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Lost PR Card, not meeting RO, Urgent Travel Requirement, PR Card renewal

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,282
3,042
@newcommer2018:

PR cards are valid for either five years or one year from the date they are issued.

There is NO indication at all that a new PR card might be issued to expire the same date as a previously issued PR card.

The conventional wisdom, which is supported by sound reasoning, is to NOT make a PR card application if you are not in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. The risk, what should be the obvious risk, is that the PR card application triggers the preparation of a 44(1) Inadmissibility Report, the first step in the procedure for terminating an inadmissible PR's status.

If you are in compliance with the RO, and you have lost your PR card, AND in the meantime you will be staying IN Canada, there is no reason to delay making the application for a new PR card. Without getting sidetracked with the risks of non-routine processing for a PR who is cutting-it-close (relative to the RO), and is applying to replace a lost card (both factors tending to elevate risk of increased scrutiny and non-routine processing), assuming the application is routinely processed, approved, and a new card issued, the new card will have an expiration date five years from the date it is issued.

If IRCC perceives that you are not in compliance with the RO, or has concerns about the reported loss of the card, or perceives the PR has gone outside Canada after applying, the PR card application can get entangled in non-routine processing, and depending on how that goes, what particular procedures take place along the way, IRCC might issue a PR card valid for one-year.

But as many are cautioning, a new PR card does NOT change anything in regards to RO compliance.

- If I travel outside on the new card, will the system raise a flag as per my original card that I haven't yet met the RO for the duration of first card or my new card will become the baseline?
A new PR card does not affect calculating compliance with the PR RO. It does NOT "become the baseline." The expiration date of a PR card is NOT RELEVANT for determining if a PR is in breach of the RO.

And neither did the first PR card. There is no such thing as "the RO for the duration of first card." I'm guessing you meant the RO for the duration of the first five years following the day you became a PR. The RO has nothing to do with the PR card.

There is nothing about calculating RO compliance that should be confusing. It is very simple: for the duration of the first five years, as long as the PR has not been outside Canada for more than 1095 days, the PR is in RO compliance. As of the fifth year anniversary of landing, to be in RO compliance the PR needs to have been IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years, as of any day, as of every day.

The date a PR card is issued, or the date it expires, is NOT relevant, whether it is the first card, a replacement card, or the fourth PR card.

My PR card has been lost. I would have been in non-compliance of residency obligation by the time my card expires next year. Now, I need to travel outside urgently. So, the questions are:
- If I inform the IRCC that my PR card has been stolen, will they issue me a new card with the same expiry date as the original one (expiring next year)? Or will the new card come with expiry date ending in 2027 (5 years from now)?
The intent focus on the prospective expiration date of a new PR card seems misplaced.

First, foremost, if you are not in RO compliance, or even just cutting-it-close, the prospect of getting urgent processing for a PR card application is remote. IRCC policies and practices currently weigh heavily in the direction of requiring PRs to rely on obtaining a PR Travel Document rather than urgently processing a PR card application.

Indeed, the more salient risk is the opposite, non-routine processing resulting in a significant delay getting a new PR card. Again, cutting-it-close and applying to replace a lost card are both factors tending to elevate the risk of increased scrutiny and non-routine processing.

But either way, and what many others have tried to explain, it will make no difference what date the new card expires.

The main thing to understand about this is that even if you are issued a new PR card, good to early 2028 (not much chance of getting one issued before the end of this year; but if that happened, OK, then a new PR card valid until later 2027), if you leave Canada for any significant period of time and you are in breach of the RO when you return here, the risk of RO enforcement remains. A new PR card gets you on a plane to come to Canada. A new PR card gives you better odds that border officials waive you through without RO compliance questions in Secondary. But your history otherwise indicates a substantial risk of an alert (or as you referenced it, a "flag") that triggers a Secondary referral, and if that happens how it goes will first depend on how many days you have been in Canada within the five years prior to that day at the PoE, with less than 730 constituting a breach, and if in breach, it's all about the H&C factors.
 
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newcommer2018

Member
Oct 18, 2018
16
0
OK... I can see why you ask now... Even if your replacement card has a different expiry date, your RO is still from the day you interact with CBSA or IRCC (e.g. cross the border back to Canada). They look back 5 years from that day and so a different expiry date will not RESET your RO.
This makes more sense. In either case, I need to stay inside until I complete the RO because if they still happend to check RO even with new expiry date then it can be an issue.
Thanks.
 

newcommer2018

Member
Oct 18, 2018
16
0
@newcommer2018:

PR cards are valid for either five years or one year from the date they are issued.

There is NO indication at all that a new PR card might be issued to expire the same date as a previously issued PR card.

The conventional wisdom, which is supported by sound reasoning, is to NOT make a PR card application if you are not in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. The risk, what should be the obvious risk, is that the PR card application triggers the preparation of a 44(1) Inadmissibility Report, the first step in the procedure for terminating an inadmissible PR's status.

If you are in compliance with the RO, and you have lost your PR card, AND in the meantime you will be staying IN Canada, there is no reason to delay making the application for a new PR card. Without getting sidetracked with the risks of non-routine processing for a PR who is cutting-it-close (relative to the RO), and is applying to replace a lost card (both factors tending to elevate risk of increased scrutiny and non-routine processing), assuming the application is routinely processed, approved, and a new card issued, the new card will have an expiration date five years from the date it is issued.

If IRCC perceives that you are not in compliance with the RO, or has concerns about the reported loss of the card, or perceives the PR has gone outside Canada after applying, the PR card application can get entangled in non-routine processing, and depending on how that goes, what particular procedures take place along the way, IRCC might issue a PR card valid for one-year.

But as many are cautioning, a new PR card does NOT change anything in regards to RO compliance.



A new PR card does not affect calculating compliance with the PR RO. It does NOT "become the baseline." The expiration date of a PR card is NOT RELEVANT for determining if a PR is in breach of the RO.

And neither did the first PR card. There is no such thing as "the RO for the duration of first card." I'm guessing you meant the RO for the duration of the first five years following the day you became a PR. The RO has nothing to do with the PR card.

There is nothing about calculating RO compliance that should be confusing. It is very simple: for the duration of the first five years, as long as the PR has not been outside Canada for more than 1095 days, the PR is in RO compliance. As of the fifth year anniversary of landing, to be in RO compliance the PR needs to have been IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years, as of any day, as of every day.

The date a PR card is issued, or the date it expires, is NOT relevant, whether it is the first card, a replacement card, or the fourth PR card.



The intent focus on the prospective expiration date of a new PR card seems misplaced.

First, foremost, if you are not in RO compliance, or even just cutting-it-close, the prospect of getting urgent processing for a PR card application is remote. IRCC policies and practices currently weigh heavily in the direction of requiring PRs to rely on obtaining a PR Travel Document rather than urgently processing a PR card application.

Indeed, the more salient risk is the opposite, non-routine processing resulting in a significant delay getting a new PR card. Again, cutting-it-close and applying to replace a lost card are both factors tending to elevate the risk of increased scrutiny and non-routine processing.

But either way, and what many others have tried to explain, it will make no difference what date the new card expires.

The main thing to understand about this is that even if you are issued a new PR card, good to early 2028 (not much chance of getting one issued before the end of this year; but if that happened, OK, then a new PR card valid until later 2027), if you leave Canada for any significant period of time and you are in breach of the RO when you return here, the risk of RO enforcement remains. A new PR card gets you on a plane to come to Canada. A new PR card gives you better odds that border officials waive you through without RO compliance questions in Secondary. But your history otherwise indicates a substantial risk of an alert (or as you referenced it, a "flag") that triggers a Secondary referral, and if that happens how it goes will first depend on how many days you have been in Canada within the five years prior to that day at the PoE, with less than 730 constituting a breach, and if in breach, it's all about the H&C factors.
Thanks a lot. This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. :) It is much appreciated.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,282
3,042
How far out of compliance are you?
At the moment it is like 14 months.
The actual calculation of days present in Canada, days absent, and days left on the calendar until the fifth year anniversary of the day you landed, all matter.

That said, between now and the fifth year anniversary of the day you landed, the tell-tale number is days absent. If, or when, that number exceeds 1095, 1095 days absent since the date of landing, that means you meet the definition of inadmissible for a breach of the Residency Obligation.

That is, if as of today you have been absent from Canada for more than 1095 days since you landed, you are NOW in breach of the RO (thus fortunate to have passed border screening without a Report being prepared when you last arrived). If this is your situation, it means the ONLY SAFE approach is to STAY in Canada, and NOT make any PR card application, until you have been in Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years (counting only days after landing, not any pre-PR days).

Moreover, that means there is no way to meet the RO, to get into compliance, until some day AFTER the fifth year anniversary of your landing, which again means you will need to stay long enough to meet the RO based on being present 730 days within the last five years.

Remember, once you reach the fifth year anniversary of landing, days in Canada more than five years ago no longer count. So, for example, if you have already been absent since landing for more than 1095 days, you will need to meet the PR RO without counting the days you were in Canada back when you landed (which appears to have been in 2018).

If you were absent from Canada three years straight (this seems to be fairly common among PRs who did a soft-landing; after landing and leaving, they then fail to make the move to Canada for three years or more), there is no way to get into RO compliance without staying in Canada a full two years after finally getting here to stay.


Example based on June 14, 2018 date of landing (approximate calculations):

If you landed in Canada and became a PR, say June 14, 2018, and you have not been in Canada at least 430 days, as of today, you are already in breach of the RO, meeting the definition of inadmissible, and there is no way to meet the RO unless you stay long enough to be in Canada at least 730 days within the last five years, which will necessarily be some date after June 14, 2023.
If you landed in Canada and became a PR, again say June 14, 2018, and if so far you have been in Canada at least 430 days, altogether since landing, you are still in RO compliance today. (This is approximate, subject to precise counting of days.) And eligible for a new PR card. This is because there are (again approximately) 300 days between today and June 14, 2023, the fifth year anniversary (if landing date was June 14, 2018), and 430 plus 300 equals 730, complying with the PR RO. Cutting-it-close, real close, but meeting it.
But in that scenario, if you leave Canada in the meantime (prior to fifth year anniversary of landing), that will begin to subtract days from that total, making the calculation add up to less than 730, and as a result you would meet the definition of inadmissible for failing to comply with the RO. Moreover, because you are inadmissible, in breach, that would mean you are not eligible for a new PR card (absent H&C relief) until you have stayed long enough to be in Canada at least 730 days within the last five years, which would necessarily be some date after June 14, 2023.
 
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YVR123

VIP Member
Jul 27, 2017
6,558
2,504
This makes more sense. In either case, I need to stay inside until I complete the RO because if they still happend to check RO even with new expiry date then it can be an issue.
Thanks.
Agree. If you are inside Canada and is at risk of not meeting your RO, it's better that you stay inside and meet and exceed meeting your RO before you travel outside. Good luck.
 

Cassiano

Hero Member
Dec 4, 2017
289
78
Dear Members,

I would appreciate your time in responding to the queries I am enlisting below.

My PR card has been lost. I would have been in non-compliance of residency obligation by the time my card expires next year. Now, I need to travel outside urgently. So, the questions are:
- If I inform the IRCC that my PR card has been stolen, will they issue me a new card with the same expiry date as the original one (expiring next year)? Or will the new card come with expiry date ending in 2027 (5 years from now)?
- If I travel outside on the new card, will the system raise a flag as per my original card that I haven't yet met the RO for the duration of first card or my new card will become the baseline?

Regards.
you shoud not travel, you might loose your recidency.