyone should be able follow and figure out the calculations for themselves, and otherwise relying on premises which are commonly known or readily verified in reliable sources (like the Charter of Rights).

In the meantime, let's be honest: even Canadian citizens are currently burdened with some very restrictive limitations regarding travel . . . including travel within Canada let alone internationally.

This baloney about "being stuck for a year because of PR cards" epitomizes the misinformation. Apart from the reality that not having a PR card does NOT prohibit traveling abroad. Currently routine PR card applications have been processed in less than six months. Any PR who made a PR card application before February this year either has been issued a new card or, for reasons particular to that individual, encountered non-routine processing.

The currently posted processing time for PR cards is 299 days, WITH ACCOMMODATION (albeit limited given the situation) for those who require a PR card urgently. Which is still multiple months LESS than a year.

It is possible that SOME (in addition to those who, for reasons particular to their own circumstances, encounter non-routine processing) will have their PR card application processing for as long as a year. But that is NOT where things are now, at least NOT yet. My sense ("my sense" being my way of distinguishing what I think, as in what is my opinion, in contrast to statements based on reliable sources) is that IRCC will get around to dealing with PR card applications in a way that avoids it taking a year for routinely processed applications. Or even the 299 days it is now publishing.

As I noted in response to @lloyd153, part of what is disconcerting in this and similar topics is the conflating of issues with how IRCC is prioritizing operations during the current Covid-19 crisis with how the system generally and ordinarily works in routinely processed PR card applications. It is misleading to characterize the latter based on delays due to the former.

I know where the "one year" processing time comes from. It comes from those whose cases wind up in Secondary Review. Maybe that is not relevant to why you referenced "being stuck for a year because of PR cards" but that definitely appears to be what is alluded to in posts complaining about IRCC "denying travel for 1 year every 5 years." Who gets bogged down in SR is a completely separate subject, mostly involving those who could have or should have readily recognized they were at risk for SR, having nothing to do with either the ordinary processing of PR cards or how IRCC is handling PR card application processing during this Covid-19 crisis.

 

[dpenabill]

The point is that people are scared and concerned of uncertainty that they are put into with the increased processing times of every type of the application, not only PR renewals.
And I think, it's reasonable to question the processes that are being (or to be) implemented in order to minimize the impacts of the Covid-reality on the Immigration system.

. . about traveling. Yes, there're travel restrictions in place right now, no one questions that. The point is that even when travel restrictions are lifted, there will be a backlog of the applications of all sorts, so the processing times won't change back their pre-Covid numbers for a long time. . . . These people, with applications in progress that take extremely longer that any anticipated timelines, will still have to face uncertainty and anxiety about leaving Canada if they have to due to a family emergency for example.

There is no doubt about the CURRENT situation posing problems, concerns, anxiety, and outright hardship on scores and scores of people. And it is likely that immigrants are encountering more than their share.

And sure, questioning the process is fair game. Within reason. Which, ironically, is lacking in a lot of complaints accusing IRCC of being unreasonable. I have addressed some of that. Like the misleading assertions that PR's have a constitutional mobility right which is being violated by the failure to more quickly process PR card applications.

But there appears to be a rather obdurate demand for immediate action with little regard for the nature and scope of the problems besieging every facet of the government these days. And these demands tend to be adorned with hyperbole if not outright distortions.

Delays due to Covid-19 will be temporary. Could be a rather uncomfortably long temporary. During this time there will be, for sure, very elevated levels of uncertainty and anxiety. Much more so for some compared to others. And for PRs whose PR cards are just now expiring, yeah, there is no reliable forecast for when a new one will be issued.

I have no answers for this. Various ideas have been tossed around, some making a bit of sense. My guess is that people in IRCC are already banging such things around and trying to figure out how to better accommodate processing PR cards, along with scores of other operations. And that they will get there. No fast enough for more than a few. But odds are they will adapt and adjust and move ahead with fulfilling their mandate.

But yes, you are right, it is very likely "there will be a backlog of the applications of all sorts," and those who are up against this need to know this, including that for now PR card application processing is NOT a prioritized operation. The opposite. And NO, there will not be any United Nations Human Rights action sweeping in to compel reform. Odds are the delays will continue for some time to come, until eventually this crisis really is in our rear-view mirrors. And even then, as you suggest, there will still be a backlog and some further delay. All of which those potentially affected in this way need to know so they can make appropriate decisions, for themselves, accordingly. The latter is largely if not essentially what this is about. Recognizing how things are so to enable making better choices, recognizing that the available options may be rather limited.

 

[amrelroby]

Frankly, the "I don't . . . even when I do" routine doesn't sell.

Otherwise . . . you do not need to be a constitutional law scholar to read and understand the rather simple language in Section 6 of the Charter which explicitly distinguishes the mobility rights of Canadian citizens, relative to leaving and entering Canada, versus those with PR status for whom it prescribes more limited, domestic mobility rights. No need to take my word for it. That's why I cited the Charter. No one need take my word for anything. I make an effort to write like composing math equations, in a manner for which almost anyone should be able follow and figure out the calculations for themselves, and otherwise relying on premises which are commonly known or readily verified in reliable sources (like the Charter of Rights).

This baloney about "being stuck for a year because of PR cards" epitomizes the misinformation. Apart from the reality that not having a PR card does NOT prohibit traveling abroad. Currently routine PR card applications have been processed in less than six months. Any PR who made a PR card application before February this year either has been issued a new card or, for reasons particular to that individual, encountered non-routine processing.

The currently posted processing time for PR cards is 299 days, WITH ACCOMMODATION (albeit limited given the situation) for those who require a PR card urgently. Which is still multiple months LESS than a year.

"
Frankly, the "I don't . . . even when I do" routine doesn't sell.
you do not need to be a constitutional law scholar ...
This baloney about ...
"

Is this the kind of condescending language you like to use within your long legal and plebeian arguments.
I was honestly trying to make this discussion civil and focused on the topic
However, again, you are burying this conversation with these very long posts.
All these arguments about mobility rights because someone dared to suggest the PR residents have the right to travel.

However, it is very interesting that you say that routine PR application takes only 6 months.
The website currently says the PR card processing average is 10 months.
You also commented many times about how many urgent PR card applications are not really urgent.
I do not know if you have intimate knowledge of IRCC inner workings or you just like to guess.
Is this mean that you work or used to work at IRCC or somehow connected to them?

To borrow some of your words, I frankly do not give baloney about your views and you do not need to be a constitutional law scholar to know you are a stubborn person who has a lot of time on his hand and likes to argue for no end.

Me on the other hand, I will try to enjoy the rest of the weekend and I wish good luck to everyone with their application.
Hopefully, IRCC mange to get processing moving so everyone who needs to join/visit his family in these difficult times can do promptly.

 

[canuck78]

First, you need to enter US, but not everyone has US visa

I’m from a country that visitors only need eta to come to Canada. All they have to do is apply before the flight then can stay in Canada for 6 months, even better, it’s multiple entries for 5 years! I don’t understand why the government/IRCC make a PR with expired PR card so difficult to come back home? I feel like my status here is even lower than a visitor!

You can switch to visitor status and see what happens if you go to a hospital. There are certainly differences. PR card renewal cqn only be done once RO is confirmed which is why it takes longer than an ETA. PR card renewal was quite fast before covid 19 and will likely return to a similar speed. Everything currently has delays due to covid from driving tests to surgeries. I empathize with those who have been waiting months for surgery only to have their surgery delayed due to covid. That is a much bigger problem.

 

[canuck78]

First, I do not know why "according to you" is offense since you already mentioned that you are not an authority on the subject.
Second, what trolling we do? What misinformation are we spreading?
To be honest I think all these accusations are distracting the people from the main issue.
This thread and all the discussion in it is about the huge jump in processing times and if they are justified.

I am not a lawyer but I know that freedom of expression is guaranteed in Canada, and we have a right to criticize any government official/organization and ask for an explanation to their policies.
At least this what I think the majority of people, either citizens or immigrants expect in this country.




For someone who claims that he is not defending the system, you sure write a very lengthy defense of the system.
You do not seem to be affected by this issue and as many noted seems to have no sympathy for people who are affected by it.
So, I would like to talk mainly to the people affected by this and summarize this issue and what we can do about it.

IRRC does not explain why after four months of this crisis, they can not adapt and improve processing times either by allowing remote work or providing some safe work environment for their employee. Actually, the processing times are not improving, they are doubling. I mean, malls are reopening, gyms are opening, and even the house of common meet remotely and somehow it is impossible to provide IRRC workers who work mostly on computers a safe work environment at the office or the ability to work remotely!!

To try to solve the situation, I encourage everyone here to contact your MP and explain to him/her how this 10-month processing timeline is impacting you and ask why IRRC seems to completely stop processing PR card applications? I assume a lot of us will be really happy to hear their official explanation and how they're working on solving this problem. Moreover, I believe this may encourage them to act and find some solutions.

The system has already started returning to normal. Once the PR cards started being processed again the processing time went from almost 300 to 100-150 days. This will continue to decrease. Like many other services across Canada there will be wait times as things come back online and then the wait times will slowly get lower. In general Canada is one of the safest countries to be given covid and there are very few flights so there Isn’t much travelling. Extending a PR card by 1 year would include processing so this wouldn’t solve an issue. Any MP you contact would not only discourage you from travelling unless it is an emergency and you had no other option, will remind you that Canada is not likely to be able to repatriate you if you get stuck and/or get sick abroad and will point out that processing times have already decreased dramatically and will continue to decrease.

 

[canuck78]

I never repeated any falsehood or argued about what constitutional rights of citizens versus privilege for PR residents. I do not know about constitutional law or how it applies to the current situation. You said you are not an authority, however, your word seems to be the final word like you are the supreme court of Canada.
This basically just a diversion of the main people concern here which long processing times.
Government issues laws that are years later struck down by the supreme court because they are not constitutional/fair/humane or they conflict with other law or legal principles and I assume governments have lawyers who specialize in these things.

So get over this topic and this very long philosophical discussion. This is not the concern here.
If in the far future, someone makes a lawsuit against the government, you are welcome to argue against his/her lawyer.



I think you repeated your opinion more than once and in length and it is your right and I never objected to it.
Again, thank you for the repeated accusation of misinformation and doubting how genuine people are.
I do not know you and i will not make any assumption about your motives.
I do not think everyone who complains, is acting in bad faith or has some dark agenda to mislead others, but that's my personal opinion.



I think sympathy is caring about other people's concerns even if you think they are not important.
However, I would like to avoid dragging this to a personal opinion about motives and agenda.
Again, I do not know your personality and i do not your motives and I will not make assumptions about them.



Sure avoid travel if you can but some people can not avoid travel for a year.
I think those who are affected by this problem are the people who eventually have to decide to petition the parliament or not.
Yes, Canada and the world have a lot of issues and this one is a tiny one compared to others.
But it is a big issue for some people even if they are a minority and they have the right to petition.
This is the job of parliament, to make sure the government is accountable and making its best efforts to help people (even a minority of immigrants).



1) I and I think many others think IRCC can do much better for PR card processing, especially if they allow remote work and reopen like other parts of the country. This the reason we should petition the parliament.
2) No-one travel these days for the fun of it, however, some have to travel maybe sooner or later and in addition to all worries and difficulties, being stuck for a year because of PR cards should not be one of these difficulties.

1. For privacy reasons you can’t process PR cards remotely. That is why most immigration workers couldn’t continue processing most things from home.
2. Half of the difficulties are due to the country people want to visit. Travelling during a pandemic comes with all sorts of risks.

 

[dpenabill]

However, it is very interesting that you say that routine PR application takes only 6 months.
The website currently says the PR card processing average is 10 months.

I did not say the current application only takes six months. In fact I said "The currently posted processing time for PR cards is 299 days."

Regarding six months, what I said was "Currently routine PR card applications have been processed in less than six months." For emphasis "have been." Past tense. This is based on information that IRCC has processed applications received up to February 10, 2020, which means applications made more than four months and 10 days ago HAVE BEEN processed . . . excepting those who, for reasons particular to the individual, encountered non-routine processing.

That's the problem in a nutshell, a blatant disregard for accuracy.

In contrast you are one among others claiming that the wait time for obtaining a PR card is "a year."

. . . being stuck for a year because of PR cards . . .

I believe I have already mentioned that the problem in nutshell is a blatant disregard for accuracy.


In any event, notwithstanding this

I was honestly trying to make this discussion civil and focused on the topic

and this

I do not know your personality and i do not your motives and I will not make assumptions about them.

there is this

To borrow some of your words, I frankly do not give baloney about your views and you do not need to be a constitutional law scholar to know you are a stubborn person who has a lot of time on his hand and likes to argue for no end.

Regarding the observation about many asking for urgent processing for more or less personal reasons rather than a genuinely urgent necessity to travel, you are probably right. My observation was based on the plethora of claims in this forum which appear to be more about personal choices rather than based on genuinely urgent necessity. I probably should not rely that much on many of the posts in the forum.

The current situation is largely what it is. As someone observed, yes, there are almost always ways to improve things. But for now the honest truth is that PR card processing is well down the priority queue and IRCC has been transparent about this. Those affected best be making decisions according to the facts, based on how things are actually working. There are, indeed, some tough choices to be made. We are not all going to get through this entirely intact.

 

[amrelroby]

1. For privacy reasons, you can’t process PR cards remotely. That is why most immigration workers couldn’t continue processing most things from home.
2. Half of the difficulties are due to the country people want to visit. Traveling during a pandemic comes with all sorts of risks.

1- You are raising a good point about privacy.
I understand there could be some technical issues about working remotely on sensitive private information.
It is difficult, but not impossible. The parliament and several critical government organization managed to do some work remotely.
The current processing time is 10 months and the backlog could continue to accumulate and push processing time further.
The processing time couple of weeks ago was about 174 days and then it almost doubled to 299 days, what next?
The crisis of COVID does not seem to finish anytime soon and everyone has to adapt and make changes.

2- As said before no one travels these because it is fun.
But some people have to travel to urgent family matters.

 

[amrelroby]

The system has already started returning to normal. Once the PR cards started being processed again the processing time went from almost 300 to 100-150 days. This will continue to decrease. Like many other services across Canada there will be wait times as things come back online and then the wait times will slowly get lower. In general Canada is one of the safest countries to be given covid and there are very few flights so there Isn’t much travelling. Extending a PR card by 1 year would include processing so this wouldn’t solve an issue. Any MP you contact would not only discourage you from travelling unless it is an emergency and you had no other option, will remind you that Canada is not likely to be able to repatriate you if you get stuck and/or get sick abroad and will point out that processing times have already decreased dramatically and will continue to decrease.

I assume you mean the processing time will go from 300 to 100-150, I hope so.
Very few people complained when for weeks the processing time were around 174 days.
I guess we assumed it should improve with reopening or it is acceptable given the current situation.
But it seems to be getting worse, jumping from 174 to 299 in one week!

will point out that processing times have already decreased dramatically and will continue to decrease.

What processing times that decreased? Nothing decreased on the IRCC website,
the only one that get update is the PR card processing and it went from 174 to 299 this week.
With regards to MP discouraging the travel, that is true they will discourage it
and I hope that things improve soon and everyone can back life as usual.
However, everyone has to decide the risks associated with his travels, and hopefully in a few months conditioned will be improved.
But assuming that for 10 months, we will not be able to travel at all and no one need PR cards is not reasonable in my view.

 

[canuck78]

1- You are raising a good point about privacy.
I understand there could be some technical issues about working remotely on sensitive private information.
It is difficult, but not impossible. The parliament and several critical government organization managed to do some work remotely.
The current processing time is 10 months and the backlog could continue to accumulate and push processing time further.
The processing time couple of weeks ago was about 174 days and then it almost doubled to 299 days, what next?
The crisis of COVID does not seem to finish anytime soon and everyone has to adapt and make changes.

2- As said before no one travels these because it is fun.
But some people have to travel to urgent family matters.

1. This was not a planned even where people can be set-up with special privacy settings. It also is likely not worth setting up so many people with remote privacy setting for a temporary situation. MPs and people working in their office and high level government employees may all have access to remote private connections so they can work remotely. All the government systems will need to be re-evaluated after covid 19.

2. When travelling during a pandemic even during an emergency a person always needs to analyze whether the visit is feasible given the risks. For example if wanting to travel now you could get covid 19 and get stuck for numerous months. It is always up to the person to decide whether someone is willing to accept the potential issues to be with family. Some will say they can’t risk it unfortunately where as some will take the risk. A PR card does not mean that you can get a flight out of many countries. Many have been stick even with a PR card for many months.

 

[steaky]

2) No-one travel these days for the fun of it, however, some have to travel maybe sooner or later and in addition to all worries and difficulties, being stuck for a year because of PR cards should not be one of these difficulties.

I actually knows people travel these days for vacation and fun. Provincial Parks are open for reservation for fellow residents of the province. Staycation is encourage within province.

 

[steaky]

2. When travelling during a pandemic even during an emergency a person always needs to analyze whether the visit is feasible given the risks. For example if wanting to travel now you could get covid 19 and get stuck for numerous months. I

Even if you don't travel during the pandemic, you could get covid 19 by merely taking a uber!

 

[PMM]

Hi

1- You are raising a good point about privacy.
I understand there could be some technical issues about working remotely on sensitive private information.
It is difficult, but not impossible. The parliament and several critical government organization managed to do some work remotely.
The current processing time is 10 months and the backlog could continue to accumulate and push processing time further.
The processing time couple of weeks ago was about 174 days and then it almost doubled to 299 days, what next?
The crisis of COVID does not seem to finish anytime soon and everyone has to adapt and make changes.

2- As said before no one travels these because it is fun.
But some people have to travel to urgent family matters.

1. CIC employees processing applications query CPIC, FBI system, US state criminal systems, GCMS, FOSS. System that the employee's working from home would not be able to access.

 

[Orlaith]

I am seriously hoping the the jump to 299 was a simple error. The website states that "This processing time tells you how long it took us to process most complete applications, in the past." If this was accurate it would mean that the office is only working on applications from August 2019 and I cannot really see how this could be the case. Perhaps things will slowly start to get up an running again and we can all get on with returning to some version of normal! Best of luck everyone. Keep us all posted!