How to prove Work Experience in Family owned company?

[rajathbk]

Hello everyone,
I have query about how to prove experience of working in a company owned by my family.

Here's my situation:
We own a company incorporated as Public Ltd, and shareholders of the company are my family members (father, uncle, mother, cousin brothers etc. and most shareholders, if not all, bears same family name). I am also a shareholder in the company and owns a little less than 10% of total shares. The company is engaged in construction business. I am working in the company since year 2009 and have been managing projects as a Incharge/Manager, and have experience of independently completing under my supervision a total of six projects totaling to combined cost of CAD 30 million from 2009 till now. Since June 2013, I have been appointed as Director of the company.

In express entry I am using the following NOC Codes
NOC Code 0711 - Construction Manager (for period Jan 09 to May 13) and
NOC Code 0016 - Senior Manager (from Jun 2013 till day)


The dilemma I face is how to prove my work experience and present my case. I see the following possibilities-

Option A:- Should i show myself as employed at the company. then the problem I face is that the experience letter of the company will be signed by my father. I can provide Salary slips and Income tax return, as supporting documents along with experience letter.

Option B:- Should I declare myself as self employed?

In either case I can submit the following documents to prove my experience:
1. Balance Sheets (for proof of Revenue) of the company from 2009.
2. Constitution of company
3. List of shareholders certified by Auditor
4. Government Contracts signed by me on behalf the company.
5. Minutes of meeting attended by me during my work with company.
6. some Letters written to government offices on behalf of my company (only some because there are thousands of them)
7. Board resolutions of the company wherein I have been/was authorized to act on behalf of the company.
8. Minutes of meeting of different Arbitration in which i represented the company.

Please give me your guidance as to how should i proceed so that my work experience is considered.

In my personal opinion, I think I should go with option B, and provide a letter of experience myself listing all the projects done by me. and then substantiating the same with the above mentioned documents.
Please also guide if using two NOC codes is fine?

Please guide, I am confused and cannot decide on how should I proceed.

Thanks in advance,

 

[rajathbk]

Please guys, give your views and opinions.

 

[rajibsam]

Please guys, give your views and opinions.

Option A seems appropriate since it's a public company. You can support reference letter with tax documents and salary slip. Having multiple noc isn't an issue.

I am not an expert, please wait for more comments.

 

[bestofluck]

Hello everyone,
I have query about how to prove experience of working in a company owned by my family.

Here's my situation:
We own a company incorporated as Public Ltd, and shareholders of the company are my family members (father, uncle, mother, cousin brothers etc. and most shareholders, if not all, bears same family name). I am also a shareholder in the company and owns a little less than 10% of total shares. The company is engaged in construction business. I am working in the company since year 2009 and have been managing projects as a Incharge/Manager, and have experience of independently completing under my supervision a total of six projects totaling to combined cost of CAD 30 million from 2009 till now. Since June 2013, I have been appointed as Director of the company.

In express entry I am using the following NOC Codes
NOC Code 0711 - Construction Manager (for period Jan 09 to May 13) and
NOC Code 0016 - Senior Manager (from Jun 2013 till day)


The dilemma I face is how to prove my work experience and present my case. I see the following possibilities-

Option A:- Should i show myself as employed at the company. then the problem I face is that the experience letter of the company will be signed by my father. I can provide Salary slips and Income tax return, as supporting documents along with experience letter.

Option B:- Should I declare myself as self employed?

In either case I can submit the following documents to prove my experience:
1. Balance Sheets (for proof of Revenue) of the company from 2009.
2. Constitution of company
3. List of shareholders certified by Auditor
4. Government Contracts signed by me on behalf the company.
5. Minutes of meeting attended by me during my work with company.
6. some Letters written to government offices on behalf of my company (only some because there are thousands of them)
7. Board resolutions of the company wherein I have been/was authorized to act on behalf of the company.
8. Minutes of meeting of different Arbitration in which i represented the company.

Please give me your guidance as to how should i proceed so that my work experience is considered.

In my personal opinion, I think I should go with option B, and provide a letter of experience myself listing all the projects done by me. and then substantiating the same with the above mentioned documents.
Please also guide if using two NOC codes is fine?

Please guide, I am confused and cannot decide on how should I proceed.

Thanks in advance,

I suggest become an employee in the office and thats fine. who said a father cannot sign reference letter? Everyone has a post and that matters more than relations. you have proper reference letter from PR (whosoever he is).

1. take reference letters which includes all duties as per your NOC
2. take pay slips for at least 6 months.
3. Include appointment letter with details of terms and conditions.

that should work fine.

I prefer this would be better than being self employed.

Do consider opinions of other forum members.

 

[rajathbk]

Thanks for your valuable input rajibsam and bestofluck. It is of great help to know your view. +1 to you guys

As recommended, that Option A, i.e. reference letter with salary slips and tax returns is preferable, I am thinking of doing that. But in addition to that I think I can also provide a letter of explanation declaring the constitution of the company and my role in it and then also upload additional documents to prove my work experience such as-

In either case I can submit the following documents to prove my experience:
1. Balance Sheets (for proof of Revenue) of the company from 2009.
2. Constitution of company
3. List of shareholders certified by Auditor
4. Government Contracts signed by me on behalf the company.
5. Minutes of meeting attended by me during my work with company.
6. some Letters written to government offices on behalf of my company (only some because there are thousands of them)
7. Board resolutions of the company wherein I have been/was authorized to act on behalf of the company.
8. Minutes of meeting of different Arbitration in which i represented the company.

This will ensure that I have represented everything about my case to CIC with all documents on hand. Plus the above documents will only improve credibility of my experience. So in effect I m not showing myself to be self employed but I am putting additional documents on file to prove my case.
I think it is a bit risky to go just by giving reference letter and salary slips. I get this anxious feeling that I am hiding something if I dont declare the constitution of the company and my association with it.

Also, I now think I should get the experience letters signed by our HR personnel, instead of the Managing Director (my father). Would that be fine? What would you recommend.

Best, RV

 

[expressentryqueen]

Thanks for your valuable input rajibsam and bestofluck. It is of great help to know your view. +1 to you guys

As recommended, that Option A, i.e. reference letter with salary slips and tax returns is preferable, I am thinking of doing that. But in addition to that I think I can also provide a letter of explanation declaring the constitution of the company and my role in it and then also upload additional documents to prove my work experience such as-


This will ensure that I have represented everything about my case to CIC with all documents on hand. Plus the above documents will only improve credibility of my experience. So in effect I m not showing myself to be self employed but I am putting additional documents on file to prove my case.
I think it is a bit risky to go just by giving reference letter and salary slips. I get this anxious feeling that I am hiding something if I dont declare the constitution of the company and my association with it.

Also, I now think I should get the experience letters signed by our HR personnel, instead of the Managing Director (my father). Would that be fine? What would you recommend.

Best, RV

I think since your company has an HR personnel, you can get the letters signed by them instead of your father. I also worked with my dad's company while i was at the law school and used the experience in my application. I just submitted the reference letter signed by my father outlining my duties and responsibilities at the time i worked with the company and my salary. I didn't write any further explanations in my Letter of Explanation . From the looks of my GCMS notes, the letter satisfied CIC requirements. I will suggest that you concentrate on ensuring that the content of the reference letter is in line with the CIC requirements and get the HR personnel, preferably to sign it. You don't need a letter of explanation, in my own mind.

 

[rajathbk]

Thanks everyone for the reply. All your inputs were very valuable and helped a great deal.
I am writing this post to make things for any future applicant with the same case easier.
Finally I have submitted my PR Application with reference letter signed by my father, director of the company. In addition to that I have submitted bank statements, Income Tax Return, Provident fund passbook, and all other supporting documents as I mentioned in my original(1st post) post above.

In addition to that, I got reply on my case from CHC Delhi. I am posting the contents of the reply here for reference of future applicants:

"Regarding work experience with family firms; this type of employment experience is one of the more difficult to assess in the India context, especially if the business is relatively small and therefore has no independent accounting department or human resources management. Verifiable supporting materials from an independent third party will strengthen the application, for example salary deductions toward pension contributions, government issued taxation documents, or detailed banking statements can help to avoid reliance on self-serving employer references and testimonials signed by close family, friends and colleagues."

I hope these inputs benefits others. I will update my status on this post as my PR Application proceeds.
All the Best

 

[dell2]

Thanks everyone for the reply. All your inputs were very valuable and helped a great deal.
I am writing this post to make things for any future applicant with the same case easier.
Finally I have submitted my PR Application with reference letter signed by my father, director of the company. In addition to that I have submitted bank statements, Provident fund passbook, and all other supporting documents as I mentioned in my original(1st post) post above.

In addition to that, I got reply on my case from CHC Delhi. I am posting the contents of the reply here for reference of future applicants:

"Regarding work experience with family firms; this type of employment experience is one of the more difficult to assess in the India context, especially if the business is relatively small and therefore has no independent accounting department or human resources management. Verifiable supporting materials from an independent third party will strengthen the application, for example salary deductions toward pension contributions, government issued taxation documents, or detailed banking statements can help to avoid reliance on self-serving employer references and testimonials signed by close family, friends and colleagues."

I hope these inputs benefits others. I will update my status on this post as my PR Application proceeds.
All the Best

I also have similar issue, i have reference letter and letter from colleague only. Do you think it will suffice ?

 

[fkl]

CIC's reply makes very much sense and I am surprised at your question in the first place.

You are confused because you do not have a formal, genuine designation, else you won't be asking this question.

People don't SHOW THEMSELVES as employees OR Share holders of companies for that matter.

Either they are one of them or both - ON PAPER - formally. There is no middle ground.

I understand how things could be in India, but Canada is formal in terms of documents.

Imagine if you were in Canada, you would either have filed all of your taxes (YOUR MEANS YOU AS A PERSON) as an employee paid by a company where company retains parts of your salary as taxes and submits those annually at least to government. It also pays parts of your benefits (heath care, pension contributions etc.).

If you have been filing taxes as a self employed applicant, then you must have been paying higher taxes in some cases (no employer exists to contribute parts of your benefits). But at the same time you would have used much of your income towards COMPANY expenses (a self employed person is considered a business) and there by getting much benefit in taxes once your cash flow is above certain threshold.

The point is that at no point any one in Canada EVEN if he works at the company of his father, is in a position to CHOOSE to represent option A or B as stated earlier in the thread. Their status is predetermined based upon their past tax filings.

Ideally CIC would expect something similar to that. If you have filed your past taxes in India as a employee you should use the same - irrespective of your father being the majority stake owner / CEO or whatever.

Since things might not be same in India - try to use the one closest to your actual situation in India - have you been paying taxes as a self employed resource or have you had tax deduction as an employee.

Collect all of those docs and get those audited / verified by a 3rd party company and use their certificate

 

[rajathbk]

I also have similar issue, i have reference letter and letter from colleague only. Do you think it will suffice ?

If you can add more documents than just reference letter, it would be recommended. At least file bank statements, ITR etc.

 

[dell2]

If you can add more documents than just reference letter, it would be recommended. At least file bank statements, ITR etc.

when I was leaving for Canada I closed my bank accounts. And my income was below tthreshold so I never filed.
I can get testimonials letter from colleague and accountant at that time. Also, the business is closed as of 2012

 

[rajathbk]

So that means post 2012,to u are working somewhere else. In that case do it old job reference letter should suffice, if they meet cic requirements. All the best.

 

[dell2]

ya i am working somewhere else. i worked there for 8 months only.

 

[eeuser1]

Thanks everyone for the reply. All your inputs were very valuable and helped a great deal.
I am writing this post to make things for any future applicant with the same case easier.
Finally I have submitted my PR Application with reference letter signed by my father, director of the company. In addition to that I have submitted bank statements, Income Tax Return, Provident fund passbook, and all other supporting documents as I mentioned in my original(1st post) post above.

In addition to that, I got reply on my case from CHC Delhi. I am posting the contents of the reply here for reference of future applicants:

"Regarding work experience with family firms; this type of employment experience is one of the more difficult to assess in the India context, especially if the business is relatively small and therefore has no independent accounting department or human resources management. Verifiable supporting materials from an independent third party will strengthen the application, for example salary deductions toward pension contributions, government issued taxation documents, or detailed banking statements can help to avoid reliance on self-serving employer references and testimonials signed by close family, friends and colleagues."

I hope these inputs benefits others. I will update my status on this post as my PR Application proceeds.
All the Best

Hi rajathbk

How far did your PR file reach?

 

[rituritz]

Hello everyone,
I have query about how to prove experience of working in a company owned by my family.

Here's my situation:
We own a company incorporated as Public Ltd, and shareholders of the company are my family members (father, uncle, mother, cousin brothers etc. and most shareholders, if not all, bears same family name). I am also a shareholder in the company and owns a little less than 10% of total shares. The company is engaged in construction business. I am working in the company since year 2009 and have been managing projects as a Incharge/Manager, and have experience of independently completing under my supervision a total of six projects totaling to combined cost of CAD 30 million from 2009 till now. Since June 2013, I have been appointed as Director of the company.

In express entry I am using the following NOC Codes
NOC Code 0711 - Construction Manager (for period Jan 09 to May 13) and
NOC Code 0016 - Senior Manager (from Jun 2013 till day)


The dilemma I face is how to prove my work experience and present my case. I see the following possibilities-

Option A:- Should i show myself as employed at the company. then the problem I face is that the experience letter of the company will be signed by my father. I can provide Salary slips and Income tax return, as supporting documents along with experience letter.

Option B:- Should I declare myself as self employed?

In either case I can submit the following documents to prove my experience:
1. Balance Sheets (for proof of Revenue) of the company from 2009.
2. Constitution of company
3. List of shareholders certified by Auditor
4. Government Contracts signed by me on behalf the company.
5. Minutes of meeting attended by me during my work with company.
6. some Letters written to government offices on behalf of my company (only some because there are thousands of them)
7. Board resolutions of the company wherein I have been/was authorized to act on behalf of the company.
8. Minutes of meeting of different Arbitration in which i represented the company.

Please give me your guidance as to how should i proceed so that my work experience is considered.

In my personal opinion, I think I should go with option B, and provide a letter of experience myself listing all the projects done by me. and then substantiating the same with the above mentioned documents.
Please also guide if using two NOC codes is fine?

Please guide, I am confused and cannot decide on how should I proceed.

Thanks in advance,

Hey could you tell us if your work experience for approved?