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Need to renew PR Card, but do not think I have met the Residency Obligations

bs1992

Full Member
Nov 18, 2015
35
7
Edmonton
Category........
CEC
Hi everyone,

I apologise if you have seen this scenario a thousand times, but this topic is so complex and although some situations are similar, I'd like to get info on my specific situation.

I first came to Canada in 2009 with my parents as part of their PR application. I got my card, got my landed immigrant paperwork etc and all was well. After 3 weeks, I decided I didn't want to stay in Canada and returned back to the UK for a few years. I kept myself busy with Uni, but the thought of immigrating was too much for me to cope with and I started to suffer anxiety and depression. I managed to get my mind right in 2012, and came to Canada Sept 2013.

My PR card expired November 2014, but I'd only spent just over a year in Canada at this point. I saw on the CIC website that just because a PR Card expires, it does not necessarily mean the person has lost their permanent residency, and I haven't had a need for my PR Card up to now so I put off renewing my card.

As of now, I've surpassed the 730 day requirement (Roughly 760 days at the moment). But what I am wondering is, if I am to renew my PR card, will this alert CBSA/CIC that I was not here for 2 of the 5 years that my card was active (2009 - 2014)? Or can they only assess 5 years from the date of the application?

I'm very happy now, have a great partner, a great job, back at college and a great apartment. I would not want to risk throwing all of that away if I was to renew my card when there is no dire need. I don't see myself having to leave the country for a couple of years, I would just like to get it for peace of mind, but don't want to get turfed out of the country!
Thanks in advance
 

canuck_in_uk

VIP Member
May 4, 2012
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Hi

CIC will only look back 5 years from the date that you apply to renew your card. If you have 760 days now, you can apply without issue.
 

karthi44

Member
Feb 8, 2015
17
0
Hi,
Your situation seems to be different.
Is it legally allowed in Canada to stay even with expired PR card.
If yes, is it still legally allowed to work in canada?
 

zardoz

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Feb 2, 2013
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karthi44 said:
Hi,
Your situation seems to be different.
Is it legally allowed in Canada to stay even with expired PR card.
If yes, is it still legally allowed to work in canada?
Yes.
Yes.
 

karthi44

Member
Feb 8, 2015
17
0
zardoz said:
Yes.
Yes.
If that is the case. A person can get PR card as soon as he enters Canada. And if he have to leave out for some reason he can do so. But to renew his PR status he can even return canada after 4.5 years and continue staying in canada for 2 years (by this time his PR card would have expired) and then apply for PR renewal. Will this work out. If so how the companies offer job with expired PR status. Can you clarify this please
 

zardoz

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Feb 2, 2013
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karthi44 said:
If that is the case. A person can get PR card as soon as he enters Canada. And if he have to leave out for some reason he can do so. But to renew his PR status he can even return canada after 4.5 years and continue staying in canada for 2 years (by this time his PR card would have expired) and then apply for PR renewal. Will this work out. If so how the companies offer job with expired PR status. Can you clarify this please
Like so many other people, you are confusing PR status with PR card validity. They are NOT the same thing. It is perfectly legal for a PR to never hold a valid PR card if they don't leave Canada. A PR card is a travel document. Agreed that there has been function creep over the years but the point is still valid. For employment, you require a SIN, not a PR card.
 

Leon

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Jun 13, 2008
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You don't automatically lose your PR status when the PR card expires. There is no law that says that you must have a valid PR card in order to live in Canada. However, you may still be asked for it at times and then you just have to try to work around that.

Employers may ask for your PR card when you apply for a job but you can show them the expired one and give them your SIN. As long as your SIN doesn't start with a 9, it is a permanent SIN and valid for you to work. They can double check that as they do with the SIN of other employees. However, you may have to re-activate your SIN if you haven't used it in a few years. You can ask about that at Service Canada. They set unused SIN's to dormant status after a few years in order to prevent abuse.

Immigration has rules on how to deal with PR's and the residency requirement and they actually say that even if you have been outside Canada for years but have returned and spent two years, you meet the residency obligation and keep your PR.

They can not look at any other 5 year period than the 5 years previous to the examination.

Examination happens when you apply to renew your PR card, apply for a PR travel document outside Canada, when you sponsor a family member for PR or can happen when you enter Canada.

Entering after 4.5 years outside Canada would be dependent on getting lucky and not getting caught as you enter. The immigration officers usually ask a couple of questions like how long you were outside Canada etc. and if you get caught and they report you for not meeting the RO, you can appeal but if you don't have humanitarian grounds like taking care of a seriously ill close relative for example and proof to support that, you will lose your appeal and lose your PR eventually and then it will not help even if the appeal took 2 years because time spent on an appeal will not count towards the RO unless you win.

It would not be a good idea to try to lie and say that you have lived in Canada when you haven't because this can get you criminal charges and a high fine. For example, see this case from 2012: http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/couple-receives-120000-fine-for-immigration-fraud-510867341.html
 

karthi44

Member
Feb 8, 2015
17
0
zardoz said:
Like so many other people, you are confusing PR status with PR card validity. They are NOT the same thing. It is perfectly legal for a PR to never hold a valid PR card if they don't leave Canada. A PR card is a travel document. Agreed that there has been function creep over the years but the point is still valid. For employment, you require a SIN, not a PR card.
Thanks for your reply
 

karthi44

Member
Feb 8, 2015
17
0
Leon said:
You don't automatically lose your PR status when the PR card expires. There is no law that says that you must have a valid PR card in order to live in Canada. However, you may still be asked for it at times and then you just have to try to work around that.

Employers may ask for your PR card when you apply for a job but you can show them the expired one and give them your SIN. As long as your SIN doesn't start with a 9, it is a permanent SIN and valid for you to work. They can double check that as they do with the SIN of other employees. However, you may have to re-activate your SIN if you haven't used it in a few years. You can ask about that at Service Canada. They set unused SIN's to dormant status after a few years in order to prevent abuse.

Immigration has rules on how to deal with PR's and the residency requirement and they actually say that even if you have been outside Canada for years but have returned and spent two years, you meet the residency obligation and keep your PR.

They can not look at any other 5 year period than the 5 years previous to the examination.

Examination happens when you apply to renew your PR card, apply for a PR travel document outside Canada, when you sponsor a family member for PR or can happen when you enter Canada.

Entering after 4.5 years outside Canada would be dependent on getting lucky and not getting caught as you enter. The immigration officers usually ask a couple of questions like how long you were outside Canada etc. and if you get caught and they report you for not meeting the RO, you can appeal but if you don't have humanitarian grounds like taking care of a seriously ill close relative for example and proof to support that, you will lose your appeal and lose your PR eventually and then it will not help even if the appeal took 2 years because time spent on an appeal will not count towards the RO unless you win.
Thanks, your explanation is much informative
 

karangupta10

Newbie
Dec 8, 2015
1
0
PR Renwal - not stayed in canada since 2005

hi,

My name is Karan Gupta, we got the family immigration in 2003 under businnes category. My father, mother and myself. We stayed for about 2 months in 2003 Dec and again 2 months in 2005. But somehow because of my grandparents who reside in Inida, since they were not keeping well. My father forced us to move back to india, although i wanted to stay in Canada. Thereafter i have stayed in India from 2005 uptill now. Now i am a MBA garduate and working with Aditya Birla Group for last 5 years, i have always longed to move to canada.

I dearly want to get my lost PR renewed so that me, my wife and 2 kids can start our life in Canada.

Please help .. in 2005 i was just 21 years and was not in best of state to make the decision but now with 6 years of professional experience and sufficient resources i want to get my PR renewed one last time.

Regards,
Karan Gupta
Email: karangupta10@yahoo.com

Date of Birth: 10th January - 1984.
 

scylla

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Jun 8, 2010
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Re: PR Renwal - not stayed in canada since 2005

karangupta10 said:
hi,

My name is Karan Gupta, we got the family immigration in 2003 under businnes category. My father, mother and myself. We stayed for about 2 months in 2003 Dec and again 2 months in 2005. But somehow because of my grandparents who reside in Inida, since they were not keeping well. My father forced us to move back to india, although i wanted to stay in Canada. Thereafter i have stayed in India from 2005 uptill now. Now i am a MBA garduate and working with Aditya Birla Group for last 5 years, i have always longed to move to canada.

I dearly want to get my lost PR renewed so that me, my wife and 2 kids can start our life in Canada.

Please help .. in 2005 i was just 21 years and was not in best of state to make the decision but now with 6 years of professional experience and sufficient resources i want to get my PR renewed one last time.

Regards,
Karan Gupta
Email: karangupta10@yahoo.com

Date of Birth: 10th January - 1984.
The best option for you is to formally give up your PR status and apply for PR again from the start with your wife and kids. You are far too old to use your age as an excuse for failing to meet the residency requirement. If you were 21 now, you might have a small chance. But given you're already in your thirties, it's far far far too late.

If you want to try to save your PR status, you would have to obtain a US visa, fly to the US and then try to re-enter Canada by land. It's possible you may be reported at the border for failing to meet the residency requirement. If you are, you would have to appear at a hearing to argue why you should be allowed to keep your PR status and you should expect your PR status will be revoked (and you'll be asked to leave Canada) since you have no H&C reasons for not meeting RO. If you are not reported when you enter Canada, you will have to remain in Canada for two straight years without leaving before you can renew your PR card. You may find it difficult during this time to get health care coverage or a driver's license. If you already have a SIN - then you will be able to work. If you don't already have a SIN - then it won't be possible for you to work. Also, you will not be able to sponsor your wife and children for PR until you have been in Canada for two years. It's also unlikely they would be approved for a TRV to come and visit you in Canada. So you would most likely end up being separated from your family for 2 or more years.

Again, better to give up your PR status and apply again from scratch.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
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The other alternative is to apply for a Travel Document (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5529ETOC.asp) and let the local Visa Office decide the merits of your case. This is the "official method".
 

tmncaesar

Newbie
Sep 4, 2014
6
0
Dear All,
Thank you for your immense feedback and support.
I would like to ask a question regarding residency obligation and in need of your assistance. Please kindly note the following dates:

Landing Date: 21 May 2016
PR card Expiry: 12 July 2021


Time spent in Canada:
2016: 21 days
2017: 0 days
2018: 0 days
2019: 40 days
Total so far = 61 days in Canada.


When I renew my PR card for the very first time, what five years do they look at? is it strictly he five years validity of the PR card or do they count five years starting backward from the date when a renewal application is submitted?

If the answer to my question is first one i.e. "they look at the 5 years duration validity of the PR card", then I think I am at risk of not being able to meet my RO as I am planning (due to personal reasons) to extend my stay outside Canada beyond 1095 days and thus will be able to be physically present for 730 in Canada... :S

On the other hand, if they only look at the 5 years leading up to date when the PR renewal application is submitted, then I might be on the safe side and in this case, I will remain in Canada beyond the expiry date of my PR card to make up for the days I have missed in the past. So basically what I am saying is that rather than submitting my application for PR renewal on 12 July 2021, which is the day of PR card expiry date, I think it is better to remain in Canada for an extra couple of months and only submit a renewal application when I am sure that I have satisfied 730 days (or more) within a five-year period counting backward from the date of PR renewal application date.

Is this the right logic? Am I thinking in the right direction?

Thanks!
 

kalyan0606

Member
May 2, 2020
10
0
Hi there,

I am on same boat now? My situation is same like yours but staying dates are different. Did you get any solution to your problem? Appreciate your help.

Thanks in advance