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PR application rejected, bridging open WP application in process

sanat.376

Star Member
Jan 8, 2014
51
0
hi all,
my application for the extension of my post graduate open work permit, in the form of bridging open wp was made on the basis of my PR application.
since my PR application has been rejected, and my status according to initial PGWP has expired, am I still allowed to work for my canadian employers as i havent got a decision on the bridging application( which i know will be negative) considering CIC website says they are still processing extension applications received a month before I made mine.
also i look forward to apply under cec. so do i have any grace period to stay and apply in that category? i have one year full time experience with language requirements

things are really tense for me, quickest replies are expected and will be truly appreciated. Help me out friends, i think i dont deserve such bad luck.

thanks in advance,
Sanat
 

gladaki

Champion Member
Jul 15, 2012
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sanat.376 said:
hi all,
my application for the extension of my post graduate open work permit, in the form of bridging open wp was made on the basis of my PR application.
since my PR application has been rejected, and my status according to initial PGWP has expired, am I still allowed to work for my canadian employers as i havent got a decision on the bridging application( which i know will be negative) considering CIC website says they are still processing extension applications received a month before I made mine.
also i look forward to apply under cec. so do i have any grace period to stay and apply in that category? i have one year full time experience with language requirements

things are really tense for me, quickest replies are expected and will be truly appreciated. Help me out friends, i think i dont deserve such bad luck.

thanks in advance,
Sanat
Why ur application is rejected ? post ur letter here exclude ur personal details.. Also which NOC code and class u applied...Also post your duties which u included in reference letter..may be there can be solution...also can u tell me in which province ur
 

gladaki

Champion Member
Jul 15, 2012
1,683
27
Category........
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Ottawa
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
17-11-2013
AOR Received.
30-12-2013
IELTS Request
submitted with application
Med's Done....
Upfront on 29th April..Updated on Ecas on 26th May
Passport Req..
11-07-2014
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17-07-2014
LANDED..........
20-07-2014
If this is you, you still need to answer all the above questions for people to guide you. As of now you cant work as ur wp got expired

I ALL,
I am a temporary foreign worker,was a plumber in my home country,which is India.went to a canadian post secondary institution and completed a 1 year certificate program in the same field(which is called a pre apprenticeship prog.) got a PGWP.worked with a canadian plumbing company for over a year.PGWP IS about to expire and my PR application under FEDERAL SKILLED TRADES CLASS got rejected.It passed the 1st stage though saying it was good for processing. someone said it wasnt my category in the 1st place but my lawyer(big lawyers in downtown toronto) said it was. It didnt need a CERTICATION,LMO..just a permanent job offer,past WORK experience,language testing,qualification from home country and completion of at least one year from a canadian post secondary institute.I HAVE IT ALL...!!!!!!.

Now can someone here please please please tell me which category I am good to apply in?? CEC?? wil i need an LMO? again I have the following:
1) one year of full time paid work experience in plumbing( regulated trade, requires license, i was hired as a plumber on PGWP)

2)HIGH PROFICIENCY CELPIP RESULTS NOT EVEN A YEAR OLD YET

3) i got my canadian work experience through PGWp(open)
OR ANY OTHER.

OH AND BY THE WAY MY LEGAL STATUS HAS EXPIRED AD I HAD APPLIED FOR A BRIDGING OPEN WP, BUT MY PREVIOUS APPLICATION FOR PR ALSO GOT REJECTED RECENTLY....what do i do guys?Huh? please help.....please.

SANAT
 

sanat.376

Star Member
Jan 8, 2014
51
0
hi gladaki,
thanks so much for replying.here's what was in the letter from CIC case officer to my laywers which they forwarded me.....


....'' I have now completed the assessment of your application for a permanent resident under the Federal Skilled Trades Class. I have determined that you do not meet the requirements for immigration to Canada.



Subsection 87.2(3) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations states that a foreign national is a member of the federal skilled trades class if:

d) they meet at least one of the following requirements:

i. they hold a certificate of qualification issued by a competent provincial authority in the skilled trade occupation specified in the application,

ii. they are in Canada and hold a work permit that is valid on the date on which their application is made and, on the date on which the visa is issued, hold a valid work permit or are authorized to work in Canada under section 186, and

A) the work permit was issued based on a positive determination by an officer under subsection 203(1) with respect to their employment in a skilled trade occupation,

(B) they are working for any employer specified on the work permit, and

(C) they hold an offer of employment — for continuous full-time work for a total of at least one year in the skilled trade occupation that is specified in the application and is in the same minor group set out in the National Occupational Classification as the occupation specified on their work permit — that is made by up to two employers, other than an embassy, high commission or consulate in Canada or an employer whose name appears on the list referred to in subsection 203(6), who are specified on the work permit, subject to the visa being issued to the foreign national,

iii. they are in Canada and hold a work permit referred to in paragraph 204(a) or (c) — that is valid on the date on which their application is received — and, on the date on which the visa is issued, hold a valid work permit or are authorized to work in Canada under section 186, and the circumstances referred to in clauses (ii)(B) and (C) apply,

iv. they do not hold a valid work permit or are not authorized to work in Canada under section 186 on the date on which their application is made and

(A) up to two employers, other than an embassy, high commission or consulate in Canada or an employer whose name appears on the list referred to in subsection 203(6), have made an offer of employment in the skilled trade occupation specified in the application for continuous full-time work for a total of at least one year to them subject to the visa being issued to them, and

(B) an officer has approved the offer for full-time work — based on an opinion provided to the officer by the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development, on the same basis as an opinion provided for the issuance of a work permit, at the request of up to two employers or an officer — that the requirements set out in subsection 203(1) with respect to the offer have been met, and

v. they either hold a valid work permit or are authorized to work in Canada under section 186 on the date on which their application for a permanent resident visa is made and on the date on which it is issued, and

(A) the circumstances referred to in clauses (ii)(B) and (C) and subparagraph (iii) do not apply, and

(B) the circumstances referred to in clauses (iv)(A) and (B) apply.

I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements listed above. You indicated on your application that your occupation in Canada is as a Plumbing Mechanic (NOC 7251). You do not have a certificate that meets the requirement of i. above; your Ontario College Certificate is not such a certificate. As you are in Canada and have an open, Post-graduate work permit, you do not meet the requirements of ii., iii., and iv. As you do not have a Labour Market Opinion, you do not meet the requirements of v. above. As such, you failed to demonstrate that you met the requirements of Regulation 87.2(3).



Subsection 11(1) of the Act states that a foreign national must, before entering Canada, apply to an officer for a visa or for any other document required by the regulations. The visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the officer is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. Subsection 2(2) specifies that unless otherwise indicated, references in the Act to “this Act” include regulations made under it.



Following an examination of your application, I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of the Act and the regulations for the reasons explained above. I am therefore refusing your application.
 

sanat.376

Star Member
Jan 8, 2014
51
0
... and my duties from CANADIAN EMPLOYER included:

1. read blueprints and drawings and determine the layouts for water supply and plumbing systems
2. assemble pipe sections tubings and fittings
3.able to repair and install plumbing fixtures
4. familiarized with pipe connections and able to measure and cut pipes using power tools and machines
5. join pipes using welding machines
6. test pipes for leaks using air and water pressure gauges
7. may prepare cost estimates


Duties from my INDIAN EMPLOYERS on my 4 year experience certificate included:

1. reading blueprints,drawings and specifications to determine the layout of plumbing systems
2. installation,repair and maintenance of plumbing fixtures and faucets in residential and commercial projects
3. help to prepare cost estimates in various plumbing projects of the company
4. testing of plumbing systems after completion
5.helping with new recruitments
6. supervision of new recruitments to ensure their proper induction in our field of work

I was the senior plumbing technician and assisted project managers on regualr basis
 

sanat.376

Star Member
Jan 8, 2014
51
0
i AM IN ONTARIO.... My lawyers gave me NOC 7251 (PLUMBERS) MY EMPLOYERS HIRED ME AS A PLUMBER TOO BUT WITHOUT LICENSE,. PEOPLE AT centre for education and training( referred by SERVICE CANADA guys ) TOLD ME SINCE I HAD OBTAINED PGWP and was hired on the same they could still call me plumber, i could and did all the jobs of a plumber which were in the list of duties and even more...however my pay rate may not be the same and also since I was always working with licensed master plumbers it was legal....
 

scylla

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Jun 8, 2010
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sanat.376 said:
i AM IN ONTARIO.... My lawyers gave me NOC 7251 (PLUMBERS) MY EMPLOYERS HIRED ME AS A PLUMBER TOO BUT WITHOUT LICENSE,. PEOPLE AT centre for education and training( referred by SERVICE CANADA guys ) TOLD ME SINCE I HAD OBTAINED PGWP and was hired on the same they could still call me plumber, i could and did all the jobs of a plumber which were in the list of duties and even more...however my pay rate may not be the same and also since I was always working with licensed master plumbers it was legal....
You can call yourself a plumber - but you don't meet the requirements to apply for CEC as a plumber. You either needed to be working under an LMO or you needed to be working with a license. For this reason you don't qualify under CEC.
 

random123

Star Member
Oct 16, 2012
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OP applied under Federal Skilled Trades, as referred to in the rejection email from CIC. Not CEC. different set of requirements.

scylla said:
You can call yourself a plumber - but you don't meet the requirements to apply for CEC as a plumber. You either needed to be working under an LMO or you needed to be working with a license. For this reason you don't qualify under CEC.
 

Dana2014

Newbie
Jan 8, 2014
4
0
As far as I see it, you've applied for Federal Skilled Trades Class. That's why your application is rejected if you graduated from Canada and have work experience in Canada you need to apply for Canadian Experience Class which is a different category.




sanat.376 said:
hi gladaki,
thanks so much for replying.here's what was in the letter from CIC case officer to my laywers which they forwarded me.....


....'' I have now completed the assessment of your application for a permanent resident under the Federal Skilled Trades Class. I have determined that you do not meet the requirements for immigration to Canada.



Subsection 87.2(3) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations states that a foreign national is a member of the federal skilled trades class if:

d) they meet at least one of the following requirements:

i. they hold a certificate of qualification issued by a competent provincial authority in the skilled trade occupation specified in the application,

ii. they are in Canada and hold a work permit that is valid on the date on which their application is made and, on the date on which the visa is issued, hold a valid work permit or are authorized to work in Canada under section 186, and

A) the work permit was issued based on a positive determination by an officer under subsection 203(1) with respect to their employment in a skilled trade occupation,

(B) they are working for any employer specified on the work permit, and

(C) they hold an offer of employment — for continuous full-time work for a total of at least one year in the skilled trade occupation that is specified in the application and is in the same minor group set out in the National Occupational Classification as the occupation specified on their work permit — that is made by up to two employers, other than an embassy, high commission or consulate in Canada or an employer whose name appears on the list referred to in subsection 203(6), who are specified on the work permit, subject to the visa being issued to the foreign national,

iii. they are in Canada and hold a work permit referred to in paragraph 204(a) or (c) — that is valid on the date on which their application is received — and, on the date on which the visa is issued, hold a valid work permit or are authorized to work in Canada under section 186, and the circumstances referred to in clauses (ii)(B) and (C) apply,

iv. they do not hold a valid work permit or are not authorized to work in Canada under section 186 on the date on which their application is made and

(A) up to two employers, other than an embassy, high commission or consulate in Canada or an employer whose name appears on the list referred to in subsection 203(6), have made an offer of employment in the skilled trade occupation specified in the application for continuous full-time work for a total of at least one year to them subject to the visa being issued to them, and

(B) an officer has approved the offer for full-time work — based on an opinion provided to the officer by the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development, on the same basis as an opinion provided for the issuance of a work permit, at the request of up to two employers or an officer — that the requirements set out in subsection 203(1) with respect to the offer have been met, and

v. they either hold a valid work permit or are authorized to work in Canada under section 186 on the date on which their application for a permanent resident visa is made and on the date on which it is issued, and

(A) the circumstances referred to in clauses (ii)(B) and (C) and subparagraph (iii) do not apply, and

(B) the circumstances referred to in clauses (iv)(A) and (B) apply.

I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements listed above. You indicated on your application that your occupation in Canada is as a Plumbing Mechanic (NOC 7251). You do not have a certificate that meets the requirement of i. above; your Ontario College Certificate is not such a certificate. As you are in Canada and have an open, Post-graduate work permit, you do not meet the requirements of ii., iii., and iv. As you do not have a Labour Market Opinion, you do not meet the requirements of v. above. As such, you failed to demonstrate that you met the requirements of Regulation 87.2(3).



Subsection 11(1) of the Act states that a foreign national must, before entering Canada, apply to an officer for a visa or for any other document required by the regulations. The visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the officer is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. Subsection 2(2) specifies that unless otherwise indicated, references in the Act to “this Act” include regulations made under it.



Following an examination of your application, I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of the Act and the regulations for the reasons explained above. I am therefore refusing your application.
 

sanat.376

Star Member
Jan 8, 2014
51
0
to begin with, thanks everyone for the inputs,
secondly, i understand i need to have a license to be able to legally practice the trade her in canada, need a 'c' of 'q' called certificate of qualification. but i spoke to cic, and i expressed my concern about the information being scattered across several different pages on cic website and they said someone would call me back as i showed my dissatisfaction so this morning someone from cic called me, from an unknown no. gave his name.
i told him i did not have a license but acquired the work experience through legal means which was POST GRADUATION WORK PEMIT, open, allowing me to work fr any employer here. and he asked ( lemme put it in direct speech,in his own words)

''would you have 12 months of work experience in the preceeding 36 months when u will apply for cec?''
''yes''
'' did you acquire this experience through a valid work permit''
''yes i did''
'' do you have all language requirements fulfilled''
'' high proficiency''
'' then you are good to apply''

then i asked but this is a regulated field,needs licensing to work legally
to which he said that ''yes,but the noc b is technical and skilled trades.'' you have gathered one year of experience in this skilled trade,through legit means .you are good.

also guys i think if CEC itself says one year experience in a skilled trade, doesn the govt know that a temporary foreign worker wouldnt have a license in a skilled trade,obviuosly? why then would a skilled trade be put in this category requiring only a year's experience? also expeience gained through a PGWP is also acknowledged, and there is no post secondary course in any post secondary institute in canada in the trade of plumbing that will give you more than one year of PGWP.
 

hamad0313

Star Member
Jul 24, 2009
159
2
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......
2132
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
23-07-2012
AOR Received.
17-08-2012
Med's Request
20-08-2013
Med's Done....
30-09-2013
Passport Req..
04-02-2014
VISA ISSUED...
07-02-2014
LANDED..........
19-03-2014
Sanat! I totally agree with you and the cic guy who told you that, looks like cic made a mistake and it is not unusual, maybe they referred to an operational bulletin meant for different class , I would say contact a good lawyer and challenge their decision as soon as possible. I know this as I work as an Engineer which is also a regulated profession but the time I applied I didn't have any registration with regulatory body, as long as you work under the supervision of registered professional your work experience is acceptable. send them a letter I am pretty sure they will re-consider your case and re open it.

Also, in the letter they say "Subsection 87.2(3) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations states that a foreign national is a member of the federal skilled trades class if:" tell them you didnt apply under skilled traded so this subsection is not applicable to your case. You have your AOR send it to them it should state CEC which should clear any doubts they have.


sanat.376 said:
to begin with, thanks everyone for the inputs,
secondly, i understand i need to have a license to be able to legally practice the trade her in canada, need a 'c' of 'q' called certificate of qualification. but i spoke to cic, and i expressed my concern about the information being scattered across several different pages on cic website and they said someone would call me back as i showed my dissatisfaction so this morning someone from cic called me, from an unknown no. gave his name.
i told him i did not have a license but acquired the work experience through legal means which was POST GRADUATION WORK PEMIT, open, allowing me to work fr any employer here. and he asked ( lemme put it in direct speech,in his own words)

''would you have 12 months of work experience in the preceeding 36 months when u will apply for cec?''
''yes''
'' did you acquire this experience through a valid work permit''
''yes i did''
'' do you have all language requirements fulfilled''
'' high proficiency''
'' then you are good to apply''

then i asked but this is a regulated field,needs licensing to work legally
to which he said that ''yes,but the noc b is technical and skilled trades.'' you have gathered one year of experience in this skilled trade,through legit means .you are good.

also guys i think if CEC itself says one year experience in a skilled trade, doesn the govt know that a temporary foreign worker wouldnt have a license in a skilled trade,obviuosly? why then would a skilled trade be put in this category requiring only a year's experience? also expeience gained through a PGWP is also acknowledged, and there is no post secondary course in any post secondary institute in canada in the trade of plumbing that will give you more than one year of PGWP.
 

jes_ON

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Jun 22, 2009
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hamad0313 said:
Sanat! I totally agree with you and the cic guy who told you that, looks like cic made a mistake and it is not unusual, maybe they referred to an operational bulletin meant for different class , I would say contact a good lawyer and challenge their decision as soon as possible. I know this as I work as an Engineer which is also a regulated profession but the time I applied I didn't have any registration with regulatory body, as long as you work under the supervision of registered professional your work experience is acceptable. send them a letter I am pretty sure they will re-consider your case and re open it.

Also, in the letter they say "Subsection 87.2(3) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations states that a foreign national is a member of the federal skilled trades class if:" tell them you didnt apply under skilled traded so this subsection is not applicable to your case. You have your AOR send it to them it should state CEC which should clear any doubts they have.
1) No mistake, the OP originally applied under the Federal Skilled Trades class and was properly evaluated (according to the rules). Unfortunately, his lawyer did not serve him well.

Because he was refused under the FST class, he is inquiring about eligibility under CEC.

2) Regulated occupations are not all the same, they have different rules that are specified in the NOC. Rules for engineers are different than for plumbers, so your experience does not really help him.

The OP has been provided with information on obtaining a license as a plumber in Ontario - it does not require years of experience, it requires passing an exam to obtain a provisional license. Without that provisional license in Ontario, his work experience cannot be counted as a plumber.

If the OP has absolutely no other options and doesn't mind gambling the application fee, he can always apply under CEC and see what happens. Might get lucky, you never know - CIC sometimes makes mistakes in the applicant's favor, too.

The OP can also take the exam, obtain a provisional license, and perhaps apply again under the FST class.
 

sanat.376

Star Member
Jan 8, 2014
51
0
jes_on
you are right on!!!.... absolutely right.MAN YOU ARE GOOD!!!
Those bunch of girls I thought knew everything about trades have screwed my life and career( almost) and turned out to be as intelligent as a rock sitting at one place and as pro-active as a pig rolling in dirt after feeding itself....my application for PR under FSTP came back in a month because my 1st so-called lawyer forgot to attach the FAMILY INFO FORM with it and so in a way I was lucky that it came back so fast...but i lost trust in this guy's workmanship and therefore took my case to another group of lawyers(turned out to be even bigger idiots and scammers) the main lawyer never saw me,not even once,and throughout the process of filing and waiting i was made to be dealt with her assistant,a rookie.I knew as much as her if not more. but i had paid a big amount and had nowhere to go so I kept going with the flow...when my application was denied...I was on CIC website for 32 hours WITHOUT A BREAK..sifted through all the pages that had FSTP or even the slightest mention of it...and came across one simple sentence hidden amongst paragraphs saying...''the authorization to work should have been obtained after positive confirmation from HRSDC''.......WHY COULDNT THOSE LAZY OVERPAID UNDESERVING INDIFFERENT GOOD FOR NOTHING ASSES find that sentence WHEN THEY WERE PAID THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR THAT.....that was my simple question to the main lawyer,angela, whom I met for the 1st time.OF course my rhetoric was formal,composed and always respectful.To which that INEPT STUPID WOMAN accused me of challenging her abilities....LMFAO!!...moreover another dumass took over(another newbie)
saying I was eligible for CEC without taking into account my expired legal status and the PCC from my home country which the consulate does not issue unless you have a status...and i do not have one......oh you should have been there in the interview!!!...

AND NOW I,WITHOUT A STATUS,AM LOOKING FOR AN EMPLOYER TO SPONSOR ME VIA LMO.HAVE 80 more days of grace period left in canada, after which I do not have any idea what I will do with my life.I have nothing to go back to.However i just received the approval of College of trades saying I can challenge the license exam after they passed my trade equivalency assessment...BUT I DONT KNOW HOW TO GO ABOUT IT. I M ALMOST DROWNED!!
 

sanat.376

Star Member
Jan 8, 2014
51
0
Hamad,
Thanks for replying buddy.Appreciate that.I had applied through FSTP but got rejected because i did not meet all the requirements,and now I can apply for CEC,which will be a gamble.however, i am out of status and therefore will not even get POLICE CLEARANCE FROM MY HOME COUNTRY, so stuck here as well.
 

ferna

Star Member
Jan 27, 2014
173
6
NOC Code......
2174
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-05-2013
AOR Received.
24-06-2013
Med's Request
24-01-2014
Med's Done....
27-01-2014
Passport Req..
18-02-2014
VISA ISSUED...
17-02-2014 (before I got the PPR!!)
LANDED..........
01-03-2014
I am so sorry Sanat. Lawyers are usually idiot, over paid people who don't give a shit about people's lives. They just tell you that you are qualified to take your money and that's that. I've never paid a penny to these people. These days that all information is online, just do a good research yourself and if have any question, just call or email CIC directly.