PR card recalled and seized?

[abff08f4813c]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ImmigrationCanada/comments/1kse9yh/crack_develpping_in_pr_card

Appears it was just a manufactures recall
Per CBSA on Reddit

More accurately, rather than CBSA posting, someone who posted there encountered a CBSA official (but unlike on this thread, we don't know where, just when) and that official gave more details to the individual.

Thanks for the update sometimes the answer is actually straightforward.

Indeed. It's good to hear that someone official supposedly agreed that the replacement should be free, at least... a comment there references a memo, which seems plausible enough as well - but I guess these memos are not public so there's still no official confirmation from the gov't. I'd prefer a more official confirmation myself, but lacking that - this does seem straightforward enough.

this is just my 0.00000000001 cent of opinion... i think there are two kinds of immigrants: those who really wish to live in Canada, and those who just want to use Canada. to each his own? definitely. but then, can't blame others if they start questioning the motives. imho, it is rather unfair to those who've been a citizen for a long time and are actually working and living in Canada as compared to those who just acquired citizenship and is just using the power of the Canadian passport.

again, just my opinion...

So I think that when the gov't provides a pathway for folks to immigrate and become citizens, there's a kind of implicit contract here. The folks come to the benefit of Canada, and in return they're allowed to get PR and eventually become citizens. By the time they've become citizens, they've fulfilled their end of the contract to Canada, and should be allowed to reap the benefits.

If one says that the time to become a citizen from PR and all that is too short - that's not an unreasonable position to take, but it just means that the contract should be updated as to give Canada a better deal (say for example 5 years as a PR to citizenship to increase the amount of taxes paid or whatnot). I myself have been here nearly a decade and have been paying taxes and living and working in Canada all this time and I still haven't managed to secure citizenship yet. How much more do you want from me?

 

[canuck78]

More accurately, rather than CBSA posting, someone who posted there encountered a CBSA official (but unlike on this thread, we don't know where, just when) and that official gave more details to the individual.


Indeed. It's good to hear that someone official supposedly agreed that the replacement should be free, at least... a comment there references a memo, which seems plausible enough as well - but I guess these memos are not public so there's still no official confirmation from the gov't. I'd prefer a more official confirmation myself, but lacking that - this does seem straightforward enough.


So I think that when the gov't provides a pathway for folks to immigrate and become citizens, there's a kind of implicit contract here. The folks come to the benefit of Canada, and in return they're allowed to get PR and eventually become citizens. By the time they've become citizens, they've fulfilled their end of the contract to Canada, and should be allowed to reap the benefits.

If one says that the time to become a citizen from PR and all that is too short - that's not an unreasonable position to take, but it just means that the contract should be updated as to give Canada a better deal (say for example 5 years as a PR to citizenship to increase the amount of taxes paid or whatnot). I myself have been here nearly a decade and have been paying taxes and living and working in Canada all this time and I still haven't managed to secure citizenship yet. How much more do you want from me?

Pretty rare to work full-time for 10 years and not qualify for citizenship. Assume some of the time was as a student. In reality it typically takes much longer than even 10 years to provide a net benefit to Canada unless you were a very high income earner.

 

[abff08f4813c]

Pretty rare to work full-time for 10 years and not qualify for citizenship.

Well that's my case, more or less. Granted that it'd likely have been shorter if not for covid.

Assume some of the time was as a student.

No, not a single day. Been a temporary foreign worker the whole time prior to PR since coming to Canada.

In reality it typically takes much longer than even 10 years to provide a net benefit to Canada unless you were a very high income earner.

You don't define a high income earner. For what it's worth I'm currently in the highest tax bracket, both for Ontario and federally.

In reality it typically takes much longer than even 10 years to provide a net benefit to Canada

Well... just for the sake of argument, how much longer then, for someone who's not a very high income earner? Say just a standard middle class income earner (i.e. earning just under six figures). Ballpark figure at least.

I did say earlier that it's not unreasonable to update the contract to give Canada a better deal, but at some point the contract may start to look unattractive, if too much is being asked for.

 

[Copingwithlife]

More accurately, rather than CBSA posting, someone who posted there encountered a CBSA official (but unlike on this thread, we don't know where, just when) and that official gave more details to the individual.


Indeed. It's good to hear that someone official supposedly agreed that the replacement should be free, at least... a comment there references a memo, which seems plausible enough as well - but I guess these memos are not public so there's still no official confirmation from the gov't. I'd prefer a more official confirmation myself, but lacking that - this does seem straightforward enough.


So I think that when the gov't provides a pathway for folks to immigrate and become citizens, there's a kind of implicit contract here. The folks come to the benefit of Canada, and in return they're allowed to get PR and eventually become citizens. By the time they've become citizens, they've fulfilled their end of the contract to Canada, and should be allowed to reap the benefits.

If one says that the time to become a citizen from PR and all that is too short - that's not an unreasonable position to take, but it just means that the contract should be updated as to give Canada a better deal (say for example 5 years as a PR to citizenship to increase the amount of taxes paid or whatnot). I myself have been here nearly a decade and have been paying taxes and living and working in Canada all this time and I still haven't managed to secure citizenship yet. How much more do you want from me?

Canada doesn’t owe anyone anything tbh that comes willingly either as a student or temporary worker

That statement though does have a hint of entitlement

 

[abff08f4813c]

That statement though does have a hint of entitlement

You quoted my entire post and don't single out a specific statement .. so I don't know which part you're referring to here. I'm happy to address it but you'd need to be more specific.

Canada doesn’t owe anyone anything tbh that comes willingly either as a student or temporary worker

I'm guessing you mean in the specific context of e.g. a pathway to PR or citizenship. This is true in terms of a guarantee or such, all that's being offered is a chance. (I'd argue that once PR is obtained, this changes somewhat, but obtaining PR is also a kind of change in contract, metaphorically speaking.) The point I'm making here is that there's still an implied contract here - while the end result isn't guaranteed PR, it's for things that are useful to obtain PR. An international student who has a qualifying programme and graduates is able to obtain a PGWP and get work experience in Canada. You get points for studying and working in Canada in Express Entry, so folks who do this should get those points.

That being said, the above assumes a clear process with a yes/no answer. What can happen in practice is that folks are held in limbo, not sure what's going on with their applications or why things are dragging out. If a process is advertised as normally taking X years and it takes almost three times as long for a person to go through it, it shouldn't be surprising when that person is less than totally satisfied.

Canada doesn’t owe anyone anything tbh that comes willingly either as a student or temporary worker

Worth nothing that in the more general sense, this is definitely and clearly wrong. International students offer a chance to boost Canada's economy and also spread Canada's culture and learnings to other countries, in return those students get to personally live in Canada and experience it first-hand. Temporary workers are given a similar chance to experience Canada first-hand but also to earn Canadian wages in Canada, and get Canadian healthcare. And both groups are entitled to the protection of Canada (the country) while they live here.

 

[siddix16]

Did anyone apply for replacement card and is getting affected by Canada post strike?

 

[canuck78]

Canada doesn’t owe anyone anything tbh that comes willingly either as a student or temporary worker

That statement though does have a hint of entitlement

Well that's my case, more or less. Granted that it'd likely have been shorter if not for covid.


No, not a single day. Been a temporary foreign worker the whole time prior to PR since coming to Canada.


You don't define a high income earner. For what it's worth I'm currently in the highest tax bracket, both for Ontario and federally.


Well... just for the sake of argument, how much longer then, for someone who's not a very high income earner? Say just a standard middle class income earner (i.e. earning just under six figures). Ballpark figure at least.

I did say earlier that it's not unreasonable to update the contract to give Canada a better deal, but at some point the contract may start to look unattractive, if too much is being asked for.

Think 5 year until citizenship with no extra credit for time as a temporary resident and requirement to remain in Canada while processing citizenship requirement is fair. Attempts to limit the revolving door of new citizens without being too onerous to discourage many applicants.

 

[canuck78]

You quoted my entire post and don't single out a specific statement .. so I don't know which part you're referring to here. I'm happy to address it but you'd need to be more specific.

I'm guessing you mean in the specific context of e.g. a pathway to PR or citizenship. This is true in terms of a guarantee or such, all that's being offered is a chance. (I'd argue that once PR is obtained, this changes somewhat, but obtaining PR is also a kind of change in contract, metaphorically speaking.) The point I'm making here is that there's still an implied contract here - while the end result isn't guaranteed PR, it's for things that are useful to obtain PR. An international student who has a qualifying programme and graduates is able to obtain a PGWP and get work experience in Canada. You get points for studying and working in Canada in Express Entry, so folks who do this should get those points.

That being said, the above assumes a clear process with a yes/no answer. What can happen in practice is that folks are held in limbo, not sure what's going on with their applications or why things are dragging out. If a process is advertised as normally taking X years and it takes almost three times as long for a person to go through it, it shouldn't be surprising when that person is less than totally satisfied.


Worth nothing that in the more general sense, this is definitely and clearly wrong. International students offer a chance to boost Canada's economy and also spread Canada's culture and learnings to other countries, in return those students get to personally live in Canada and experience it first-hand. Temporary workers are given a similar chance to experience Canada first-hand but also to earn Canadian wages in Canada, and get Canadian healthcare. And both groups are entitled to the protection of Canada (the country) while they live here.

Think we can both agree that Canada and many international students lost sight of the actual goal of immigration to Canada. Canada ended up with many low quality applicants who don’t necessarily have a desire to integrate or add benefit to the Canadian economy and the government allowed many Canadian citizens to financially benefit from exploiting this group of newcomers. Sadly many who exploited and financially benefited from newcomers were members of similar communities. Canada has done a poor job encouraging or requiring newcomers to spread across the country and resettle into all communities. Sadly many newcomers would benefit from moving to communities with less newcomers or in a diverse community but most insist on settling in a few select locations. I have encouraged many newcomers to apply for jobs across Canada and settle where they find the best career opportunities instead of insisting on moving to a specific location but most do not take my advice.

 

[abff08f4813c]

Think 5 year until citizenship with no extra credit for time as a temporary resident
requirement is fair.

If not for my personal experience, I'd be inclined to agree with this completely. As it is, I'd be happy to agree with it with one modification - either extra credit should be given for time spent after being approved in principle (e.g. when passport request is made) or else - with the sole exception of security related reasons - the processing time for getting PR should be guarranted to a reasonable value (e.g. 2 years max).

Think
requirement to remain in Canada while processing citizenship requirement is fair.

I haven't personally experienced this (at least, not yet) but same deal here - some folks have not had their applications processed for over ten years, how can you ask someone to stay in one country without exception for that long? But if it's citizenship with two years processing max (aside from security concerns), and regular H&C is allowed in granting an exception to the stay requirement (so I can visit my dying mother who only got sick after I applied for citizenship) then we're good.


Even in the case where security concerns make it take 10+ years, I think automatically granting a wavier of the stay requirement after the expected reasonable period (call it two years) solves any potential unfairness. Person has to maintain RO anyways until the grant is given, which keeps the applicants honest (or at least tied to contributing to Canada) even after processing times start to get unreasonable...

Attempts to limit the revolving door of new citizens without being too onerous to discourage many applicants.

Yep, seems fair enough.

Think we can both agree that Canada and many international students lost sight of the actual goal of immigration to Canada.

You think correctly. Agreed.

Canada ended up with many low quality applicants who don’t necessarily have a desire to integrate or add benefit to the Canadian economy

Not sure who you are referring to. Folks who applied for PR directly from overseas without being in Canada?

International students automatically contribute a benefit to the economy because they spend huge sums for their education and living. Meanwhile, temporary foreign workers actually work in Canada, so they are actively participating in the economy. If they're highly skilled and highly paid, then this is a benefit.

Of course not every international student is a good fit but being an international student can open a pathway to PR. It seems almost as if Canada should have some kind of culture fit and benefits (to Canada) test for folks considering PR, particularly prospective international students. So that they know in advance if they're not a good fit that they may be better off looking elsewhere, instead of getting lurked in by false promises.

and the government allowed many Canadian citizens to financially benefit from exploiting this group of newcomers. Sadly many who exploited and financially benefited from newcomers were members of similar communities.

Agreed. This is unfortunately and unfair. The worst part is that international students - who had other choices - may have well decided to put up with this specifically in return for the promise of PR, only to later be disappointed when PR proved to be out of reach.

Canada has done a poor job encouraging or requiring newcomers to spread across the country and resettle into all communities. Sadly many newcomers would benefit from moving to communities with less newcomers or in a diverse community but most insist on settling in a few select locations. I have encouraged many newcomers to apply for jobs across Canada and settle where they find the best career opportunities instead of insisting on moving to a specific location but most do not take my advice.

So I have a somewhat different perspective on this. I've seen that the most diverse locations seem to be the largest metropolises. Likewise, these larger places have a larger economy, and thus have more opportunity. Hence why everyone seems to wind up going to Toronto or Vancouver.

You're right that Canada could be doing a better job to encourage folks to settle in other places. Promoting remote work when applicable, for example, to allow folks to take that Toronto gig but do the work while living in Saskatoon. And when these folks then spread out, that makes the smaller cities more diverse too.

Of course some people have family or friends in Canada and want to move to be near them, so we're not going to get everyone. But there's still a lot of room to do this better here..