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Non-resident tax return will affect PR card renewal?

bricksonly

Star Member
Mar 18, 2018
192
5
My family moved to USA in 2016, as we lived in Canada for 8 months of 2016, we still file Canada tax return. For 2017, we only be in Canada for 10 days for vacation and get 0 income from Canada. My wife is citizen and will file as non-resident, but I need to renew PR card this year, if I also file non-resident, does IRCC will not issue me the new card or at least ,makes my application a second review?

2017 will be the only one I have no idea how to file tax. For the rest year, as my family is in Canada, I always file tax as resident normally. Now in USA, as my status is TD visa which cannot work in USA (no income) and my days in USA is not enough to have to file tax return. I have some consulting income from my original country but not too much though and be taxed there before in my pocket.

We keep our home and didnt rent it. Can I still use our home's address as our residence in Canada for PR card renewal? And how about our address in USA? If I use address in USA, that means 100% my application will be rejected because IRCC won't deal with any case outside Canada?

Many thanks!
 

Alurra71

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Oct 5, 2012
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Do not lie to IRCC and tell them you are living in Canada when in fact you are living in the USA. If your wife is a citizen then you can claim your time outside of Canada as completed time to meet your RO. They will not send your PR card to an address outside of Canada. You must file your application from within Canada. Be prepared to have multiple supporting documents about your wife and yourself living together outside of the country to verify you still qualify.
 

Rob_TO

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My family moved to USA in 2016, as we lived in Canada for 8 months of 2016, we still file Canada tax return. For 2017, we only be in Canada for 10 days for vacation and get 0 income from Canada. My wife is citizen and will file as non-resident, but I need to renew PR card this year, if I also file non-resident, does IRCC will not issue me the new card or at least ,makes my application a second review?

2017 will be the only one I have no idea how to file tax. For the rest year, as my family is in Canada, I always file tax as resident normally. Now in USA, as my status is TD visa which cannot work in USA (no income) and my days in USA is not enough to have to file tax return. I have some consulting income from my original country but not too much though and be taxed there before in my pocket.

We keep our home and didnt rent it. Can I still use our home's address as our residence in Canada for PR card renewal? And how about our address in USA? If I use address in USA, that means 100% my application will be rejected because IRCC won't deal with any case outside Canada?

Many thanks!
Sounds like you still have significant ties to Canada, so you and your wife may likely be a deemed/factual resident for tax purposes even if you don't physically live in Canada. In this case you would need to file tax return and pay necessary Canadian tax on your US income. You better speak to an accountant about this.
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/technical-information/income-tax/income-tax-folios-index/series-5-international-residency/folio-1-residency/income-tax-folio-s5-f1-c1-determining-individual-s-residence-status.html

You must use your USA as your residential address for PR card renewal, it that's where you're physically living. Others have had PR cards renewed successfully while not living in Canada, although IRCC would ask you to come pick up card in person and won't mail it. So they may process it (although no guarantee).
 

bricksonly

Star Member
Mar 18, 2018
192
5
I called IRCC once and they said it's up to me. I can go back Canada, live in my house, and send the application, right? I can change my address back to Canada from the day I live in only if my residency intention changes at that point. But I really forget to clear if my actual permanent address is in USA and submit application from a Canadian address (our own, every document support it, ownership, property tax, utillies bill, NOA, driver license), what will happen. Can I do that? if I just go back for 3 month and file the application from my Canadian address?
 

Kittyz

Full Member
Jan 8, 2013
43
2
I called IRCC once and they said it's up to me. I can go back Canada, live in my house, and send the application, right? I can change my address back to Canada from the day I live in only if my residency intention changes at that point. But I really forget to clear if my actual permanent address is in USA and submit application from a Canadian address (our own, every document support it, ownership, property tax, utillies bill, NOA, driver license), what will happen. Can I do that? if I just go back for 3 month and file the application from my Canadian address?
I am kind of in similar situation, came across this post. Can you pls share your experience?
 

Kittyz

Full Member
Jan 8, 2013
43
2
I called IRCC once and they said it's up to me. I can go back Canada, live in my house, and send the application, right? I can change my address back to Canada from the day I live in only if my residency intention changes at that point. But I really forget to clear if my actual permanent address is in USA and submit application from a Canadian address (our own, every document support it, ownership, property tax, utillies bill, NOA, driver license), what will happen. Can I do that? if I just go back for 3 month and file the application from my Canadian address?
Hi

Could you please share your experience? Really appreciate.

I have met my RO, and moved with my family to US... My PR is up for renewal in less than a year, and since i spend most of the time in US in 2019, i am planning to file my taxes as non-resident.

Can i use US address on my PR renewal application? Being non-resident have any impact on renewal of PR?

Thanks.
 

devnill

Hero Member
Dec 5, 2015
255
40
Hi

Could you please share your experience? Really appreciate.

I have met my RO, and moved with my family to US... My PR is up for renewal in less than a year, and since i spend most of the time in US in 2019, i am planning to file my taxes as non-resident.

Can i use US address on my PR renewal application? Being non-resident have any impact on renewal of PR?

Thanks.
Your PR is not up for renewal - your PR card is.

You cannot apply for a PR card from outside Canada - if you need to travel to Canada and your PR card has expired then you either need to cross at a land border or apply for PRTD.
 

Kittyz

Full Member
Jan 8, 2013
43
2
Your PR is not up for renewal - your PR card is.

You cannot apply for a PR card from outside Canada - if you need to travel to Canada and your PR card has expired then you either need to cross at a land border or apply for PRTD.
Thanks for your response.

Does that mean, i need to relocate with my family from US to Canada? to provide Canadian address for PR card renewal? I have a home in Canada, which i have rented out. Is it possible to use either my rental home or any of my friend address in Canada only for the sake of PR card renewal application?

I have met PR RO (Close to 1000 days physically present in the last 4 years), so looking for information if i could renew my PR card without relocating to Canada.
 

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
5,770
1,994
Thanks for your response.

Does that mean, i need to relocate with my family from US to Canada? to provide Canadian address for PR card renewal? I have a home in Canada, which i have rented out. Is it possible to use either my rental home or any of my friend address in Canada only for the sake of PR card renewal application?

I have met PR RO (Close to 1000 days physically present in the last 4 years), so looking for information if i could renew my PR card without relocating to Canada.
If you have a home in Canada, you will still be deemed a resident for tax purposes. Get yourself a good tax lawyer.

Significant residential ties to Canada include:
 

Kittyz

Full Member
Jan 8, 2013
43
2
If you have a home in Canada, you will still be deemed a resident for tax purposes. Get yourself a good tax lawyer.
It is my understanding, that if i am resident in US for Tax purpose, and because of Tax treaty, i would be non-resident in Canada.
Please let me know if i am incorrect.

Thanks.
 

PMM

VIP Member
Jun 30, 2005
24,649
1,575
Hi

It is my understanding, that if i am resident in US for Tax purpose, and because of Tax treaty, i would be non-resident in Canada.
Please let me know if i am incorrect.

Thanks.
1. You can be a tax resident in both countries. If you still have attachments to Canada, while living in the US. You file a US tax return and file a Canadian tax return, under the tax treaty, some of the amounts you pay in the US are a credit on your Canadian return
 

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
5,770
1,994
Property is considered a significant tie to Canada. Regardless of where you live, you would likely be deemed a resident for tax purposes because of that.
Also keep in mind if you are a tax resident in the US, you will continue being a tax resident in the US where ever you live in the future. You need to take steps to withdraw your US residence if you ever move to Canada or another country to stop being a tax resident of the US or you have to continue to report annually.

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/individuals-leaving-entering-canada-non-residents/non-residents-canada.html#rsdncstts
 
Last edited:

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,510
1,623
It is my understanding, that if i am resident in US for Tax purpose, and because of Tax treaty, i would be non-resident in Canada.
Please let me know if i am incorrect.

Thanks.
Hi
1. You can be a tax resident in both countries. If you still have attachments to Canada, while living in the US. You file a US tax return and file a Canadian tax return, under the tax treaty, some of the amounts you pay in the US are a credit on your Canadian return
The operative word here is "can." BUT NOT USUALLY, not even if the individual has extensive ties in both countries. Not even if the individual otherwise has ties in Canada which, but for being a resident of the U.S. for tax purposes, would deem them a resident of Canada.

That is, HOWEVER, usually (not always), if a person is a resident for tax purposes of the U.S., that person GENERALLY is NOT a resident for tax purposes of Canada (under the U.S./Canada tax treaty AND respective tax rules for both countries), notwithstanding ties that might otherwise mean they were.

Since this is not universally true, as in there may be circumstances otherwise, it is correct to say that a person "can" be a tax resident in both countries, but again that is NOT usually so.

The exceptions are complicated.

This is separate and apart from requirements to file a return. This is separate and apart from what income needs to be reported in the respective tax returns, or how to report it, assuming the individual needs to or otherwise is filing a non-resident return in Canada. And this is separate and apart from what credits are available in the respective tax returns. And especially separate and apart from what taxes must be paid on what sources of income.

Even though ultimately all those things are controlled by the tax treaty, one needs to follow the respective country's rules. (Note, no need to know what the tax treaty provides; the policies, practices, and tax filing rules, and tax paying rules, for each respective country fully implement the treaty's provisions; so one mostly needs to follow the information provided by the respective agencies, the IRS and CRA. But it can be complicated.)

It can get more complicated when the taxpayer has sources of income in both countries, particularly if there is self-employment, corporate, or investment income. (Been there. Done that. Pain in the shadows.)

And it gets more complicated when dealing with taxes other than income tax, like FICA for the U.S. or CPP for Canada. Special rules cover these. Special forms need to be obtained and filed.

Also keep in mind if you are a tax resident in the US, you will continue being a tax resident in the US where ever you live in the future. You need to take steps to withdraw your US residence if you ever move to Canada or another country to stop being a tax resident of the US or you have to continue to report annually.
It is not clear what you mean. It is NOT generally true that "if you are a tax resident in the US, you will continue being a tax resident in the US where ever you live in the future."

The U.S. has more extensive and strict rules for who must file a U.S. tax return even if they do not live in the U.S. And the U.S. does not distinguish who is a resident for tax purposes in the same way that Canada does. So here too this can get complicated.

Here too, been there, done that, many decades of employment, partnerships, self-employment in the U.S., long enough to be fully vested in the U.S. Social Security system (even though I left the U.S. two decades ago . . . as noted before, I am an OLD man) . . . but of course notwithstanding very few residential ties in the U.S. for nearly two decades, I still must file a U.S. return. Every fffng year. FBAR as well. But I am NOT considered a resident of the U.S. for tax purposes. U.S. citizens, for example, can be a NON-resident of the U.S. for tax purposes even if they are NOT a bona fide resident of another country. (A de facto expat, based on lack of both ties and presence in the U.S. . . . last I recall, it required being outside the U.S. for at least 335 days of the tax year. Been there, done that as well. Before I became a Canadian.)

Much easier to qualify as a non-resident of the U.S. for tax purposes if one is a bona fide resident of another country, and even more so a country with a tax treaty with the U.S., like Canada.

One big difference, for example, is that an American ex-pat who is not a bona fide resident of another country will still have to pay U.S. FICA and related taxes (for self-employment income for example), but is otherwise entitled to the credit against income taxes, nearly a hundred grand or so, for being a NON-resident of the U.S. for tax purposes. The ex-pat who is a bona fide resident of Canada can get additional credits and also the form effectively releasing them from paying U.S. FICA and related taxes.

All the above is offered with a huge caveat: tax filing, reporting, and payment obligations can be very complicated. The details matter. And there are many, many details to consider. Even the experts are often no where near expert enough, especially when it comes to dealing with obligations for multiple countries. This is NOT an appropriate venue for obtaining advice about filing tax returns, not even as to who must file a return, let alone what kind of return, what forms or schedules must be submitted, let alone what information is required, let alone what taxes must be paid or what credits are available.

Nonetheless, Overall:

Generally a person who is a bona fide resident for tax purposes of the U.S. or Canada is a NON-resident of the other country for tax purposes. Separate rules govern who must nonetheless file a tax return in the respective countries.

Persons who were tax residents in the U.S. in the past, even citizens, will NOT continue to be a resident of the U.S. for tax purposes if they are in fact a bona fide resident, for tax purposes, of Canada. This extends beyond this, even for expats who are not a bona fide resident of any other country (meeting the criteria), but it is clear cut in the case of a former U.S. resident who is a bona fide resident, for tax purposes, of Canada (what constitutes "bona fide" includes the requirement to actually file a Canadian tax return).
 

Kittyz

Full Member
Jan 8, 2013
43
2
The operative word here is "can." BUT NOT USUALLY, not even if the individual has extensive ties in both countries. Not even if the individual otherwise has ties in Canada which, but for being a resident of the U.S. for tax purposes, would deem them a resident of Canada.

That is, HOWEVER, usually (not always), if a person is a resident for tax purposes of the U.S., that person GENERALLY is NOT a resident for tax purposes of Canada (under the U.S./Canada tax treaty AND respective tax rules for both countries), notwithstanding ties that might otherwise mean they were.

Since this is not universally true, as in there may be circumstances otherwise, it is correct to say that a person "can" be a tax resident in both countries, but again that is NOT usually so.

The exceptions are complicated.

This is separate and apart from requirements to file a return. This is separate and apart from what income needs to be reported in the respective tax returns, or how to report it, assuming the individual needs to or otherwise is filing a non-resident return in Canada. And this is separate and apart from what credits are available in the respective tax returns. And especially separate and apart from what taxes must be paid on what sources of income.

Even though ultimately all those things are controlled by the tax treaty, one needs to follow the respective country's rules. (Note, no need to know what the tax treaty provides; the policies, practices, and tax filing rules, and tax paying rules, for each respective country fully implement the treaty's provisions; so one mostly needs to follow the information provided by the respective agencies, the IRS and CRA. But it can be complicated.)

It can get more complicated when the taxpayer has sources of income in both countries, particularly if there is self-employment, corporate, or investment income. (Been there. Done that. Pain in the shadows.)

And it gets more complicated when dealing with taxes other than income tax, like FICA for the U.S. or CPP for Canada. Special rules cover these. Special forms need to be obtained and filed.



It is not clear what you mean. It is NOT generally true that "if you are a tax resident in the US, you will continue being a tax resident in the US where ever you live in the future."

The U.S. has more extensive and strict rules for who must file a U.S. tax return even if they do not live in the U.S. And the U.S. does not distinguish who is a resident for tax purposes in the same way that Canada does. So here too this can get complicated.

Here too, been there, done that, many decades of employment, partnerships, self-employment in the U.S., long enough to be fully vested in the U.S. Social Security system (even though I left the U.S. two decades ago . . . as noted before, I am an OLD man) . . . but of course notwithstanding very few residential ties in the U.S. for nearly two decades, I still must file a U.S. return. Every fffng year. FBAR as well. But I am NOT considered a resident of the U.S. for tax purposes. U.S. citizens, for example, can be a NON-resident of the U.S. for tax purposes even if they are NOT a bona fide resident of another country. (A de facto expat, based on lack of both ties and presence in the U.S. . . . last I recall, it required being outside the U.S. for at least 335 days of the tax year. Been there, done that as well. Before I became a Canadian.)

Much easier to qualify as a non-resident of the U.S. for tax purposes if one is a bona fide resident of another country, and even more so a country with a tax treaty with the U.S., like Canada.

One big difference, for example, is that an American ex-pat who is not a bona fide resident of another country will still have to pay U.S. FICA and related taxes (for self-employment income for example), but is otherwise entitled to the credit against income taxes, nearly a hundred grand or so, for being a NON-resident of the U.S. for tax purposes. The ex-pat who is a bona fide resident of Canada can get additional credits and also the form effectively releasing them from paying U.S. FICA and related taxes.

All the above is offered with a huge caveat: tax filing, reporting, and payment obligations can be very complicated. The details matter. And there are many, many details to consider. Even the experts are often no where near expert enough, especially when it comes to dealing with obligations for multiple countries. This is NOT an appropriate venue for obtaining advice about filing tax returns, not even as to who must file a return, let alone what kind of return, what forms or schedules must be submitted, let alone what information is required, let alone what taxes must be paid or what credits are available.

Nonetheless, Overall:

Generally a person who is a bona fide resident for tax purposes of the U.S. or Canada is a NON-resident of the other country for tax purposes. Separate rules govern who must nonetheless file a tax return in the respective countries.

Persons who were tax residents in the U.S. in the past, even citizens, will NOT continue to be a resident of the U.S. for tax purposes if they are in fact a bona fide resident, for tax purposes, of Canada. This extends beyond this, even for expats who are not a bona fide resident of any other country (meeting the criteria), but it is clear cut in the case of a former U.S. resident who is a bona fide resident, for tax purposes, of Canada (what constitutes "bona fide" includes the requirement to actually file a Canadian tax return).
Hi

Thanks all for your time and response.

I was in Canada till April 2019, and moved with my family to US since then. On the Income, i have T4 (till April 2019), and the rental income (changing my principal residence to rental home from May onwards).

Other than above, i don't have any other income in Canada.

My initial understanding was, that i need to file taxes in both US and Canada (Pay taxes first in US, and with respect to tax brackets in Canada, pay the rest in Canada).

I have reached out to Tax professionals to file my returns in Canada, and even though i have my rental home in Canada, which could be a significant primary ties to Canada, they still mentioned about filing Departure tax in Canada (as an emigrant) for 2019, and continue to be non-resident in Canada for Tax purpose in the subsequent years, since my plan to be in US for next 2-4 years.

And while reviewing other details, i came across below info from CRA website,
(https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/individuals-leaving-entering-canada-non-residents/leaving-canada-emigrants.html)

- If you leave Canada and keep residential ties in Canada, you are usually considered a factual resident, and not an emigrant. However, if you are also considered to be a resident of another country with which Canada has a tax treaty, you may be considered a deemed non-resident. Deemed non-residents are subject to the same rules as emigrants.


I would believe, that i qualify as deemed non-residents, and hence non-resident in Canada for Tax purposes.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,510
1,623
I was in Canada till April 2019, and moved with my family to US since then. On the Income, i have T4 (till April 2019), and the rental income (changing my principal residence to rental home from May onwards).

Other than above, i don't have any other income in Canada.
This is clearly enough to meet the requirements for filing a Canadian tax return.

I would believe, that i qualify as deemed non-residents, and hence non-resident in Canada for Tax purposes.
As I previously observed: GENERALLY a person who is a bona fide resident for tax purposes of the U.S. or Canada is a NON-resident of the other country for tax purposes.

"Generally" does not mean always or everyone. This forum is NOT an appropriate venue for obtaining advice as to how any particular individual should file a tax return, or even who should when. It is far too complex and involves way too many personal details.

Non-residents for tax purposes can be required to file a tax return. For 2019, for example, it is clear you need to file a Canadian return since you have Canadian source income. Having to file a Canadian return does not make the person a resident for tax purposes.

As I have observed, separate rules govern who must nonetheless file a tax return in the respective countries. And of course what must be reported, including which forms and schedules must be filed, is also governed by each country's particular rules. Likewise what forms or schedules MAY be filed for the purpose of availing oneself of this or that credit or deduction. So just whether the tax-filer is a resident or non-resident for tax purposes only begins to address what the tax-filer is required to file, required to pay, or is entitled to in the way of credits, deductions, or offsets. There is a lot more to it than just determining if one is a resident for tax purposes.

Sometimes it is not complicated. Many times it is complicated. But at NO time is this forum a good place to get information about this stuff.

In the meantime, not all tax professionals are created equal. Of course that is true for lawyers and other professionals, but it is especially true for tax professionals. More than a few rely on electronic programs and are not particularly well-informed otherwise. Especially in respect to situations complicated by residence or employment in multiple countries in a given tax year.

In any event, other than the obligation to comply with the law, tax filing questions have very little relevance to immigration status matters. As long as one complies with the tax laws, neither PR status nor eligibility for citizenship depend on one's tax filing status or even on having filed a Canadian tax return (the tax filing requirement for citizenship, for example, does not require filing a tax return, it only requires complying with the tax filing rules for three out of five years, and years in which a person can truthfully report he or she was not obligated to file a return count as a year in compliance even if the individual does not file a Canadian tax return for that year).

Sure, many immigrants have all sorts of tax questions related to the circumstances attendant their activities, but those are tax questions not immigration issues. Far better to turn to appropriate, reliable tax information sources than a forum that is not much about taxes.

. . . . since my plan to be in US for next 2-4 years
Unless your application for citizenship succeeds and you become a Canadian citizen in time, REMEMBER that you must continue to comply with the PR Residency Obligation in the meantime. If you are absent from Canada for three years within the preceding five years (not counting days prior to landing), that will be a breach of the RO, which can preclude you from becoming a citizen and result in the loss of your PR status.