My settlement issue in Canada - need further advise.

[zaid9199]

Hello,


The first part may be useful to anyone planning on returning without a PRC/PRTD to Canada but is worried whether they will face difficulties along the way.

This may be sort of a long read, be advised. I have nothing better to do with my time right now, so here is my story. A little background first. I have returned to Canada with my family in August 2020 amidst the pandemic. Prior to coming back we landed in 2006, when I was around 7 years old at the time. The last time I was in Canada after landing was 2007. I have spent no more than 45 days in total between 2006-2007. My family had decided to leave Canada at the time as they determined work back home was too good to be left.

Fast forward to 2020, the tides have turned and work back home was in a bad state. As a family we decided sustaining a life there would be difficult and we all packed our bags for Canada. We have a visa to the U.S and that is how we overcame the travel issue since our PRCs are expired and we do not meet RO. We obviously had our doubts as to whether we would be reported, but thankfully the CBSA agent was lenient and has let us through and informed us he will not report us. However; he said not to apply for a PR card renewal until we have stayed 2 years in Canada. Not a problem, completely understandable, thank you for welcoming us back.

It was a beautiful summer day which was made even nicer by the encounter at the borders. A heavy thought off our chests. Bear in mind there was no “Plan B” as we have sold everything we owned and if anything would have went wrong; we would have returned to nothing.

So the hard part was done, or at least I thought. As a recent university graduate at the time, the first and only thing I had in mind was finding a job and starting my career in Canada. So, I was applying here and there and talking to people for advice. One day I found out I would need a SIN to be able to work. When we first landed, my parents did not think it was necessary for children to have a SIN and they only applied for themselves. Before returning to Canada, it did not cross my mind and I thought if I am able to prove my status to the agent then surely I could prove my status to anyone that I am able to work legally in Canada. Obviously, not the case. So, what are the required documents for a SIN? Nothing that I have. An expired PR and a CoPR since 2006. Despite that, I still applied for one but I got a rejection letter. I was starting to get worried.

The reason I was convinced and didn’t mind staying in Canada for 2 years without leaving is the ability to work, because what else would I be doing? Time would pass, I would have earned some money and progressed in a career. After 2 years, I could reward myself with a small vacation back home. In fact, I knew I would have to stay 2 years without leaving in order to renew my PRC before coming, but I did not mind; I just wanted to get out of the country I was in. That was the plan.

After some advice from an immigration consultant, I was advised to apply for a PRC regardless of not meeting RO under a H&C appeal indicating that I was a dependent child when I left in addition to the need of a SIN to be able to do almost anything in Canada. I took the advice and applied in November 2020 for a renewal. I knew the pandemic has significantly increased processing times, so I was a bit frustrated as there was nothing I could do now. I estimated 4-5 months till I hear something back from IRCC. I also remember titling my application as urgent because I thought that my case would be deemed urgent given the situation and because how is a PR supposed to cope without a job, a bank account or government benefits should they be needed?

Come March 2021 and while I am doing my bi-weekly routine of checking my application status, I see “Decision Made”. Could this whole issue now be finally resolved. I wanted to know what that means exactly, and by IRCC’s definition it means I will either receive a rejection letter or my card would be mailed within 4 weeks. I was optimistic and hoping for the latter outcome. 4 weeks pass and I hear nothing. No worries, we wait for 2 more weeks, delays are the norm in COVID. Still nothing. In the back of my mind I was very sure that it might have been sent to a local office for in person pickup as I have been constantly visiting this forum to hear about other people’s updates. So I call IRCC, wait the line, speak to a call center agent for an update and there it was; the dreaded “your card has been selected for in person pick up at your local office” sentence. Dreaded because I knew that the local offices were not doing in person pickups due to COVID since Feb 2020 and I knew there were no plans of opening in the near future. At the same time; I was also relieved because that means they considered my H&C appeal and approved it, but still the main point is physically obtaining the card so that Service Canada can finally give me my SIN, and that was still not possible. I kept on checking IRCC’s Newsroom website and even their Twitter every now and then for updates in addition to calling IRCC call center to ask agents if they were planning to open to which they answer they have no idea when. I was also in touch with my MP’s office and they have contacted IRCC as well, but to no avail. My MP told me to come back to them in August and they would try again. I came back as they told me and they tried reaching out but same result. It seems no one can reach IRCC. I also wrote a letter to the local office itself and to the office of Minister Sean Fraser detailing my situation and why I urgently need it. I have even gone to the extent of going to my local office and speaking to an agent through the intercom hoping for only an update and to try to explain my situation, but no luck as well; I was turned away. I expected no one to be there since they claimed to be closed, but there were other appointments for other matters not related to in person pickup. It seems IRCC has halted this process completely. I remember seeing an immigration officer in uniform through the glass doors and thinking: “I am so close yet so far. My card is in there but I can not get it.”

So, what am I doing now? To stall this wait I decided to go for a one year post-grad course (started Jan 2022) in college which will grant me an opportunity to work in the end through a Co-op semester in Aug/Sep this year. In the event I still do not obtain my PR Card to get my SIN, I have been told I won’t be able to complete the Co-op semester and fail to graduate from the college. At that point I would have exhausted all my options and playing cards and would have hit a major obstacle and my time and money at college would have been wasted. Speaking of college, I could not apply to OSAP as well.

So my final course of action that I have been planning on doing to help overcome this ridiculous loophole is going for Writ of Mandamus which I saw was spoken of quite a bit here. I would need your advice on some of the following questions:

1. Is it worth it given my situation?
2. Will I achieve an outcome by Aug/Sep
3. Is the court likely to approve my case?

A final thing I would like to say is that IRCC and Minister Sean Fraser released a statement about modernizing processes in IRCC which was released 31 JAN 22. In that statement they said they understand the processing delays this has caused for people and that they know something needs to be done. The statement indicated an investment towards modernizing processes and increasing staff to help address all occurring processing problems, but still nothing was said about in person pickups. This was somewhat reassuring but I am still not guaranteed.

Any other advice is appreciated but I think I tried every avenue here. This has been the only thing on my mind ever since I faced this problem. It has consumed me mentally and it took its toll on me. I feel like I’m being a burden to myself and to my family who also have other obligations to take care off and my brother who is facing the same situation. I feel redundant and useless, seeing all my friends from university getting into jobs we have talked about. Is my case really not that urgent? Because surely they would not leave me like this if it wasn’t? I try to consolidate myself by saying that there are lots of other people who may be in a worse situation. At least I am present in Canada and contributing time to my RO. Last year I said that this wouldn’t matter next year; it would be resolved. I am saying the same thing this year, but this time with less hope.

I am sorry for the detail in writing and the length of this post but I am just trying to be heard. Till this day, I still do not feel settled in Canada.

 

[armoured]

So, what are the required documents for a SIN? Nothing that I have. An expired PR and a CoPR since 2006. Despite that, I still applied for one but I got a rejection letter. I was starting to get worried.
... the dreaded “your card has been selected for in person pick up at your local office” sentence. Dreaded because I knew that the local offices were not doing in person pickups due to COVID since Feb 2020 and I knew there were no plans of opening in the near future.
...
So my final course of action that I have been planning on doing to help overcome this ridiculous loophole is going for Writ of Mandamus which I saw was spoken of quite a bit here. I would need your advice on some of the following questions:

Sorry you're having these difficulties.

I would separate your question into two different aspects -
1) Getting a SIN (as this would resolve the vast majority of issues that you face at least in near term).

2) Getting PR card (which will allow you to get the SIN) - and whether mandamus is the right path to do so.

In both cases right now your options are basically to wait or to get legal assistance - personally I would say worth it to speak to a lawyer and get advice (including estimates of cost and time).

Note, the 'permanent residency obligation' forum here tends to cover the issues related to what you're facing more often, i.e. there are many threads about the renewal issue and some that cover the SIN issue.

I'm going to answer a bit backwards:
2) Theoretically your case is close to precisely what a mandamus should be used for (or at least one such type of case) - when an administrative barrier is effectively barring you from the government doing its essential function, and the only 'relief' possible is for government to complete the task.

I'm saying that "pick up in office" procedure when offices are NOT doing this procedure is akin to saying "you'll get it when we open our mailroom ... which burned down and we have no plans to replace it."

That's the theory. You'll have to consult a lawyer to see whether mandamus could work because there are uncertainties - like whether you can show that you have been told to pick up in an office and that the pick-up procedure has not functioned for more than a year.

One issue is that (as I udnerstand) mandamus also operates partly on basis of demonstrating that the delay is unreasonable and unusual - and yours is not that long. (Many pick-up-in-office cases are really about getting the PR to show they are in Canada and many/most are actually out of Canada and can't return - so the delays are effectively indefinite)

No-one can tell you exactly what chances are - and my belief is only a lawyer could give you an educated guess.

Note too that even if mandamus challenge isn't accepted by court/takes too long, some believe that filing the mandamus makes the government take action (sometimes anyway) just to not to have to deal with the court issues. (That's actually the ideal scenario beecause less expensive for the applicant and faster)

1) You should also speak to / ask lawyer about the SIN issue. It's possible but far from certain that there is a legal route to challenge Service Canada's refusal.

The issue is that SINs are to be issued to all lawful permanent residents - and even if you are out of compliance (which you may not be now if PR card has been issued), they should/must issue to you.

Now it's NOT unreasonable (nor unlawful, I believe) for government to require documentation. But it MIGHT be something that could be challenged on basis that the government is the ONLY entity that can provide you that documentation and/or confirm, and it does not do so (or has not done so) in a format that is accepted ... by the government itself.

This would hypothetically be a way to challenge because in court, 'government' is The Crown (in right of Canada), and courts don't like it when one part of govt hides behind another part of govt not doing its job.

In other words, the suit would look something like a challenge to the refusal to issue you a SIN by the Crown on the basis of info that only the Crown can confirm - and request resolution by order to the Crown to demonstrate that you are not a PR.

This is a non-trivial legal matter though for many reasons - not least of which is that it may take a lot of time. Lawyer may be able to suggest a different way to push/extract the info from govt.

Note, though, SIN issues may be a different subset of issues than usual immigration ie may need a different lawyer.

I can't make recommendations about whom to approach - the firm that sponsors this forum Cohen Immigration Law may be a good place to start. The citizenship forum here seems to have more threads about mandamus and lawyers that have taken up such cases (because citizenship issues seem to have amongst the worst delays as well as being important).

Good luck.

 

[zaid9199]

Thank you for your response, armoured.

One issue is that (as I udnerstand) mandamus also operates partly on basis of demonstrating that the delay is unreasonable and unusual - and yours is not that long. (Many pick-up-in-office cases are really about getting the PR to show they are in Canada and many/most are actually out of Canada and can't return - so the delays are effectively indefinite)

I can understand that my wait for the in-person pick up appointment may not be that long since I have only been waiting for that since March 2021. However; I could argue that it is unreasonable and unusual only because I need the card for something else which I am required to have but can't get (and an indefinite/no clear time-line as to when I could); the SIN in this case.

Now it's NOT unreasonable (nor unlawful, I believe) for government to require documentation. But it MIGHT be something that could be challenged on basis that the government is the ONLY entity that can provide you that documentation and/or confirm, and it does not do so (or has not done so) in a format that is accepted ... by the government itself.

I agree that it is not unreasonable to require documentation, but shouldn't that documentation be just a proof of me being a lawful PR? To my understanding a PR card is more of a travel document but at the same time could be used to prove PR status is valid (I'm not sure of what I said here). I am pretty certain I am still a PR without my card; so why is it the only accepted form of documentation for proof? Why can't a Verification of Status be used? I don't know, but surely there has to be some sort of system or record that provides details and proof of my status or at least in the exceptional situation of mine. The whole point of this is proving I am a PR in order to get a SIN. I have had no trouble getting OHIP or my license and you could say all of these come from the government. Service Canada is also government, so why do they require other form of proof when I already proved to other parts of the government that I am a PR using my CoPR? These are just speculative questions I am asking to express my point of view; so do not feel obligated to answer.


I agree with what you say about only a lawyer giving an educated guess. I just thought of coming back to the forum before approaching one for further advice on this matter. I like the idea that there may be a route to address the SIN issue directly rather than acquiring a PR Card to get one. Again, I do not need my card as much as I need my SIN at the moment, but at the same time the card proves to be the only solution I know of at the moment. Thank you for your views and suggestions.

 

[scylla]

So my final course of action that I have been planning on doing to help overcome this ridiculous loophole is going for Writ of Mandamus which I saw was spoken of quite a bit here. I would need your advice on some of the following questions:

1. Is it worth it given my situation?
2. Will I achieve an outcome by Aug/Sep
3. Is the court likely to approve my case?

I have personally only seen mandamus cases on this forum to push for a decision in an application. I've personally never seen a situation where the decision is made and the application approved, and the mandamus is regarding the delivery of the PR card itself. IMO this is a unique situation as it relates to a potential mandamus and you'd be best off speaking with a lawyer.

Perhaps another way to look at this would be why not pursue the mandamus. If you're willing to spend the money, then I would go ahead and try. It can't harm (apart from spending your money).

Good luck.

 

[armoured]

I can understand that my wait for the in-person pick up appointment may not be that long since I have only been waiting for that since March 2021. However; I could argue that it is unreasonable and unusual only because I need the card for something else which I am required to have but can't get (and an indefinite/no clear time-line as to when I could); the SIN in this case.

Yes, the wait is not long, but arguably there is evidence that these pick-ups are not happening at all. But again - only a lawyer could say.

I agree that it is not unreasonable to require documentation, but shouldn't that documentation be just a proof of me being a lawful PR? To my understanding a PR card is more of a travel document but at the same time could be used to prove PR status is valid (I'm not sure of what I said here). I am pretty certain I am still a PR without my card; so why is it the only accepted form of documentation for proof? Why can't a Verification of Status be used? I don't know, but surely there has to be some sort of system or record that provides details and proof of my status or at least in the exceptional situation of mine. The whole point of this is proving I am a PR in order to get a SIN.

I agree with you. It is a Stupid Policy (capital letters) to deprive lawful residents of the right to work - more or less encouraging or forcing them to work illegally.

Service Canada is also government, so why do they require other form of proof when I already proved to other parts of the government that I am a PR using my CoPR?

Again, a point that I made - perhaps slightly differently. Service Canada is an arm of government using the lack of proof to deny you something that can only be obtained from government.

I agree with what you say about only a lawyer giving an educated guess. I just thought of coming back to the forum before approaching one for further advice on this matter. I like the idea that there may be a route to address the SIN issue directly rather than acquiring a PR Card to get one. Again, I do not need my card as much as I need my SIN at the moment, but at the same time the card proves to be the only solution I know of at the moment. Thank you for your views and suggestions.

I don't know that these suggestions will resolve it but worth a try. Or hopefully you will get the PR card sooner. Please also make these points to your MP - esp that whatever the merits of trying to prevent fraud by various measures, it's not just an unfair policy (to deny a SIN when another arm of government is the only one that can provide the necessary doc - or at least some form of electronic confirmation ("yep, still a PR") but it's also Stupid - it impoverishes legal residents who want to work or forces them to consider off-the-books employment (i.e. without tax revenue to govt). Might try your provincial representative as well - social and health care costs (with no offsetting employment tax income) hit the provincial governments first.

[To be clear - I think this SIN issue is a side-effect of anti-fraud measures, or unintended consequences. It's an accidental policy. But it applies to very few people so not high priority to fix. MPs and MPPs can put pressure to say this is costing money and needs to be fixed.]

 

[canuck78]

Thank you for your response, armoured.



I can understand that my wait for the in-person pick up appointment may not be that long since I have only been waiting for that since March 2021. However; I could argue that it is unreasonable and unusual only because I need the card for something else which I am required to have but can't get (and an indefinite/no clear time-line as to when I could); the SIN in this case.



I agree that it is not unreasonable to require documentation, but shouldn't that documentation be just a proof of me being a lawful PR? To my understanding a PR card is more of a travel document but at the same time could be used to prove PR status is valid (I'm not sure of what I said here). I am pretty certain I am still a PR without my card; so why is it the only accepted form of documentation for proof? Why can't a Verification of Status be used? I don't know, but surely there has to be some sort of system or record that provides details and proof of my status or at least in the exceptional situation of mine. The whole point of this is proving I am a PR in order to get a SIN. I have had no trouble getting OHIP or my license and you could say all of these come from the government. Service Canada is also government, so why do they require other form of proof when I already proved to other parts of the government that I am a PR using my CoPR? These are just speculative questions I am asking to express my point of view; so do not feel obligated to answer.


I agree with what you say about only a lawyer giving an educated guess. I just thought of coming back to the forum before approaching one for further advice on this matter. I like the idea that there may be a route to address the SIN issue directly rather than acquiring a PR Card to get one. Again, I do not need my card as much as I need my SIN at the moment, but at the same time the card proves to be the only solution I know of at the moment. Thank you for your views and suggestions.

Surprised to hear that you were able to get an OHIP card. We have seen many examples on this forum where people were requested to show a valid PR card or proof they had been living in Canada since their PR card expired.

 

[canuck78]

Hello,


The first part may be useful to anyone planning on returning without a PRC/PRTD to Canada but is worried whether they will face difficulties along the way.

This may be sort of a long read, be advised. I have nothing better to do with my time right now, so here is my story. A little background first. I have returned to Canada with my family in August 2020 amidst the pandemic. Prior to coming back we landed in 2006, when I was around 7 years old at the time. The last time I was in Canada after landing was 2007. I have spent no more than 45 days in total between 2006-2007. My family had decided to leave Canada at the time as they determined work back home was too good to be left.

Fast forward to 2020, the tides have turned and work back home was in a bad state. As a family we decided sustaining a life there would be difficult and we all packed our bags for Canada. We have a visa to the U.S and that is how we overcame the travel issue since our PRCs are expired and we do not meet RO. We obviously had our doubts as to whether we would be reported, but thankfully the CBSA agent was lenient and has let us through and informed us he will not report us. However; he said not to apply for a PR card renewal until we have stayed 2 years in Canada. Not a problem, completely understandable, thank you for welcoming us back.

It was a beautiful summer day which was made even nicer by the encounter at the borders. A heavy thought off our chests. Bear in mind there was no “Plan B” as we have sold everything we owned and if anything would have went wrong; we would have returned to nothing.

So the hard part was done, or at least I thought. As a recent university graduate at the time, the first and only thing I had in mind was finding a job and starting my career in Canada. So, I was applying here and there and talking to people for advice. One day I found out I would need a SIN to be able to work. When we first landed, my parents did not think it was necessary for children to have a SIN and they only applied for themselves. Before returning to Canada, it did not cross my mind and I thought if I am able to prove my status to the agent then surely I could prove my status to anyone that I am able to work legally in Canada. Obviously, not the case. So, what are the required documents for a SIN? Nothing that I have. An expired PR and a CoPR since 2006. Despite that, I still applied for one but I got a rejection letter. I was starting to get worried.

The reason I was convinced and didn’t mind staying in Canada for 2 years without leaving is the ability to work, because what else would I be doing? Time would pass, I would have earned some money and progressed in a career. After 2 years, I could reward myself with a small vacation back home. In fact, I knew I would have to stay 2 years without leaving in order to renew my PRC before coming, but I did not mind; I just wanted to get out of the country I was in. That was the plan.

After some advice from an immigration consultant, I was advised to apply for a PRC regardless of not meeting RO under a H&C appeal indicating that I was a dependent child when I left in addition to the need of a SIN to be able to do almost anything in Canada. I took the advice and applied in November 2020 for a renewal. I knew the pandemic has significantly increased processing times, so I was a bit frustrated as there was nothing I could do now. I estimated 4-5 months till I hear something back from IRCC. I also remember titling my application as urgent because I thought that my case would be deemed urgent given the situation and because how is a PR supposed to cope without a job, a bank account or government benefits should they be needed?

Come March 2021 and while I am doing my bi-weekly routine of checking my application status, I see “Decision Made”. Could this whole issue now be finally resolved. I wanted to know what that means exactly, and by IRCC’s definition it means I will either receive a rejection letter or my card would be mailed within 4 weeks. I was optimistic and hoping for the latter outcome. 4 weeks pass and I hear nothing. No worries, we wait for 2 more weeks, delays are the norm in COVID. Still nothing. In the back of my mind I was very sure that it might have been sent to a local office for in person pickup as I have been constantly visiting this forum to hear about other people’s updates. So I call IRCC, wait the line, speak to a call center agent for an update and there it was; the dreaded “your card has been selected for in person pick up at your local office” sentence. Dreaded because I knew that the local offices were not doing in person pickups due to COVID since Feb 2020 and I knew there were no plans of opening in the near future. At the same time; I was also relieved because that means they considered my H&C appeal and approved it, but still the main point is physically obtaining the card so that Service Canada can finally give me my SIN, and that was still not possible. I kept on checking IRCC’s Newsroom website and even their Twitter every now and then for updates in addition to calling IRCC call center to ask agents if they were planning to open to which they answer they have no idea when. I was also in touch with my MP’s office and they have contacted IRCC as well, but to no avail. My MP told me to come back to them in August and they would try again. I came back as they told me and they tried reaching out but same result. It seems no one can reach IRCC. I also wrote a letter to the local office itself and to the office of Minister Sean Fraser detailing my situation and why I urgently need it. I have even gone to the extent of going to my local office and speaking to an agent through the intercom hoping for only an update and to try to explain my situation, but no luck as well; I was turned away. I expected no one to be there since they claimed to be closed, but there were other appointments for other matters not related to in person pickup. It seems IRCC has halted this process completely. I remember seeing an immigration officer in uniform through the glass doors and thinking: “I am so close yet so far. My card is in there but I can not get it.”

So, what am I doing now? To stall this wait I decided to go for a one year post-grad course (started Jan 2022) in college which will grant me an opportunity to work in the end through a Co-op semester in Aug/Sep this year. In the event I still do not obtain my PR Card to get my SIN, I have been told I won’t be able to complete the Co-op semester and fail to graduate from the college. At that point I would have exhausted all my options and playing cards and would have hit a major obstacle and my time and money at college would have been wasted. Speaking of college, I could not apply to OSAP as well.

So my final course of action that I have been planning on doing to help overcome this ridiculous loophole is going for Writ of Mandamus which I saw was spoken of quite a bit here. I would need your advice on some of the following questions:

1. Is it worth it given my situation?
2. Will I achieve an outcome by Aug/Sep
3. Is the court likely to approve my case?

A final thing I would like to say is that IRCC and Minister Sean Fraser released a statement about modernizing processes in IRCC which was released 31 JAN 22. In that statement they said they understand the processing delays this has caused for people and that they know something needs to be done. The statement indicated an investment towards modernizing processes and increasing staff to help address all occurring processing problems, but still nothing was said about in person pickups. This was somewhat reassuring but I am still not guaranteed.

Any other advice is appreciated but I think I tried every avenue here. This has been the only thing on my mind ever since I faced this problem. It has consumed me mentally and it took its toll on me. I feel like I’m being a burden to myself and to my family who also have other obligations to take care off and my brother who is facing the same situation. I feel redundant and useless, seeing all my friends from university getting into jobs we have talked about. Is my case really not that urgent? Because surely they would not leave me like this if it wasn’t? I try to consolidate myself by saying that there are lots of other people who may be in a worse situation. At least I am present in Canada and contributing time to my RO. Last year I said that this wouldn’t matter next year; it would be resolved. I am saying the same thing this year, but this time with less hope.

I am sorry for the detail in writing and the length of this post but I am just trying to be heard. Till this day, I still do not feel settled in Canada.

Your situation wouldn’t be considered urgent. You didn’t meet your RO and are applying for a new PR card so this isn’t standard processing. You spent minimal time in Canada and left 15+ years ago. If anything you got very lucky and weren’t reported at the border which is pretty rare when a whole family arrives with minimal history in Canada and having left 15+ years ago. When it comes to situations where PRs aren’t meeting their RO there is no schedule for processing. It is pretty rare for someone to try to reapply before the 730 days if they weren’t reported so not a lot of examples to compare your case to. How old are you? Did your brother also apply for PR card renewal and how old is he? Having the process drawn out works in your favour. You may not feel that way but in 6+ months you will be compliant with your RO so at that point you will be in a better position to keep your PR status.

 

[zaid9199]

Surprised to hear that you were able to get an OHIP card. We have seen many examples on this forum where people were requested to show a valid PR card or proof they had been living in Canada since their PR card expired.

Your situation wouldn’t be considered urgent. You didn’t meet your RO and are applying for a new PR card so this isn’t standard processing. You spent minimal time in Canada and left 15+ years ago. If anything you got very lucky and weren’t reported at the border which is pretty rare when a whole family arrives with minimal history in Canada and having left 15+ years ago. When it comes to situations where PRs aren’t meeting their RO there is no schedule for processing. It is pretty rare for someone to try to reapply before the 730 days if they weren’t reported so not a lot of examples to compare your case to. How old are you? Did your brother also apply for PR card renewal and how old is he? Having the process drawn out works in your favour. You may not feel that way but in 6+ months you will be compliant with your RO so at that point you will be in a better position to keep your PR status.

Why isn’t it considered urgent? Can you go on about your life normally without a SIN in Canada? Get me a SIN, and I would not be worried about my PR Card till I’m compliant.

I understand that I do not meet my my RO and our intention was not to apply until we meet it. In fact the CBSA agent told us not to apply or risk being reported. However; not having a SIN created a sense of urgency and we are going through things such as college and the need to work that require it. If there was any other way to obtain a SIN, we would not have applied. We were advised to apply under H&C grounds given that we were dependent children when we left as well as the need of a SIN. Regardless of not meeting RO, a decision was made and we were informed our cards were sent to a local office for pickup. My brother and I are the only ones in the family who applied. My parents have their SIN and already knew that they would have to live for 2 years before applying and are still waiting to meet their RO to apply for renewal. My brother and I are 20 and 22.

As for your note on this is not standard processing, it may not look that way but I believe the process until a decision was made was in the time span of any other normal PR Card renewal. What is not normal, is the wait for an appointment for pickup from the local office which has been closed till further notice for around 2 years now. I am sure there are others who have met their RO but were still chosen for in person pickup and are in the same boat as we are, but the majority of them may already have a SIN and are less worried about the wait. So what do you mean by this is not standard processing when everything seems to have been processed until a decision was made? Either I receive a rejection letter or receive an appointment for pickup which probably would have been set if it weren’t for COVID.

 

[armoured]

Why isn’t it considered urgent? Can you go on about your life normally without a SIN in Canada? Get me a SIN, and I would not be worried about my PR Card till I’m compliant.
...
What is not normal, is the wait for an appointment for pickup from the local office which has been closed till further notice for around 2 years now. I am sure there are others who have met their RO but were still chosen for in person pickup and are in the same boat as we are, but the majority of them may already have a SIN and are less worried about the wait.
...
So what do you mean by this is not standard processing

Look, there really is no point arguing the point with anyone here - all you're going to hear (including from me) are perhaps pros and cons.

See a lawyer or other such as immigrant advocacy group to assist. They can tell you whether it might fly or not - all you'll get here is opinions. (Hopefully more rather than less informed ones - but not always - but also neither here nor there as we don't decide.)

I think you have made good points (they echo my own so I would think that) - but the question of what IRCC considers criteria for urgency, what a court may listen to, and what you can push IRCC to react to (eg by starting a mandamus motion) are all different questions.

And again - since part of your issue or indeed the main issue is not having the SIN - pursue that actively as well!

[And yes, I also agree that the 'call for pickup' when they have not done these for about two years is insane - again, like saying we'll send it when the mail room opens but the mail room burned down and we have no plans to re-open. But the other side of that is that YOUR wait since being notified is less than everyone elses (although they of course haven't moved either).]

I think the SIN being urgent because otherwise it will force you to go on welfare is a good one - but I can't say whether it meets criteria for urgent.

The better argument might/should be that the law is pretty clear - lawful PRs shoudl be given SINs and you are a lawful PR.

 

[zaid9199]

Look, there really is no point arguing the point with anyone here - all you're going to hear (including from me) are perhaps pros and cons.

See a lawyer or other such as immigrant advocacy group to assist. They can tell you whether it might fly or not - all you'll get here is opinions. (Hopefully more rather than less informed ones - but not always - but also neither here nor there as we don't decide.)

I think you have made good points (they echo my own so I would think that) - but the question of what IRCC considers criteria for urgency, what a court may listen to, and what you can push IRCC to react to (eg by starting a mandamus motion) are all different questions.

And again - since part of your issue or indeed the main issue is not having the SIN - pursue that actively as well!

[And yes, I also agree that the 'call for pickup' when they have not done these for about two years is insane - again, like saying we'll send it when the mail room opens but the mail room burned down and we have no plans to re-open. But the other side of that is that YOUR wait since being notified is less than everyone elses (although they of course haven't moved either).]

I think the SIN being urgent because otherwise it will force you to go on welfare is a good one - but I can't say whether it meets criteria for urgent.

The better argument might/should be that the law is pretty clear - lawful PRs shoudl be given SINs and you are a lawful PR.

I understand, your are right I have argued all I can. Thank you for all your input. Perhaps I can update you of the outcome in the near future. Take care.

 

[armoured]

I understand, your are right I have argued all I can. Thank you for all your input. Perhaps I can update you of the outcome in the near future. Take care.

Don't get me wrong - get all the input you can, prepare your points, use them to think of counter-arguments, etc - but don't take comments here personally or think it's worth debating as such.

Good luck and please do update. I think the SIN situation is nuts.

 

[steaky]

Can you go on about your life normally without a SIN in Canada?

I think someone can go about their life normally without their SIN (especially senior people who receives pensions from abroad). Certainly they have no SIN to file tax but I think they probably can get a temporary tax number instead. They can work as youtuber and start some filming.

 

[armoured]

I think someone can go about their life normally without their SIN (especially senior people who receives pensions from abroad). Certainly they have no SIN to file tax but I think they probably can get a temporary tax number instead. They can work as youtuber and start some filming.

They cannot get a job as employers will require it - that's a very large problem.

 

[steaky]

They cannot get a job as employers will require it - that's a very large problem.

Youtubers are considered self-employed.

 

[steaky]

They cannot get a job as employers will require it - that's a very large problem.

Besides it's not a very large problem.

Getting a job is not the only way to earn money.