PR card Expires before the 730 days required

[canaman]

Thanks for the swift response.
How quickly are you asked to leave if you do not appeal it?
Equally are there cost implications of appealing ?

The last thing I can afford is to arrive and be asked to leave in 30 days.

We will definitely stay 2 years without leaving providing we get that far @

 

[Leon]

If you do not appeal within 30 days, they will most likely issue a departure order against you soon after that. If they do that, you would have 30 days to leave after the departure order is issued. You would have to check in with immigration as you leave to make sure they register your exit.

If you do not leave 30 days after getting a departure order, it changes into a deportation order. If you have a deportation order against you, you could expect that immigration will at some point come and collect you and your family and send you home.

You should try not to get reported but if it happens, you must appeal. If you appeal, you can stay during the appeal processing which will take 1-2 years even if you end up losing the appeal and having to go home after that. If you don't appeal, you might as well go home again right away.

 

[canaman]

Thanks Leon.

Is thee anything you can do when you have landed to try and avoid being reported or is it down to pure luck?
When we arrive what queue do you go through, would it be the normal visitor one or Canadian resident ? Could that make a difference on questions being asked?

Sorry for the questions

 

[shozee]

Hi Leon

I am working outside Canada on rotation basis 2 months on/off. My PR card is going to expire soon and I need to apply for it. I was reading the timeline of renewing it and it is now 5 months approximately. Could you advise me how to renew my card earlier than five months?

Thanks and much appreciated

 

[canaman]

Hi Leon / anyone else

Regarding the appeal. Can you appeal regardless of the reason you give at customs and even if they think the reason isn't good enough will it always take a minimum of a year.

Many thanks

 

[Msafiri]

If you do not appeal within 30 days, they will most likely issue a departure order against you soon after that. If they do that, you would have 30 days to leave after the departure order is issued. You would have to check in with immigration as you leave to make sure they register your exit.
.....

Departure order issued as part of the sec 44 report which the PR signs so on the day at the airport/ land border crossing etc. Appealing within 30 days 'stays' the departure order until a final decision is made under due process before the IAD and/or the FC.

Thanks Leon.

Is thee anything you can do when you have landed to try and avoid being reported or is it down to pure luck?
When we arrive what queue do you go through, would it be the normal visitor one or Canadian resident ? Could that make a difference on questions being asked?

Sorry for the questions

1. Maintain the RO is the only way to avoid a sec 44 report (for RO breach)
2. You are returning to reside in Canada so go to the resident line - even if you go to the visitors line you will get sent to Secondary Inspection and they will have all the time for your story. Doesn't really matter what you say but tell the truth when asked a question. The CBSA agents get PRs every day trying to BS about their absences so best not to play games. Depending on the agent you may be the luckiest PR and not get reported or you may get just dues by playing the RO roulette.

Hi Leon / anyone else

Regarding the appeal. Can you appeal regardless of the reason you give at customs and even if they think the reason isn't good enough will it always take a minimum of a year.

Many thanks

Sure you can appeal (before the IAD) just to buy time even if your appeal has no merit. Appeals to the FC need the FC's permission and have to be on a point of law so it will get bounced fast. Extensive case law as supported by the political environment and the general public takes the view that PR status is to reside in Canada not some form of glorified visitors visa. The weak 40% RO (2/5 years) means when you breach and get reported you usually lose.

 

[canaman]

Many thanks for the reply Msafiri.
Is there a usual time scale on the appeal. Leon made it sound like it takes 1-2 years but your reply suggests it could be a lot shorter.
Are you very likely to get reported on your RO status at the airport?

I still don't quite understand that if my PR is valid for well over a year why couldn't we stay till it runs out then be made to leave?
Equally aren't you entitled to be in Canada on holiday for upto 6 months anyway?

 

[Msafiri]

Many thanks for the reply Msafiri.
Is there a usual time scale on the appeal. Leon made it sound like it takes 1-2 years but your reply suggests it could be a lot shorter.
....

Stage 1 before the IAD can be 12-18 months or longer depending on IAD case load e.g. GTA light, AB/BC/SK/MB heavy. You may be processed faster if your argument mirrors those of other appellants that can be used as reference case law but I see nothing in your thread indicating this.

Stage 2 before the FC if accepted can be 12-18 months. The FC rarely accepts further appeals.

....
Are you very likely to get reported on your RO status at the airport?

Already answered - no one can give you a definite answer. It depends who you find at the border on the day. If the CBSA agent is doing their job and you have no compelling reasons to be absent he/she should report you don't you agree?

....
I still don't quite understand that if my PR is valid for well over a year why couldn't we stay till it runs out then be made to leave?

First off you are confusing PR Card validity with valid RO status - the two are not always related as in you can have one but not the other. Secondly no one is making you leave. You can enter, remain and depart Canada with cycle repeated until appeal is won/lost. During the appeal process you can apply for PR cards and get issued 1 year validity cards but CIC will just delay the processing of the cards administratively by issuing RQs and/or requiring you to attend interviews which isn't going to be any time soon. Leaving Canada after report is really saying you don't care about your PR don't you agree? You also risk getting stuck outside Canada and missing the appeal hearing. Also its not going to be a pleasant border crossing as you will be dispatched to Secondary Inspection most times.

...
Equally aren't you entitled to be in Canada on holiday for upto 6 months anyway?

As a PR you are 'entitled' to enter and remain in Canada subject to not becoming inadmissible e.g breaching the RO and where due process has been followed in revoking your PR for this inadmissibility. If you want the unfettered, permanent right to enter and leave Canada at will you need to obtain Canadian Citizenship.

 

[canaman]

Thanks again for the replies.

I might be getting things confused here. Can I clarify please.
Our situation has changed and we want to come over and live FOREVER
BUT we will not meet the PR requirement.
We would have about 16 months left on our PR but this is clearly not going to meet the requirements.

As we are leaving the UK with young children and having to rent out a property (at home) and leave schools we would need to live in Canada for at least a year to make all the upheaval worth it.

My main question is do you think due to all the time scales and what we have left on PR will we get to be in Canada for at least 1 year?
I know you have answered some questions but it seems you may not fully understand what my initial question.

I understand the 730 days consecutive when we come over before applying for PR again. We would not be wanting to leave Canada in that time. So we don't have a problem with that part.
I appreciate it's our fault for letting the time lapse. But initially my main concern was AFTER the 5 years and not making the days but now my main concern is making it through the airport by the sounds of it.

 

[Msafiri]

When you are desperate you fail to understand information as provided. One of two things will happen at the border when you return:

1. You will be admitted without report
2. You will be admitted with report

If 1 happens be grateful and stay in Canada for 730 days straight without leaving to get your RO back in good standing. In this time avoid interacting with CIC, CBSA. So no PR Card renewals, no sponsorship and zero travel outside Canada.

If 2 happens you must appeal within 30 days. If you don't appeal then you must leave Canada in 30 days or else you will just make a bad situation worse. You can stay in Canada until the appeal is decided. This may or may not be within the one year timeline you repeatedly state. In my opinion an appeal will not be listed for hearing before 12 months. The courts are busy and PR RO based appeals are not a 'political issue' say like refugee appeals so CIC/IAD isn't in a great rush to push these through as they are not a priority. During this time to appeal you can go about your normal business including employment, education including for your kids etc so there is some stability in that sense.

Some families have one PR parent (seems on the forum to be usually the father) return to Canada and if not reported the rest of the family then try a re-entry without report. Even if the family is reported then PR parent that entered initially without report can re-sponsor them. This can also be the other way round where first PR family member gets reported and second PR family member is not reported (less likely though as report details from first PR member re-entering recorded on databases so CIC will be on the look out for family members).

Sorry there are no guarantees as to what will happen until you return and see what happens at the border. If you want re-assurance prior to return then apply for a PRTD at the London visa post but don't expect any success.

 

[canaman]

Many thanks, I really appreciate the time you have taken to reply to my questions.
It's all quite clear now, it mainly all hinges on the person you get at the airport.
Looks like we will be the nervous ones going through immigration.

 

[canaman]

Just a quick question, I have just noticed my eldest daughters PR card expires 10 months after the rest of ours. So technically she could still make the 730 days
Do you think this in anyway helps or am I clutching at straw?

 

[nader gamal]

Hi Leon,

About my case again, please advise what will be the new requirments of residency and Citizenship in regards to the new rules of C24? is it will be 4 from 6 years?

 

[meyakanor]

Just a quick question, I have just noticed my eldest daughters PR card expires 10 months after the rest of ours. So technically she could still make the 730 days
Do you think this in anyway helps or am I clutching at straw?

I think Leon and Msafiri have mentioned it several times, but let me say it again. Do NOT look at the expiration date of your PR card. IGNORE the PR card expiration date COMPLETELY. Look at the date you LANDED, then move forward five years from this date. If you have 731 days within this period, or you can still potentially have 731 days, you're safe, otherwise, you're risking getting reported at entry.

Likewise for your eldest daughter. Do NOT look at her PR card expiration date. Go look up her landing paper, and find the date she LANDED. Use this date, move forward five years, and see if she can still have 731 days within this period. If not, then she too is in danger of getting reported at entry, REGARDLESS of her PR card expiration date.

 

[nader gamal]

Hi
I am asking about the new citizenship rules, that I have to stay 4 years out of 6 years to submit for citizenship. is that new law is applicable on old PR holdings? I landed on November 2011 and at that time I received the RO that to spend 2 years out of five for PR renewal and 3 years out of five for citizenship.
the new law about PR renewal and citizenship, how it will work and existing PR holders?