My sister in law is planning on doing a soft landing, then moving back home and getting the Canadian company she freelances witg to list her as a contractor or employee. Her intent is to keep doing so until she has enough days for citizenship. At first I though it was nonsense due to her crazy plans but found that it was true she would be eligible to keep pr? So now one can be pr and then become citizen without even living in canada? Am I missing something here?
People can keep pr while employed abroad?
- Thread starter hamgha
- Start date
Her plan isn’t possible. She can do a short landing and return to work abroad but won’t qualify for citizenship and won’t qualify to PR card renewal either. She can retain her PR status while abroad even if she hasn’t met her RO until she eventually gets reported and then loses her PR status.
There is no working abroad for a Canadian business credit toward the citizenship physical presence requirement. (There is a very narrow time abroad in employ of Canadian or provincial government credit, but there are very few such positions that would qualify, most requiring Canadian citizenship already or do not qualify because they are considered "locally engaged" positions.)
There is a Residency Obligation credit for days working abroad for a Canadian business, but it is subject to strictly applied criteria. What you describe does not appear to be anywhere near close to meeting the criteria, so as @canuck78 similarly said, this employment will NOT qualify for credit toward meeting the PR Residency Obligation.
For in-depth and extensive discussion about the RO credit for time working abroad in the employ of a Canadian business, with links to primary sources (for many of the cases linked there, you need to copy and paste the url without the "<" and ">" brackets; . . . the links will only work without those brackets), see topic titled "Working Abroad RO credit, including "business trips;" an update" here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/working-abroad-ro-credit-including-business-trips-an-update.607559/
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She is never employed in Canada by that company. And even if she did, working remotely for a Canadian company do not make her eligible to maintain her RO or qualify for citizenship. If she wants to be a PR and eventually a citizen, move to Canada. Good thing is that she has a job already and she can continue to work for this Canadian company in Canada.
i dont know what she's doing and every plan she and her husband have made has been crazier than the other. i dont think she's fulltime with that guy probably contracting her out for cheap labor. and i thought she was talking out of her behind again until i saw this
You need to work full-time for:
- a Canadian business or organization, or
- the Canadian federal, provincial or territorial government
Helps to read things like this in context. What you quote comes after this:
Can my time abroad count toward my permanent resident status?
It depends on what you do and who you travel with. Your time outside of Canada may count toward your permanent resident status if you meet 1 of these conditions:
Two parts of this stand out:
"It depends . . . " and the rest of that FAQ answer barely addresses what it actually depends on.
". . . may count . . . "
The word "may" means it might or it might not. It for sure does NOT mean that working outside Canada for a Canadian business will definitely count.
For those interested, all this FAQ does is alert them that yes, days working outside Canada for a Canadian business could count, as in it is possible it will count, referencing the very minimum (such as "you need to work full-time for a Canadian business"). . . but that is ONLY if the business and the work outside Canada meets the criteria . . . without specifying the criteria itself.
Some will complain that IRCC's answer to this FAQ is inadequate. Yep. I agree. In some ways it is even misleading. Many read it and get the wrong message. At the very least it should reference other IRCC information about the Residency Obligation generally, and additionally particular information about qualifying for RO credit based on employment outside Canada. It could easily reference and link, for example, the appendix to either the guide to the application for a PR card or a PR Travel Document, which give significantly more detail about the RO, generally, and credit for time working abroad in particular.
Find the "Guide IMM 5445 - Applying for a permanent resident card (PR card)" here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5445-applying-permanent-resident-card-card-first-application-replacement-renewal-change-gender-identifier.html
Find the "Guide 5529 - Applying for a Permanent Resident Travel Document (PRTD)" here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5529-applying-permanent-resident-travel-document.html
Both of these include an appendix regarding the RO. For more detailed information about qualifying for the working-abroad credit see information in the appendix under heading "Time spent outside Canada" and "Situation A. Employment outside Canada."
Caution: even this information does not adequately cover the criteria that must be met to qualify for this credit. For example, it does not mention that the assignment abroad must be "temporary," even though that is a required element.
Overall: Some words have more impact than others. Whenever you read "may' in IRCC information, be aware that "may" does not mean it will, but means it might. And then the question is what makes the difference in when it will versus when it won't.
Again, for more in-depth discussion of this, see topic titled "Working Abroad RO credit, including "business trips;" an update" here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/working-abroad-ro-credit-including-business-trips-an-update.607559/
General rule: pr work for Canadian government or great Canadian company at their foreign branch full time counts. Don't think other kind of employment should work.
Not exactly. This really is a tricky credit to qualify for. And yeah, blame IRCC for failing to provide clear information about this credit.
For a PR employed by a Canadian business working abroad, no matter how definitively the business is Canadian, the work abroad must be pursuant to a temporary assignment, and this means (among other things) that the PR is expected to return to a position IN Canada. While there have been exceptions, generally this also means the PR needed to be employed and working IN Canada for that Canadian business, BEFORE being assigned to a temporary position abroad.
Likewise for a PR employed by the Canadian government working abroad, the work abroad must be pursuant to a temporary assignment.
Note, for example, Canadian businesses and Canadian government entities (such as embassies) operating in locations outside Canada often employ "locally engaged" personnel. Time abroad in this employment will NOT qualify for credit toward the PR Residency Obligation.
While there are a lot of situations for which this credit will be given, the irony is that for many if not the majority of these the circumstances are often such that the PR will not need the credit. It may be overstating things a bit to say that generally a PR who needs the working-abroad-credit probably does not qualify for it . . . or conversely that a PR who qualifies for the working-abroad-credit probably does not need it.
But, it is not overstating things to say that generally a PR specifically employed to work in a position at a location outside Canada will NOT qualify for the credit.
In contrast, where the employer meets the applicable criteria, a PR who is employed to work at a location IN Canada, who is then temporarily assigned to work at a location outside Canada, retaining their position IN Canada, will generally qualify for the credit. The thing is, such PRs will typically be well enough established and spending enough time in Canada, if not basically settled and living here, to otherwise meet the RO anyway.
It is unfortunate that IRCC fails to clearly communicate the practical nature and scope of this credit. It has been a major pitfall for many, many PRs.
hello,
i know this is late post but I would like to inquire as well regarding this topic:
I am a PR, I have been away from Canada since 2018. I have not met my RO for almost 5 years now. My PR card is expired so I cannot go back to Canada yet until I get a Travel document. However, I am employed in a Canadian company but how can I prove that? My salary is not Canadian standard but local Philippine salary. would that count?
i know this is late post but I would like to inquire as well regarding this topic:
I am a PR, I have been away from Canada since 2018. I have not met my RO for almost 5 years now. My PR card is expired so I cannot go back to Canada yet until I get a Travel document. However, I am employed in a Canadian company but how can I prove that? My salary is not Canadian standard but local Philippine salary. would that count?
Were you hired In Canada and transferred temporarily to the Philippines? Do you have a job waiting for you with the same company when you return to Canada?
yes same company. If I go back to Canada, I'm still hired by the same company.
To give you a background of this company:
It is a church IN CANADA that has orphanage here in the Philippines since 2000. The orphanage is registered as a Canadian organization and all documents are legal in Canada. The church is current managed by the company in Canada.
I went to Canada in 2014 as landed immigrant under Federal Skilled Worker specifically "religious worker" but went back and forth because I work mainly in the orphanage here in PH. I was assigned to help here in PH. My last trip to Canada is 2018 which is only 1 month.
How do I prove that I have been working in this orphanage in the Philippines?
If that's the case, you shouldn't have issues applying for a PRTD to return. You should be able to apply for a new PR card once in Canada using the employed by a Canadian company while abroad. An assignment letter from your employer detailing your position and employment opportunities once your contract ends in Canada should suffice as proof.
This may or may not work out for you. There are a number of things you must prove in order to be able to count your time working outside of Canada towards the residency obligation, including that the assignment outside of Canada is temporary. You can read through the details here on what evidence IRCC expects to see in order for you to be able to count this time towards PR: https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ircc/migration/ircc/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf
Do my employer pay me Canadian salary or PH salary? I need to know which tax documents should I show. Thanks in advance.
This isn't relevant to being able to count the time outside of Canada. Please spend time reviewing the information in the link since this outlines what IRCC will be expecting to see.