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Permanent Resident Status - PR Card Renewal if not meeting RO or Voluntarily give up PR Status and apply again as a skilled worker?

NittaDakota

Member
Apr 19, 2020
14
0
Hi Everyone!

I also would like to seek some advice on PR Status and PR Card renewal. I became a Permanent Resident in Canada in 2004 as a Skilled Worker, got my PR Card which expired in 2009. I have not met the RO, returned back to my home country for a phd research. After 10 years being outside of Canada, now I would like to return back and work as a researcher in Canada and also renew my permanent residency somehow.

Has anyone here had a similar situation where there was a solution to a situation like this?

I would appreciate all tips, hints, advice on what the best would be to do in such case.
 

scylla

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Hi Everyone!

I also would like to seek some advice on PR Status and PR Card renewal. I became a Permanent Resident in Canada in 2004 as a Skilled Worker, got my PR Card which expired in 2009. I have not met the RO, returned back to my home country for a phd research. After 10 years being outside of Canada, now I would like to return back and work as a researcher in Canada and also renew my permanent residency somehow.

Has anyone here had a similar situation where there was a solution to a situation like this?

I would appreciate all tips, hints, advice on what the best would be to do in such case.
At this point you realistically only have one option for traying to save your PR status. You would need to fly to the U.S. and the enter Canada through a U.S./Canada land border using a private vehicle and your expired PR card. When you enter Canada, you would have to hope that you are not reported by CBSA for failing to meet the residency requirement. If you are not reported, then you would remain in Canada for two straight years without leaving in order to be able to renew your PR card and keep your PR status. If you are reported when you enter Canada, then there's a very high chance you'll end up losing your PR status.

If you wanted to fly to Canada directly, you would need to obtain a PR Travel Document with H&C considerations. There's extremely little chance the PRTD will be approved, unless you have reasons for remaining outside of Canada that meet H&C criteria which you haven't mentioned here.
 
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canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
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If you are able to enter without getting reported you won’t qualify to sponsor a spouse or child until you are compliant. That would end up being 3+ year separation. Assume there is a chance you may have gotten married or had a child in the past 10+ years.
 
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NittaDakota

Member
Apr 19, 2020
14
0
At this point you realistically only have one option for traying to save your PR status. You would need to fly to the U.S. and the enter Canada through a U.S./Canada land border using a private vehicle and your expired PR card. When you enter Canada, you would have to hope that you are not reported by CBSA for failing to meet the residency requirement. If you are not reported, then you would remain in Canada for two straight years without leaving in order to be able to renew your PR card and keep your PR status. If you are reported when you enter Canada, then there's a very high chance you'll end up losing your PR status.

If you wanted to fly to Canada directly, you would need to obtain a PR Travel Document with H&C considerations. There's extremely little chance the PRTD will be approved, unless you have reasons for remaining outside of Canada that meet H&C criteria which you haven't mentioned here.
Thank you for replying Scylla! I try to look for advice in different forums here and similarly to you, others also mentioned the US land border entry. My home country is a visa exempt country, however for a few years now travellers need to have an ESTA, a Travel Authorization. It is possible to register for one online and then receive it. Which is fine, but the validity is only for 90 days. Does that mean that (if?!) I manage to cross the border then within 90 days I have to go back to the US and then leave the US and then go back again with another ESTA and do this every 90 days? I have no idea on this.

Also, read some information to voluntarily give up the PR as I didn't meet the obligations. Then two choices, either apply again for a PR status including the job offer I received or travel with an eTA and get a work permit. So, I'm stuck now with which would be the best option for me to choose.
 

NittaDakota

Member
Apr 19, 2020
14
0
If you are able to enter without getting reported you won’t qualify to sponsor a spouse or child until you are compliant. That would end up being 3+ year separation. Assume there is a chance you may have gotten married or had a child in the past 10+ years.

Thank you for your comment Canuck78! No, I don't have any children. I am divorced actually.
 
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Besram

Star Member
Jun 13, 2019
87
28
Thank you for replying Scylla! I try to look for advice in different forums here and similarly to you, others also mentioned the US land border entry. My home country is a visa exempt country, however for a few years now travellers need to have an ESTA, a Travel Authorization. It is possible to register for one online and then receive it. Which is fine, but the validity is only for 90 days. Does that mean that (if?!) I manage to cross the border then within 90 days I have to go back to the US and then leave the US and then go back again with another ESTA and do this every 90 days? I have no idea on this.

Also, read some information to voluntarily give up the PR as I didn't meet the obligations. Then two choices, either apply again for a PR status including the job offer I received or travel with an eTA and get a work permit. So, I'm stuck now with which would be the best option for me to choose.
ESTA is for the US only. It is issued for 2 years and allows you to enter the US multiple times for a 90 day period each. Once you have entered Canada, you need to stay there. There is no need to return to the US because entering Canada is also considered an exit from the US, so you will be complying with the ESTA conditions as long as you enter the US and exit to Canada within 90 days.

But you need to be aware that the US have introduced travel restriction on many countries due to COVID-19, plus the US/Canadian border is basically closed for non-essential travel at the moment.
 
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NittaDakota

Member
Apr 19, 2020
14
0
ESTA is for the US only. It is issued for 2 years and allows you to enter the US multiple times for a 90 day period each. Once you have entered Canada, you need to stay there. There is no need to return to the US because entering Canada is also considered an exit from the US, so you will be complying with the ESTA conditions as long as you enter the US and exit to Canada within 90 days.

But you need to be aware that the US have introduced travel restriction on many countries due to COVID-19, plus the US/Canadian border is basically closed for non-essential travel at the moment.

Thank you Besram for the answer! Yes, you are right, I completely left that out that once I cross the border that counts as an exit, it's so obvious! Silly me! :)

Also, about the covid crisis... the job offer will be issued sometimes in the fall once the covid crisis is over and travelling goes back to normal (hopefully it will go back to normal very soon). So in the meantime I am trying to find a solution that works.

So either trying a land bord entry with the ESTA document from the US border or I've read some postings at other forums here in regards of the very similar issue to mine from that other people had to voluntarily give up the PR status and then re-apply again as a Skilled Worker. I tried to look for information on the process currently available on the web, I saw that there is a Six-Selection Factor for Federal Skilled Worker Programme with a total score of 100. I have 93 out of the 100. Actually as the "Adaptability" is maximized to 10 and I have 15 there, I have to take 5 away, so the total of mine currently is 88.

I don't know what my chances are to cross the US land border and not being caught.... sounds a bit scary. And I also don't have any idea what my chances are to re-apply and be accepted after giving up the status.

Others also mentioned in different forums, that the best would be to have a consultation somehow immigration before voluntarily giving up the PR, explaining them the situation and also explain them why I would like to go back and be a permanent resident there with the skilled research job I have and the international experience I gained in the research during the years I was out of the country.

I don't know which option would be the best...really.... that's why I thought to ask people here about their experiences on such things....
 
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Besram

Star Member
Jun 13, 2019
87
28
Thank you Besram for the answer! Yes, you are right, I completely left that out that once I cross the border that counts as an exit.

Also, about the covid crisis... the job offer will be issued sometimes in the fall once the covid crisis is over and travelling goes back to normal (hopefully it will go back to normal very soon). So in the meantime I am trying to find a solution that works.

So either trying a land bord entry with the ESTA document from the US border or I've read some postings at other forums here in regards of the very similar issue to mine from that other people had to voluntarily give up the PR status and then re-apply again as a Skilled Worker. I tried to look for information on the process currently available on the web, I saw that there is a Six-Selection Factor for Federal Skilled Worker Programme with a total score of 100. I have 93 out of the 100. Actually as the "Adaptability" is maximized to 10 and I have 15 there, I have to take 5 away, so the total of mine currently is 88.

I don't know what my chances are to cross the US land border and not being caught.... sounds a bit scary. And I also don't have any idea what my chances are to re-apply and be accepted after giving up the status.

Others also mentioned in different forums, that the best would be to have a consultation somehow immigration before voluntarily giving up the PR, explaining them the situation and also explain them why I would like to go back and be a permanent resident there with the skilled research job I have and the international experience I gained in the research during the years I was out of the country.

I don't know which option would be the best...really.... that's why I thought to ask people here about their experiences on such things....

Some things to consider:

  • If you voluntarily give up your PR status, it will take at least six months from the time you apply until you obtain it again. Possibly much longer given the backlog that is accumulating due to the current situation. Plus there is now a ranking system in place which requires you to get an invitation before you can apply for PR. This means you may never get invited to apply again.
  • Trying to enter Canada and possibly getting reported may sound risky, but in fact they will need to let you in the country no matter what happens. They can however write a report and initiate the revocation of your PR status. But you get to appeal that, and appeals take a long time until they are heard - often 1 year and more. Note you will have full work rights while you are waiting for the outcome of your appeal
  • Should also note that success rates for appeals are very low (around 10%).
  • It is not recommended to try and make your case with IRCC before a formal enquiry into your PR status has been launched - this will only draw unnecessary attention to the fact that you are not in compliance. However, if you are questioned at the border you will be able to make your case and explain why you did not comply with RO, and if that is not successful, you will get another opportunity to explain yourself during the appeal process.
So if I was in your position, I would try entering Canada first (as described in the link I posted). If you do get reported, you can then decide what to do but the best option is probably to try and appeal the decision. It is at that point that you should obtain professional legal advice.
 

NittaDakota

Member
Apr 19, 2020
14
0
Dear All replying with very useful comments!

There's also another thing that has just popped into my mind. Even if the land border entry is successful, all my other card (Driver's licence, healthcard...etc) are all expired. Does this mean for 2 years I can't renew them? Is there a chance that while trying to renew eg. full G driver's licence, they will report me to immigration? I have (again) no idea on these renewal matters... The only information I found online is if the full G driver's licence is expired for over 10 years, it is considered as a new driver, which means like if the candidate was a teenager, has to start all driving skills all over again.

Does anyone have any experience with renewing such items (driver's licence, healthcard, sin card) while having an expired PR card?
 

NittaDakota

Member
Apr 19, 2020
14
0
Some things to consider:

  • If you voluntarily give up your PR status, it will take at least six months from the time you apply until you obtain it again. Possibly much longer given the backlog that is accumulating due to the current situation. Plus there is now a ranking system in place which requires you to get an invitation before you can apply for PR. This means you may never get invited to apply again.
  • Trying to enter Canada and possibly getting reported may sound risky, but in fact they will need to let you in the country no matter what happens. They can however write a report and initiate the revocation of your PR status. But you get to appeal that, and appeals take a long time until they are heard - often 1 year and more. Note you will have full work rights while you are waiting for the outcome of your appeal
  • Should also note that success rates for appeals are very low (around 10%).
  • It is not recommended to try and make your case with IRCC before a formal enquiry into your PR status has been launched - this will only draw unnecessary attention to the fact that you are not in compliance. However, if you are questioned at the border you will be able to make your case and explain why you did not comply with RO, and if that is not successful, you will get another opportunity to explain yourself during the appeal process.
So if I was in your position, I would try entering Canada first (as described in the link I posted). If you do get reported, you can then decide what to do but the best option is probably to try and appeal the decision. It is at that point that you should obtain professional legal advice.
Thank you so much, Besram! Very-very useful advice!

So it does seem that the best chance I have to keep my PR status is to try to enter land border (from the us) and remain in Canada for 2 years. Even if I get reported, I get a chance to explain why I was out of the country and have a slight chance after the hearing to keep my residency status. If I understood all the above well...

The only concern that still remains is what to do with all my expired documents (full G driver's licence, helath card, SIN). Even if I manage to enter throught he us land border and then start working in the job position I received the offer on, what should I do with all my expired documents? If I try to renew any of them will I be in the position to be reported to immigration by any of the authorities responsible for these documents? Or I should renew any of them until reaching the 2 years without leaving?
 

Besram

Star Member
Jun 13, 2019
87
28
Thank you so much, Besram! Very-very useful advice!

So it does seem that the best chance I have to keep my PR status is to try to enter land border (from the us) and remain in Canada for 2 years. Even if I get reported, I get a chance to explain why I was out of the country and have a slight chance after the hearing to keep my residency status. If I understood all the above well...

The only concern that still remains is what to do with all my expired documents (full G driver's licence, helath card, SIN). Even if I manage to enter throught he us land border and then start working in the job position I received the offer on, what should I do with all my expired documents? If I try to renew any of them will I be in the position to be reported to immigration by any of the authorities responsible for these documents? Or I should renew any of them until reaching the 2 years without leaving?
My understanding is (based on what has been posted in this forum multiple times) that only direct interactions with IRCC ought to be avoided (e.g. trying to sponsor a spouse or renewing the PR card before you are back in compliance). Other government authorities do not report you to IRCC and they wouldn't even know what your RO compliance is. Remember it is not illegal to not have a PR card.

That said, I understand in certain instances it may be more difficult to obtain certain documents without a PR card. This will depend heavily on the province and the document you are trying to get.

The most important one is probably your SIN. As far as I understand, this does not expire and is electronic so if you already have one from your previous time here, you should be good to go.
 

Besram

Star Member
Jun 13, 2019
87
28
Another thing to consider is whether your future job as a researcher will require you to travel internationally, eg going to conferences and the like?

Remember you will not be able to do this until you are back in compliance, I.e. you will need to remain in Canada for 2+ years before you can travel again.
 
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NittaDakota

Member
Apr 19, 2020
14
0
My understanding is (based on what has been posted in this forum multiple times) that only direct interactions with IRCC ought to be avoided (e.g. trying to sponsor a spouse or renewing the PR card before you are back in compliance). Other government authorities do not report you to IRCC and they wouldn't even know what your RO compliance is. Remember it is not illegal to not have a PR card.

That said, I understand in certain instances it may be more difficult to obtain certain documents without a PR card. This will depend heavily on the province and the document you are trying to get.

The most important one is probably your SIN. As far as I understand, this does not expire and is electronic so if you already have one from your previous time here, you should be good to go.

Thanks again, Besram! All these details are great help! I will check the SIN card I have from the past as well. I am planning to return to Ontario just like the first time when I landed as a PR. Also, I will try to find a lawyer who deals with such issues just in case something comes up or happens during land border entry from the us.

If anyone here knows a lawyer that he/she could recommend in relations to such cases, I would be happy to receive contact details.