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My PR Card is expiring soon

chmukuru

Newbie
Jan 15, 2020
4
1
Hello,

I need your expert assistance. So, here is my situation

1. My PR is expiring on Sunday, Jan 19th, 2020. I am planning to land in Canada on the same day. Could this be an issue at the landing airport? What would be the best response to the immigration agents? The truth is I have been taking care of dad and brother, who unfortunately all passed in September 2019 and dad passed in 2018.

2. I have been living in Canada on/off for the last 5 yrs. However, when I count my physical days within Canada; I am afraid they are less than the required minimum of 730. I believe I have almost 600 days.

3. Should the immigration officials let me in, what will be the best course to get a new card? Should I wait for several more months to reach the 730 and renew my PR card? Could taking care of the family members esp parents be considered to renew my card?

4. Your assistance will be appreciated.
 

shettyhemant

Star Member
Feb 12, 2019
66
30
Hello guys,
Your response will highly be appreciated.

thanks
Hi,
I am not an expert but this is what i think may happen. They will let you in as they cant deny entry legally as you are a PR.
However it may end up in two situations here.
1) They will let you in, no questions asked
2) They will send you in secondary review and would have questions about you not able to fulfill residency obligations. Better to carry all the documentations as in to show that your dad and brother were critically ill (medical reports, bills, death certificates) etc. Also the most important thing is if you had any other relatives or family members who could take care of your dad and brother, if not then it can be considered as a H&C case.
They will still record all of this on your file and may or may not start process to revoke your PR. Not to scare you but there is this possibility.
If you get in I would suggest you stay put and not travel outside the country until you fill the minimum obligations of 730+ days in Canada.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,520
1,627
Hello,

I need your expert assistance. So, here is my situation

1. My PR is expiring on Sunday, Jan 19th, 2020. I am planning to land in Canada on the same day. Could this be an issue at the landing airport? What would be the best response to the immigration agents? The truth is I have been taking care of dad and brother, who unfortunately all passed in September 2019 and dad passed in 2018.

2. I have been living in Canada on/off for the last 5 yrs. However, when I count my physical days within Canada; I am afraid they are less than the required minimum of 730. I believe I have almost 600 days.

3. Should the immigration officials let me in, what will be the best course to get a new card? Should I wait for several more months to reach the 730 and renew my PR card? Could taking care of the family members esp parents be considered to renew my card?

4. Your assistance will be appreciated.
"My PR is expiring on Sunday, Jan 19th, 2020."​

PR does NOT expire. Only the PR card expires. Like a passport expires. While other parts of your query suggest you may understand this, it is important to be clear about it.

Among the key reasons why this distinction is important relates to the observations offered by @shettyhemant. In particular, the expiration date of your PR card has NO bearing on whether you will be allowed to enter Canada or, even, whether you might be issued a 44(1) Report for inadmissibility. As @shettyhemant noted, what is at stake is whether or not you are referred to Secondary and there examined for compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. And for this, there would be virtually NO difference if you arrived at the PoE a month before the PR card expires or a month after the PR card expires.

Thus, as @shettyhemant also noted, if referred to Secondary and a RO compliance examination, the outstanding question is whether or not you are Reported for the breach of the RO or you are given a pass based on sufficient H&C reasons justifying your retaining PR status.

There is, nonetheless, an important contingency for which the expiration date of your PR card matters: boarding a flight destined for Canada. A PR needs a valid PR card to board a flight headed to Canada. (Or obtain and present a PR Travel Document; there are also some exceptions, such as for PRs who are also U.S. citizens.) I do not know if a PR card is "valid" the exact date it expires, or as of that date is no longer valid. What I do know is that if your flight is delayed until just the next day, at least technically it will not be valid and will not meet the necessary boarding clearance requirements Canada imposes on airlines.

I tend to cut things too close way too often. This is NOT something I would have done, if at all possible to avoid it.

If, for example, you are not allowed to board the flight, that means you will need to apply for a PR Travel Document (unless you can arrange to travel via the U.S. and there travel to a land crossing PoE into Canada). And you will need to make a compelling H&C case in that application since a Residency Obligation compliance examination and calculation is a necessary part of the decision to be made by the Visa Office. As far as we can discern, Visa Offices tend to be significantly more strict, less lenient, than PoE officers.


Some Further Observations Assuming You Actually Travel and Arrive at a PoE soon:

Again, the expiration date of your PR card is largely irrelevant, and its particular expiration date is indeed NOT at all relevant, even if the expiration date is something which catches the PIL officer's attention and thus contributes to that first officer's decision to refer you to Secondary (and regarding this, again, arriving at the PoE ten days before the card expires, the day the card expires, or ten days after the card expires, makes NO difference).

You may be "lucky" (as some will say, though "luck" has little to do with it), and as @shettyhemant further noted, be waived into Canada without a referral to Secondary, without being questioned about your compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. If that happens, avoid any further transactions with either IRCC or CBSA, meaning do not make an application for a new PR card or travel abroad, UNTIL you are for sure in compliance with the PR RO. It appears that will take at least, at the very least, until sometime in June. Thus, wait to apply for a new PR card ONLY when you are, for sure, in compliance with the RO; for example, if as of July 3, 2020 you for sure have been IN Canada at least 730 days between July 3, 2015 and July 3, 2020, you can make the PR card application any time AFTER that.

A PR does NOT need a valid PR card EXCEPT to present to airlines (or other commercial transporters) when the PR is traveling back to Canada.

REMEMBER: any days you were in Canada in early 2015 are now falling outside the relevant five years, so those days will NO longer count. Only days you have been IN Canada within the previous five years count toward RO compliance.

Odds of Being Referred to Secondary on Arrival at PoE: It is very, very difficult to predict how the PoE examination will go. While many say you may be "lucky" and be waived into Canada without a referral to Secondary, without being questioned about RO compliance, how this goes does not depend on "luck" so much as it depends on a wide range of factors and circumstances in the individual PR's situation. Among key factors is how long it has been since the PR was last IN Canada. If you were last in Canada somewhat recently, within the last six or eight months, there is a good chance the PoE examination this next time will be very similar to your experience that time. If it has been longer than that, and especially if it has been well over a year, the odds of a referral to Secondary increase a lot. There are, nonetheless, many other factors which can influence how this goes.

Since you are in breach of the PR RO by a lot, not even close (having spent less than one-in-three days in Canada in the previous five years), it will be prudent to be well prepared for a Secondary examination as to RO compliance . . . leading to . . .

"2. I have been living in Canada on/off for the last 5 yrs. However, when I count my physical days within Canada; I am afraid they are less than the required minimum of 730. I believe I have almost 600 days."​

Be prepared to detail all your dates IN Canada. If you were significantly closer to being in compliance, a rough estimate might be OK. But you are not anywhere near close, so it will be far more important for you to make a very positive impression you personally DESERVE the opportunity to keep PR status. Rough estimates are likely to come across as evasive. Precise details will, in contrast, help give the impression you are very serious about keeping your PR status so that you can settle and live in Canada PERMANENTLY.

Be prepared to present evidence of your H&C reasons for remaining abroad so long. Including some documentation, such as medical records, death certificates or at least obituaries or such, that will support the explanation you needed to stay with your family members. Carry this evidence on your person (not in checked baggage).

Be prepared to explain your plans to settle and live in Canada PERMANENTLY, including what you have done toward doing this and what you plan to do in this regard.

BE HONEST. Be forthright, forthcoming, and as accurate as possible. Any impression you are being evasive, let alone possibly hiding something or being deceitful, will make it a lot more difficult to persuade the officers you deserve the chance to keep PR status.

"3. Should the immigration officials let me in, what will be the best course to get a new card? "​

As @shettyhemant noted, you will be allowed to enter Canada. Question is whether or not you will be issued a 44(1) Report and a Departure Order. If the latter happens you can still enter Canada. If you really want to keep PR status, you can appeal. While you are well short of being in compliance with the RO, if you stay in Canada pending the appeal, along with your H&C reasons you should have a good chance of the appeal allowing you to keep PR status.

"Should I wait for several more months to reach the 730 and renew my PR card? "​

At the least.

"Could taking care of the family members esp parents be considered to renew my card?"​

Yes. But that is very risky. If you are waived into Canada or otherwise allowed to enter Canada without being issued a 44(1) Report, BEST to lay low and, as already noted, avoid applying for a new card until you are, at the very least, in compliance with the RO.
 
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chmukuru

Newbie
Jan 15, 2020
4
1
@dpenabill and @shettyhemant;
I thank you for your well-detailed response to my inquiry. All of your responses have been helpful. Let me also apologize for the delayed response. To be honest I was nervous given the fact that I was late coming in. I landed in Canada on the very last day of my residence card.

I am originally from Africa; when I went to my local airport; the airline staffs were adamant that I shouldn't board the flight since my card was almost expiring; this agitated me, as I knew that wasn't the case from the immigration perspective. From Africa, my next stop was Europe where I was also questioned, but eventually, let go to my next destination.

When I got to Canada the reception I received wasn't as bad as anticipated. Basically I was asked why was I late; I stated my reasons and was let go within a few mins. So, I would say I am thankful there wasn't grueling questions or secondary relegation as expected.

That being said; I now face the second challenge; which the two of you I am sure can assist in terms of advice: I am now physically in Canada but my card is expired and I know I have less than 730 days needed to file for the renewal of my residence till May or June. Could I stand on the same family grounds to request for renewal of residence card? If not, am I allowed to file for a work permit while waiting to fulfill the required physical presence? or can I work while waiting to renew my residence, if so what will be the procedures?

Thank you again for your assistance in this regard
 

Besram

Star Member
Jun 13, 2019
87
28
It is not recommended to apply for a new PR card until you have more than 730 of residencenin the five years immediately before you apply. Therefore, you need to stay in Canada until then.

If you already have a SIN, you can work without problems.

Would you mind sharing the questions you were asked at the border?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,520
1,627
@dpenabill and @shettyhemant;
I thank you for your well-detailed response to my inquiry. All of your responses have been helpful. Let me also apologize for the delayed response. To be honest I was nervous given the fact that I was late coming in. I landed in Canada on the very last day of my residence card.

I am originally from Africa; when I went to my local airport; the airline staffs were adamant that I shouldn't board the flight since my card was almost expiring; this agitated me, as I knew that wasn't the case from the immigration perspective. From Africa, my next stop was Europe where I was also questioned, but eventually, let go to my next destination.

When I got to Canada the reception I received wasn't as bad as anticipated. Basically I was asked why was I late; I stated my reasons and was let go within a few mins. So, I would say I am thankful there wasn't grueling questions or secondary relegation as expected.

That being said; I now face the second challenge; which the two of you I am sure can assist in terms of advice: I am now physically in Canada but my card is expired and I know I have less than 730 days needed to file for the renewal of my residence till May or June. Could I stand on the same family grounds to request for renewal of residence card? If not, am I allowed to file for a work permit while waiting to fulfill the required physical presence? or can I work while waiting to renew my residence, if so what will be the procedures?

Thank you again for your assistance in this regard
You are a Permanent Resident. As previously noted, PR status does NOT expire. You continue to have PR status even though the PR card expires. The PR card is more like a passport (citizenship does not end when a passport expires; one does not "renew" citizenship).

That is, you are a "Canadian," and thus you have the same rights to work as any other Canadian (although there are certain positions which require Canadian citizenship). This would not be working while "waiting to renew [your] residence," since you are a PR and you do not need to renew PR status.

I assume you already have a SIN. That is something you need to work, so that employers can properly file required tax related reports.

As noted before, yes you can apply for a new PR card and present H&C reasons in the application, and if IRCC determines your H&C reasons justify you retaining PR status, IRCC will issue a new PR card.

BUT that can be RISKY. That in effect forces IRCC to make a formal determination regarding your compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. And it would force IRCC to do this when you are in breach of the RO. And unlike the PoE officials, who apparently were satisfied without engaging in a full-blown RO compliance examination, if you apply for a new PR card you will be effectively compelling IRCC to engage in the full-blown RO compliance examination. Better to avoid that if possible. Which it is possible since you are now IN Canada and thus can avoid engaging in any transactions with either IRCC (by not applying for a new card) or CBSA (by not traveling outside Canada).

It is NOT necessary to take that risk, especially when you only need to wait six or eight months to get into full compliance.

Moreover, if you apply sooner rather than waiting, again that will most likely require non-routine processing attendant a full-blown RO compliance examination and determination, meaning a significantly longer timeline. Indeed, the sooner you apply for a new card the greater the likelihood of non-routine processing, including potential Secondary Review, which could mean it will take many months if not a year or so for you to get a new PR card. No point rushing to apply for a new card, and taking the risk of a negative decision, if it is going to take late into the year to get the new card EVEN if ALL GOES FAIRLY WELL.

OVERALL: As long as you were not Reported at the PoE, you are good to go, meaning good to stay and live in Canada as a Permanent Resident of Canada. Actually you could live and work in Canada for many years without getting a new PR card, or at least live long enough to qualify for and obtain Canadian citizenship without ever getting a new PR card. Only if you travel abroad will you need a new PR card.

That said, there are some practical, logistical issues which can pose problems. Provinces may require PRs to present a PR card when first obtaining a drivers license or applying for health care coverage. Ontario and, as I understand it, some other provinces will allow a PR to present an expired PR card (up to a certain number of years after the card expired) for health care coverage. In any event, these are specifically about provincial requirements for proving residential status qualifying for the respective provincial benefit.

YOU GOT PAST THE MAIN OBSTACLE, the risk of being reported at the PoE. From here it is mostly a matter of establishing a life in Canada. This is easier for some. Rather difficult for more than a few.
 
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chmukuru

Newbie
Jan 15, 2020
4
1
It is not recommended to apply for a new PR card until you have more than 730 of residence in the five years immediately before you apply. Therefore, you need to stay in Canada until then.

If you already have a SIN, you can work without problems.

Would you mind sharing the questions you were asked at the border?
Hello @Besram,
I thank you for your prompt response. Well, like I said when I landed in Canada the process through immigration was faster than anticipated. I basically filled in the information in their usual kiosk(like everybody else), then I eventually went to the immigration officer, he asked me how long was outside Canada? I told him about 15 months, then I added that unfortunately had to stay long because of family challenges.

Then, he said it looks like your PR card is expiring today; I told him that I was aware it is expiring and I am here to start the renewal process. He then stamped my receipt and told me good luck. It was a less than 30secs conversation.

thank you for assuring me that I can work, I do have SIN. Somehow I thought I can't work since my PR card had expired.
 
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Besram

Star Member
Jun 13, 2019
87
28
Thanks for
Hello @Besram,
I thank you for your prompt response. Well, like I said when I landed in Canada the process through immigration was faster than anticipated. I basically filled in the information in their usual kiosk(like everybody else), then I eventually went to the immigration officer, he asked me how long was outside Canada? I told him about 15 months, then I added that unfortunately had to stay long because of family challenges.

Then, he said it looks like your PR card is expiring today; I told him that I was aware it is expiring and I am here to start the renewal process. He then stamped my receipt and told me good luck. It was a less than 30secs conversation.

thank you for assuring me that I can work, I do have SIN. Somehow I thought I can't work since my PR card had expired.
Thanks for the update, much appreciated.
 

Copingwithlife

Champion Member
Jul 29, 2018
2,249
825
Earth
Hello @Besram,
I thank you for your prompt response. Well, like I said when I landed in Canada the process through immigration was faster than anticipated. I basically filled in the information in their usual kiosk(like everybody else), then I eventually went to the immigration officer, he asked me how long was outside Canada? I told him about 15 months, then I added that unfortunately had to stay long because of family challenges.

Then, he said it looks like your PR card is expiring today; I told him that I was aware it is expiring and I am here to start the renewal process. He then stamped my receipt and told me good luck. It was a less than 30secs conversation.

thank you for assuring me that I can work, I do have SIN. Somehow I thought I can't work since my PR card had expired.
All that shows is that once again the CBSA was asleep at the switch once again and not doing their due diligence for individuals not complying with their RO
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,520
1,627
All that shows is that once again the CBSA was asleep at the switch once again and not doing their due diligence for individuals not complying with their RO

Well, like I said when I landed in Canada the process through immigration was faster than anticipated. I basically filled in the information in their usual kiosk(like everybody else), then I eventually went to the immigration officer, he asked me how long was outside Canada? I told him about 15 months, then I added that unfortunately had to stay long because of family challenges.

Then, he said it looks like your PR card is expiring today; I told him that I was aware it is expiring and I am here to start the renewal process. He then stamped my receipt and told me good luck. It was a less than 30 secs conversation.
NOT close, NOT even in the ballpark. And misleading.

It is far, far more likely that CBSA officers APPROPRIATELY screened the returning PR and concluded there was no cause to subject the PR to further examination, including as to Residency Obligation compliance. Explicit IRCC policy REQUIRES CBSA to allow entry to PRs when it is established they are in fact a Permanent Resident, and it is NOT the policy of the Canadian government to pursue investigation of PRs for RO compliance UNLESS there is apparent cause. Particularly as to returning Canadians, both PRs as well as citizens, it is NOT appropriate for border officials to go on fishing expeditions.

In contrast, when it is apparent a returning PR has minimal Canadian ties and has been abroad so long as to raise questions about RO compliance, all indications suggest that the border officials ordinarily take appropriate action. Indeed, while it has been a couple years, a government response to an ATI application revealed that border officials, on average, intercept, report, and issue Departure Orders to more than 1400 PRs in breach of the RO every year. Moreover, while the last year appeal results data was provided for, in that ATI response, was 2014, a year in which 1,413 PRs were issued removal orders at a PoE, of the 1,008 appeals decided that year ONLY 78 were successful in keeping PR status. (Thanks for this information is due to immigration lawyer Lawrence Wong, who made the ATI request, and Star reporter Nicholas Keung for reporting this story, and to @Besram for providing a link to the Star article.)

Obviously, for the last decade Canada has been more thoroughly screening and strictly enforcing the PR Residency Obligation.

Nonetheless, the Canadian policy clearly does NOT pursue absolute enforcement of the RO, but rather enforcement remains focused on the purpose of granting Permanent Resident status. PRs who appear to be settled in Canada, or reasonably on track to settle in Canada, are often given a significant amount of leeway. Intentional flexibility and leeway is NOT "falling asleep at the switch."

Those who come to this forum for information and insight DESERVE honest reporting. While many Canadians may disagree with the policy that allows leeway to PRs who have failed to meet the precise technical Residency Obligation parameters, that is NOT how the rules are applied in practice.

In the meantime, those PRs abroad who have failed to comply with the RO should be aware that there is a real risk they will lose PR status AND that risk is not a matter of luck or CBSA officers falling asleep at the switch, but mostly depends on a number of rather well known and oft discussed factors, on the particular facts and circumstances in their individual situations.
 
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