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New PRs, what is ETA's current status?

neorol

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Many new PR's need to travel before they get their PR cards mailed. Since getting a PRTD is really time consuming, these travels cause a lot of headaches. When does CIC invalidate pre existing ETAs?

PRs who landed recently (1-3 months ago), could you please check your ETA's current status?

Thanks a lot!
 

Rob_TO

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neorol said:
Many new PR's need to travel before they get their PR cards mailed. Since getting a PRTD is really time consuming, these travels cause a lot of headaches. When does CIC invalidate pre existing ETAs?

PRs who landed recently (1-3 months ago), could you please check your ETA's current status?

Thanks a lot!
The status of eTA is not relevant if airline can see your PR status on check-in so demands a PR card or PR TD to allow boarding.

Short answer is nobody knows as there's been no reports yet of a new PR attempting to travel on eTA.
Discussion here: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/any-new-prs-flown-to-canada-with-eta-but-no-pr-card-t475436.0.html
 

neorol

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Rob_TO said:
The status of eTA is not relevant if airline can see your PR status on check-in so demands a PR card or PR TD to allow boarding.

Short answer is nobody knows as there's been no reports yet of a new PR attempting to travel on eTA.
Discussion here: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/any-new-prs-flown-to-canada-with-eta-but-no-pr-card-t475436.0.html
Thank you for the information!

However, collecting some information about ETA's status could be still interesting. For example, in my country last time they had no idea about Canadian rules. The lady has never seen a work permit, and asked me what that document was. I assume if ETA is still valid, many would be able to board the flight. Of course, there is no guarantee for that.
 

andrews65

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I'm not sure the airline can see eTA status at checkin, or even necessarily know what an eTA is. From what I have read it seems that CBSA's IAPI system simply returns a board/no board indicator to the airline's check in system. How IAPI determines which to send is not clear.
 

dpenabill

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neorol said:
Many new PR's need to travel before they get their PR cards mailed. Since getting a PRTD is really time consuming, these travels cause a lot of headaches. When does CIC invalidate pre existing ETAs?

PRs who landed recently (1-3 months ago), could you please check your ETA's current status?

Thanks a lot!
neorol said:
Thank you for the information!

However, collecting some information about ETA's status could be still interesting. For example, in my country last time they had no idea about Canadian rules. The lady has never seen a work permit, and asked me what that document was. I assume if ETA is still valid, many would be able to board the flight. Of course, there is no guarantee for that.
I agree it would be useful to know whether a new PR can still use a visa-exempt passport, to board a flight to Canada, if prior to becoming a PR that individual obtained eTA using that visa-exempt passport.

My guess is yes. However, this is just a guess.

There is an online tool for checking eTA status. This can be reached by a link at:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1192&top=16

The user can select "I have an approved eTA. I want to consult my file."

It is only practical to make a query for someone who has been granted eTA or who has an application for eTA pending.

I do not know what the output looks like. My guess is that there is simply a confirmation eTA is valid, or is not valid, for the query: "I have an approved eTA. I want to consult my file."

I also suppose that making the query may in itself trigger revalidation, which could result in the cancellation of eTA for someone who has, since obtaining eTA, acquired PR status.

For a PR who obtained eTA prior to landing, this could resolve the question . . . and of course, if anyone does use this tool, please share the results with us here.


Otherwise, this can be partially tested by any PR who obtained eTA prior to becoming a PR and who is still using the same visa-exempt passport. In particular, for a PR who has already obtained a PR card, such a PR could present his or her eTA approved visa-exempt passport to an airline when checking-in for a flight to Canada. Again, my guess is this person will be issued a boarding pass.

If in contrast, however, the airline responds indicating there is a problem, that PR could then produce his or her PR card, saying something like "do I need to show my [PR card]?"

Of course a few anecdotal reports will not definitively answer the question, but it would offer some indication. (Except in the most straight-forward transactions, what can be discerned from anecdotal reports is severely hampered by how few there are, and thus how much they may not be representative, and the fact that most of the anecdotal reports suffer from vagueness or confusion, including many in this context which tend to be reports about the identity document check just before boarding rather than the more important interaction attendant check-in and being issued a boarding pass.)


In addition to what I have previously discussed about this, in some depth here:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/waiting-for-pr-travelling-into-canada-t474477.0.html
there is further discussion including additional references and links here:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/any-new-prs-flown-to-canada-with-eta-but-no-pr-card-t475436.0.html


andrews65 said:
I'm not sure the airline can see eTA status at checkin, or even necessarily know what an eTA is. From what I have read it seems that CBSA's IAPI system simply returns a board/no board indicator to the airline's check in system. How IAPI determines which to send is not clear.
I agree. Discussed in your other topic. But yes, the IAPI system gives a Board or No-board response. The IAPI system is screening almost all passengers for advance authorization to enter Canada, not just visa-exempt passengers with eTA. The IAPI system is based on recognizing, as having authorization to enter Canada, the combination of the traveler's personal information (API: name, DoB, nationality, gender) and the id number for the specific Travel Document with which that individual obtained authorization to enter Canada.

In reviewing scores of sources (many linked in your other topic), I have found no indication that the IAPI system will respond other than "Board or No-board."

That said, there are procedures for CBSA to send a follow-up message to the airline which can override the board or no-board message sent by IAPI. My guess is these are almost always to override a board message based on an adverse information alert in the system. But those messages can, obviously, be more detailed, perhaps even as to status.



Note: it warrants noting that many seem to conflate, even confuse, important distinctions between eTA and IAPI, as well as blurring distinctions between check-in clearance (which determines if a boarding pass will be issued) and final pre-boarding screening (which verifies the passenger is the same person who checked-in, was issued the boarding pass, and is still carrying the Travel Document used for check-in), noting that in particular the latter often gets confused in anecdotal reports about personal experience, making it rather difficult to sort reliable information about airline clearance procedures from those accounts.
 

andrews65

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I landed 8 days ago and my eTA status query returns:

Application Status: Closed
A final decision has been reached: Approved
eTA number: xxxxxxxx
expiry date: 2021/11/28
and further text: "When you travel to Canada you will need to present the passport you used to apply for your eTA to the airline check-in staff. They will use your passport details to verify your eTA status in the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) database. An eTA is linked to your passport. It is not a physical document.
An eTA is valid for up to five years or until your passport expires, whichever comes first.
Visitors to Canada are responsible for the cost of any healthcare services they require. Before you come to Canada, you should get health insurance."

I landed at an inland IRCC office, not at a border CBSA facility - i wonder if that has made a difference to the cancellation or not of my eTA.

One further point, dpendabill you mention "id number for the specific Travel Document with which that individual obtained authorization to enter Canada". I think its documents (plural) in the case of PRs with a PR card. My assumption is that for the system to work as CSBA intended the passport and PR card numbers need to be captured at checkin and submitted to IAPI. If a PR card number is not submitted, and IAPI's back end systems say the traveller is a PR and has no PRTD, then its "do not board". But this just an educated guess. I too would be interested in what happens if any PR with an eTA showing as valid tries this, knowing they can always say "oops sorry forgot to show you my PR card" if they are initially given a "do not board".
 

Rob_TO

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andrews65 said:
I landed at an inland IRCC office, not at a border CBSA facility - i wonder if that has made a difference to the cancellation or not of my eTA.
I don't think this matters, if there is no automated process in place to cancel eTAs after becoming a PR.
For regular TRVs, study permits, etc, the officer who does the PR landing (whether inland or outland) is supposed to physically remove these paper documents from your passport. However in many cases, they don't do this and as a result PRs can continue to travel on those documents without a PR card.

Since eTA does not have any physical component, there is nothing for the landing officer to remove. And from what I've heard, there is no process in place that requires them to search for an existing eTA and cancel it if one exists.

That being said, there are definite grounds to cancel an eTA after one becomes a PR, simply due to the fact that PRs are not supposed to be eligible to apply for, hold or travel on eTAs. If a new PR's eTA was suddenly cancelled, nobody would be surprised. So even if there is no current process, there may be one introduced at any time after someone decides they need to close this loophole (if indeed it's even possible today as I've yet to see a single anecdotal report).
 

methyl

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andrews65 said:
If a PR card number is not submitted, and IAPI's back end systems say the traveller is a PR and has no PRTD, then its "do not board". But this just an educated guess.
PR status is linked to passport same way that ETA is. Airlines are not asking people to show their ETAs, because the only thing ETA affects is whether board/no board is returned. I doubt PR cards are being scanned by airlines around the world, as much as we like to think of our country as important, the reality is that there are >200 countries around the world. The guidelines that were posted state exactly that the information being collected and sent to IAPI system is nothing beyond what is already collected by carriers for their own business purposes.
 

HighCeiling

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I landed mid January and my Eta is still valid till 2021. The border agent said I could travel back from the UK to Canada as I am from a Visa Exempt country and have eta, CIC said I need the PR Card or a PRTD and the airline had no real clue.
 

Rob_TO

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HighCeiling said:
CIC said I need the PR Card or a PRTD
Should note CIC has always said this, even long before eTA requirement existed.
 

andrews65

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HighCeiling said:
I landed mid January and my Eta is still valid till 2021. The border agent said I could travel back from the UK to Canada as I am from a Visa Exempt country and have eta, CIC said I need the PR Card or a PRTD and the airline had no real clue.
Have you flown from the UK to Canada since landing? Or are you planning to any time soon? Did/will you do so with/without PR card/PRTD? Just looking for clues as to what is/isn't enforced, since I have a UK to Canada flight booked for a date its probable I won't yet have my PR card, with insufficient time in the UK to obtain a PRTD.
 

methyl

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Rob_TO said:
Should note CIC has always said this, even long before eTA requirement existed.
CIC has to justify it's own self-importance.

There is no logical sense in requiring PRTD or a PR card for boarding from PRs from visa exempt countries.
Chances are the same person can make their way to USA and they WILL be allowed to enter Canada overland without neither of documents, EVEN in the worst case of non-compliance with PR residency requirements.

Processing these PRTDs for visa-exempt citizens is a waste of taxpayer resources and needs to be brought up.
 

HighCeiling

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andrews65 said:
Have you flown from the UK to Canada since landing? Or are you planning to any time soon? Did/will you do so with/without PR card/PRTD? Just looking for clues as to what is/isn't enforced, since I have a UK to Canada flight booked for a date its probable I won't yet have my PR card, with insufficient time in the UK to obtain a PRTD.
I am flying back to the UK mid march and back to Canada 2 weeks later. Will let you know how things go, worse case I get delayed in the UK.
 

spyfy

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andrews65 said:
Have you flown from the UK to Canada since landing? Or are you planning to any time soon? Did/will you do so with/without PR card/PRTD? Just looking for clues as to what is/isn't enforced, since I have a UK to Canada flight booked for a date its probable I won't yet have my PR card, with insufficient time in the UK to obtain a PRTD.
I just posted this description of my travel experience since eTA came in effect. Note that the last one is a flight from Heathrow to Toronto. IF you don't want to read all this: From my exerience, if you don't have an eTA, a PR card or a PRTD you have zero chance of boarding the flight.
I can't comment on eTAs still being valid after becoming a PR since I never had an eTA.

Here's my experience
=========

I am a Permanent Resident from a visa-exempt country, non-US.

I entered Canada via air three times since November 9, 2016 (which is when eTA finally became mandatory).

Here is what happened:
- Early November, Flight from New Orleans to Toronto: The boarding agent asked everyone who didn't have a printed boarding pass (= everyone who hasn't seen a check in agent because they checked in online) to come to the counter at the gate to verify documents. Everyone, including Canadian citizens, had to show their documents and then received a printed boarding pass if everything was in order. I didn't have an eTA (since I can't apply for one as a PR) which of course meant that when she scanned my passport, it said "no eTA - DO NOT BOARD". I also gave her my PR card. I then had a ten minute discussion, including a phone call by her with their hotline and me showing her the CIC website stating that as a PR I can't apply for an eTA and don't need one. After those stressful ten minutes, she finally let me board. To be fair, this was literally one day after eTA became mandatory so she was probably scared of doing something wrong, too.

- Late November, Hartford to Toronto: Before going through security, I went to the Air Canada counter, although I already checked in online. I showed them my passport and PR card for verification and they gave me a printed boarding pass. With that, I went through the gate without a problem.

- January, Zurich-London-Toronto: At the checkin in Zurich, they scanned my passport, then asked "do you have an eTA or visa for Canada?", I showed them my PR card (they didn't even take it in their hand, just glanced over it while I waved it) and said "OK" and printed both boarding passed for me (Zurich-London and London-Toronto). I was kind of surprised how easy it was this time, due to my earlier experiences. But I learned later, why they didn't care as much in Zurich: When I changed flights in London, I went to the gate and at the gate they scanned my passport, despite me having a printed boarding pass from Zurich already. Again, the system said "no eTA - DO NOT BOARD". She then asked me "do you have an eTA?". I said "No, I am a PR" and showed her my PR card. She took the card, then clicked some kind of "override" button on the computer (Don't remember what it said exactly), then typed my PR card number into a field and let me board. They can't verify PR card numbers live, I guess she just stored the PR card number for liability reasons to prove that they checked my immigration documents.

I assume your motive to ask this question is if you can risk taking a flight to Canada without your PR card and without an eTA. From the three experiences above, I'd like to say: Don't even try, you have no chance.
 

andrews65

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spyfy said:
I assume your motive to ask this question is if you can risk taking a flight to Canada without your PR card and without an eTA. From the three experiences above, I'd like to say: Don't even try, you have no chance.
I have a valid eTA (or at least CIC's website says I have); don't have my initial PR card yet and likely won't before I travel. No time to obtain a PRTD, not workable to reroute via the US. I'll scrub my trip unless there is good evidence that eTA without PR card will get me boarded (BA LHR to YUL)

@HighCeiling, I've PM'd you with a question.