MSP Question

[TeddyBearsPrincess]

This is a long shot but my brain won't drop the what if. I've been a PR for almost 6 years.

In 2016, I was about to give birth. I was still on visitor visas and my CAF husband and I were married for almost 2 years. I couldn't apply for MSP as a visitor so I was private paying everything. It was soul crushing. All in all, it was about 43k.
(Prenatal, Birth, and the constant barrage of independent doctors charging afterwards)

A couple of hrs after birth, I was handed a bill for 16k. I though. "Phew! That's it, like ouch but not as bad as we thought."

I didn't know that every doctor in the process would bill me separately after. The anesthesialogist, the birthing doctor, the pre-admit, absolutely anyone who talked to me.

I was told by my MSP rep to pay it off in a year and when MSP kicked in, it could be reimbursed. After actually doing that, the MSP customer service rep told me I wasn't owed any money and the reimbursal was for when Canadians need to be reimbursed like forgetting their care cards.

Suffice it say, I was crushed. I cried for days. I love my child and I eventually gave up. But what if I didn't fight enough? My child is older. Is there any hope?

 

[Ponga]

This is a long shot but my brain won't drop the what if. I've been a PR for almost 6 years.

In 2016, I was about to give birth. I was still on visitor visas and my CAF husband and I were married for almost 2 years. I couldn't apply for MSP as a visitor so I was private paying everything. It was soul crushing. All in all, it was about 43k.
(Prenatal, Birth, and the constant barrage of independent doctors charging afterwards)

A couple of hrs after birth, I was handed a bill for 16k. I though. "Phew! That's it, like ouch but not as bad as we thought."

I didn't know that every doctor in the process would bill me separately after. The anesthesialogist, the birthing doctor, the pre-admit, absolutely anyone who talked to me.

I was told by my MSP rep to pay it off in a year and when MSP kicked in, it could be reimbursed. After actually doing that, the MSP customer service rep told me I wasn't owed any money and the reimbursal was for when Canadians need to be reimbursed like forgetting their care cards.

Suffice it say, I was crushed. I cried for days. I love my child and I eventually gave up. But what if I didn't fight enough? My child is older. Is there any hope?

I found this from 2016:
https://wagepoint.com/blog/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-bc-medical-services-plan/

To qualify for BC MSP, applicants must meet ALL of the following criteria:

• must be a Canadian Citizen or have been legally accepted into Canada as a permanent resident,
• must make their home in BC; and,
• must remain physically present in the province of BC for at least six months of a full calendar year.

Under the plan, dependents are defined as:

• Spouse – one who is either married to or living with the applicant in a marriage-like relationship.

---
Since you gave birth well before applying for PR, the info above from 2016 may be helpful in your fight with MSP. This would seem to imply that a visitor that was living with their spouse, even those that have NOT applied for Spousal Sponsorship, would have been eligible for MSP coverage, right?
If your husband was deployed, or living in CAF housing somewhere, he would not be living with you...or would he? Could he still have the same residential address while he was `working' (and living) elsewhere? Might be more red tape to have to deal with; not sure.


This is a question best asked of a legal professional, not `helpful' members here that are largely offering our opinions. Having said that, I echo your frustrations with MSP and how their `clerks' interpret their own rules.

Should I find something that can help, I will reply to your thread.

Good luck!

 

[canuck78]

I found this from 2016:
https://wagepoint.com/blog/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-bc-medical-services-plan/

To qualify for BC MSP, applicants must meet ALL of the following criteria:

• must be a Canadian Citizen or have been legally accepted into Canada as a permanent resident,
• must make their home in BC; and,
• must remain physically present in the province of BC for at least six months of a full calendar year.

Under the plan, dependents are defined as:

• Spouse – one who is either married to or living with the applicant in a marriage-like relationship.

---
Since you gave birth well before applying for PR, the info above from 2016 may be helpful in your fight with MSP. This would seem to imply that a visitor that was living with their spouse, even those that have NOT applied for Spousal Sponsorship, would have been eligible for MSP coverage, right?
If your husband was deployed, or living in CAF housing somewhere, he would not be living with you...or would he? Could he still have the same residential address while he was `working' (and living) elsewhere? Might be more red tape to have to deal with; not sure.


This is a question best asked of a legal professional, not `helpful' members here that are largely offering our opinions. Having said that, I echo your frustrations with MSP and how their `clerks' interpret their own rules.

Should I find something that can help, I will reply to your thread.

Good luck!

Visitors, even those married to Canadian citizens, are not entitled to MSP. In 2016 you wouldn’t have qualified until PR was granted. The only way you could be reimbursed in a situation like this is if you had a pending application for example for a WP extension and were on implied status. At that time you would not have been able to qualify for coverage until you were granted the WP extension but during that time you were on implied status and working. After being approved for the extension you could argue for reimbursement. This is an entirely different scenario.

 

[canuck78]

This is a long shot but my brain won't drop the what if. I've been a PR for almost 6 years.

In 2016, I was about to give birth. I was still on visitor visas and my CAF husband and I were married for almost 2 years. I couldn't apply for MSP as a visitor so I was private paying everything. It was soul crushing. All in all, it was about 43k.
(Prenatal, Birth, and the constant barrage of independent doctors charging afterwards)

A couple of hrs after birth, I was handed a bill for 16k. I though. "Phew! That's it, like ouch but not as bad as we thought."

I didn't know that every doctor in the process would bill me separately after. The anesthesialogist, the birthing doctor, the pre-admit, absolutely anyone who talked to me.

I was told by my MSP rep to pay it off in a year and when MSP kicked in, it could be reimbursed. After actually doing that, the MSP customer service rep told me I wasn't owed any money and the reimbursal was for when Canadians need to be reimbursed like forgetting their care cards.

Suffice it say, I was crushed. I cried for days. I love my child and I eventually gave up. But what if I didn't fight enough? My child is older. Is there any hope?

There may have been a miscommunication of the MSP agent provided you with incorrect information. Nobody gets MSP coverage for time spent before they qualify for MSP. How soon after marriage did you apply for spousal sponsorship? Had you not taken out private insurance to cover emergencies while you waited to qualify for MSP? Not all policies cover pregnancy but if you had purchased emergency travel medical insurance and gotten pregnant later on then care typically would have been covered. Were you living in a military base? There are some immigration exceptions for families of military members but that tends to only apply when abroad not in Canada. The customer service agent who told you that if you forget your health card you can be asked to pay but then be reimbursed but in that situation you already qualified for MSP but billing the province was not possible because you didn’t have the physical card. In your case you didn’t qualify for MSP at that time. The fact that you had a c-section made this much more expensive. I’m sorry but you don’t have a case for reimbursement. Hopefully you have paid off the hospital bill at this point or have made a significant dent in the payments.

Would add that most doctors are not salaried and bill separately. That is the fee for service model. If you speak to a lawyer for 5 minutes they will also bill you for the 5 minutes. Same goes for healthcare professionals. Not unlike the US although rates are much more reasonable than the US typically. 46k is very high for just a c-section. I assume you may have had som complications or something was not routine if you were charged 46k for a c-section and 2-3 days in hospital.

 

[Kaibigan]

...

Suffice it say, I was crushed. I cried for days. I love my child and I eventually gave up. But what if I didn't fight enough? My child is older. Is there any hope?

I do not wish to be a wet blanket, but I see little hope.

Looking back on your previous posts, it appears that you were well aware before you gave birth that you had no entitlement to MSP at the time and you were debating whether to go home to US to give birth or stay in Canada. Your mother encouraged the former, saying it would be cheaper, while others here advised you to stay here, since it would be cheaper than US. You chose the latter option and now regret it. It seems that you would have paid something to give birth in the US and yet you were not about to complain to your home country that you should get a free ride. You chose BC. But now, years later, you think the BC taxpayers should foot the bill.

I do not think the applicable legislation in 2016 supported your claim and I do not see it now. Here's what the MSP site says now.:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/health/health-drug-coverage/msp/bc-residents/eligibility-and-enrolment/are-you-eligible/applicants-for-permanent-resident-status

The above I'll take to carry more weight than the blog cited by @Ponga, not that I see much difference. However, Ponga seems to draw some sustenance from the definition of "dependents" in the blog cited. I'll agree that taking those words at face value might, by stretching things, suggest that spouses and dependent children of "applicants" are somehow covered no matter what. Not even a requirement to live in BC. I doubt that was the intent. Moreover, I do not think your husband was an "applicant". So, while Ponga's views are worthy of respect, I differ. And Ponga has not gone so far as to say you have any real hope here.

Leaving blogs and the MSP website aside, the final authority in the matter will be the Medicare Protection Act (or whatever it's presently called) and the regulations promulgated thereunder. I have not bothered to look, since I am of the view that no support for your situation would be found there.

Since I started writing this, I see that @canuck78 has expounded at length on the topic and I agree with what he has said. So I see no need to add much more. The only final thought would be this. Even if you had some kind of a meritorious claim (which I cannot see), you face a difficult hurdle should you want to resort to a lawsuit to enforce your claim. That hurdle is created by the BC Limitation Act provision thus:

Basic limitation period
6 (1)Subject to this Act, a court proceeding in respect of a claim must not be commenced more than 2 years after the day on which the claim is discovered.
(2)The 2 year limitation period established under subsection (1) of this section does not apply to a court proceeding referred to in section 7.

Section 7 has no application to your situation.

While you seem to have been stuck with an unusually large bill, which sucks, I see nothing inherently unfair about denial of MSP coverage in the circumstances. Rules were in place and those rules cannot be said to be unfair by any stretch. It is clear you were well aware of the rules. You proceeded as you did, fully informed as to the risks. Your situation is no different to what my first wife and I faced when she came to Canada over 20 years ago. She came on a class of visa long gone and she was "out of status" for some time, which carried different consequences back then. She gave birth almost 2 years after arrival. No MSP coverage and we knew it. We paid all out of pocket, sans complaint.

 

[scylla]

This is a long shot but my brain won't drop the what if. I've been a PR for almost 6 years.

In 2016, I was about to give birth. I was still on visitor visas and my CAF husband and I were married for almost 2 years. I couldn't apply for MSP as a visitor so I was private paying everything. It was soul crushing. All in all, it was about 43k.
(Prenatal, Birth, and the constant barrage of independent doctors charging afterwards)

A couple of hrs after birth, I was handed a bill for 16k. I though. "Phew! That's it, like ouch but not as bad as we thought."

I didn't know that every doctor in the process would bill me separately after. The anesthesialogist, the birthing doctor, the pre-admit, absolutely anyone who talked to me.

I was told by my MSP rep to pay it off in a year and when MSP kicked in, it could be reimbursed. After actually doing that, the MSP customer service rep told me I wasn't owed any money and the reimbursal was for when Canadians need to be reimbursed like forgetting their care cards.

Suffice it say, I was crushed. I cried for days. I love my child and I eventually gave up. But what if I didn't fight enough? My child is older. Is there any hope?

If you wanted to try to pursue this, you needed to do that years ago. Way too late at this point. Drop it from your brain and move on.