How to prove intent to return to Canada after my spouse gets PR?

[GREAKLY]

Hello everybody,

I am Canadian citizen and I am sponsoring my wife to come to Canada. We sent the family class sponsorship application to the CIC in March 2013. In April 2013 I was approved as a sponsor and our file was sent to the regional office (Moscow, Russia). A year later in April 2014 we have received an email, requesting additional information proving the genuineness of our marriage.

One of the things the Visa Officer did not like about our application was the fact that it wasn't clear to him/her whether I was living in Canada or not. Indeed, I am self-employed, so I could work pretty much from anywhere. At the time we filed the application I was living in Canada. But since the application process took so long (over a year now) and, naturally, I wanted to be with my wife, I began spending more and more time outside Canada.

The law says than in order to sponsor a spouse I have to live in Canada or plan to return to Canada once my spouse receives the PR. And here comes the "Catch 22": in order to come to Canada my wife needs the PR. In order for her to get the PR I/we need to prove that I/we plan to return to Canada once the PR is approved. But I do not want to return to Canada without her. So, I can't really return to Canada until she gets the PR. Vicious circle...

Has anybody been in my shoes or got any idea how to deal with such situation? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Alurra71]

What they want/need from you is your well thought out 'plan' for when your wife is issued her PR visa. You should give them an outline of what you will do once she is granted her PR. Where you will live, how you will support yourselves, how your work can be done from anywhere in the world. What skills she has that translates to Canada and can be used by her once she arrives. Any correspondence you have with family 'back home' that talks about your return when the Mrs. is granted PR.

That is the kind of information they are looking for. They don't need your 'concreted' proof, only proof that you have thought this out and you have a plan in mind for when she is granted her PR.

Good luck.

 

[wowsers]

Just tell them straight (as I did). You have plans about what you will do when you get home to Canada (set them out) but would not dream of returning there without your wife; so your plans are conditional on her getting her PR. Such a statement caused us no problem (landing next week!) and it should not cause you any problem either.

 

[angryrectangle]

When we filed my husband's application, I included the following "proof" of intent to move back to Canada:

- Emails between myself and family/friends talking about our intentions to move back to Canada
- A notarized letter from my father saying he's expecting us, we'll be staying with him, and he'll be financially responsible for us when we arrive
- A letter written by myself discussing our plans to re-establish in Canada, and WHY we were 100% committed to living there

Do you have any ties to Canada? As in - owning a house, family/work responsibilities, etc?

I find it a bit silly that they ask for job offers/rental contracts as proof.. Since the timelines are so whacky, how can we plan to rent an apartment when we have no idea how much time it will take to process our application? Haha

Good luck!

 

[Saneth]

This part worried us, too. We've been living in the US for the past 21 years. However, we got a notarized letter from my husband's mother stating that when we arrive we are welcome to live with her, and we explained that my husband's employer has an office in Canada and that he is in the process of obtaining a transfer to that office (he has since moved to that office in Canada and is now living there, waiting for me).

This seemed to work well as I'm told by the people on this forum that I got my PPR yesterday.

I think they just want to know that you have a concrete plan for how you are going to return. Good luck!

 

[ninakap30]

Just tell them straight (as I did). You have plans about what you will do when you get home to Canada (set them out) but would not dream of returning there without your wife; so your plans are conditional on her getting her PR. Such a statement caused us no problem (landing next week!) and it should not cause you any problem either.

hello....ı am ın same posıtıon...no job offer no shelter...really ı am worrıed about thıs...only ı can explaın them that ı dont want to lıve wıthout my hubby...and that ıf ı make all thıs procedure and spendıng tıme to deal wıth all these ıs just because really we want to lıve there.........ı mean dealıng lıke thıs ıs not a game of course......on the other hand ı dont have maıls or relatıves to show them maıls...just my sımple words....and just a plan that we have ın our mınd..ıs thıs enough to accept us???

 

[kokonatsu]

hello....ı am ın same posıtıon...no job offer no shelter...really ı am worrıed about thıs...only ı can explaın them that ı dont want to lıve wıthout my hubby...and that ıf ı make all thıs procedure and spendıng tıme to deal wıth all these ıs just because really we want to lıve there.........ı mean dealıng lıke thıs ıs not a game of course......on the other hand ı dont have maıls or relatıves to show them maıls...just my sımple words....and just a plan that we have ın our mınd..ıs thıs enough to accept us???

I am living outside Canada while I wait for my partner's PR to come, we applied, and I didn't have any job or job offer, although I have some friends who will let us stay in their basement until we get on our feet, and just took a screenshot of that facebook message and included it. I didn't have any notarized letter in my application. But I also explained how I will support myself financially, included bank statements to show I have some money to support us while we're getting on our feet, explained that my partner's friend will help him get a job when we get to Canada. We also included a copy of my partner's university transcripts to show he has education and skills to get a job.

So basically, I just wrote a detailed plan of what we'll do, where we'll live and how we'll support ourselves, especially in the beginning when we will be looking for jobs.

I think it's important that they feel confident that you will be alright financially when you get to Canada, so your spouse (the PR) is not going to need social assistance.

 

[ninakap30]

I am living outside Canada while I wait for my partner's PR to come, we applied, and I didn't have any job or job offer, although I have some friends who will let us stay in their basement until we get on our feet, and just took a screenshot of that facebook message and included it. I didn't have any notarized letter in my application. But I also explained how I will support myself financially, included bank statements to show I have some money to support us while we're getting on our feet, explained that my partner's friend will help him get a job when we get to Canada. We also included a copy of my partner's university transcripts to show he has education and skills to get a job.

So basically, I just wrote a detailed plan of what we'll do, where we'll live and how we'll support ourselves, especially in the beginning when we will be looking for jobs.

I think it's important that they feel confident that you will be alright financially when you get to Canada, so your spouse (the PR) is not going to need social assistance.

for me the problem ıs that ı dont have someone not even for thıs...ı mean even at fcb to wrıte me somethıngs showıng my ıntentıon to turn ot to gıve me a shelter.....for thıs ı am worrıed..ı dont have someone....of course we wıll have money for start and ı can show them my plan but ı dont know ıf thıs ıs enough....how they wıll be convınced?ı mean ıf a canadıan cıtızen doesnt have relatıves or someone to help hım.her he/she cant turn to Canada?thıs ıs crazy.....ın some occasıons they ask letter for shelter or job offer..how ıs thıs possoble?no famıly...and who wıll accept to make u a job offer whıle u dont know when all thıs procedure wıll fınısh?maybe 4 maybe 14 months later....and really ı cant thınk that ı must go alone ın canada and be wıtout my husband ı want we go together...do u thınk lıke thıs honest(but of course ın more polıte way?would help?the only ı thought ıs to talk wıth some people rentıng houses by maıl and attach them ın my envelope showıng really ı am tryıng to fınd ınformatıon about Canada

 

[ninakap30]

Hello everybody,

I am Canadian citizen and I am sponsoring my wife to come to Canada. We sent the family class sponsorship application to the CIC in March 2013. In April 2013 I was approved as a sponsor and our file was sent to the regional office (Moscow, Russia). A year later in April 2014 we have received an email, requesting additional information proving the genuineness of our marriage.

One of the things the Visa Officer did not like about our application was the fact that it wasn't clear to him/her whether I was living in Canada or not. Indeed, I am self-employed, so I could work pretty much from anywhere. At the time we filed the application I was living in Canada. But since the application process took so long (over a year now) and, naturally, I wanted to be with my wife, I began spending more and more time outside Canada.

The law says than in order to sponsor a spouse I have to live in Canada or plan to return to Canada once my spouse receives the PR. And here comes the "Catch 22": in order to come to Canada my wife needs the PR. In order for her to get the PR I/we need to prove that I/we plan to return to Canada once the PR is approved. But I do not want to return to Canada without her. So, I can't really return to Canada until she gets the PR. Vicious circle...

Has anybody been in my shoes or got any idea how to deal with such situation? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Greekly what dıd u do?ı need ur advıce too

 

[GREAKLY]

I did what I was advised on this forum. I wrote them a letter stating that currently I spend more time abroad than in Canada, because the application approval process takes so long and, naturally, I want to be with my wife. I also stated that once the sponsorship application is approved we will move to Canada. In addition to that I have attached my wife’s credentials (university degree diploma, successful work projects, language proficiency, etc.) to show that she would be able to adapt easily and find a good job in Canada quickly. I have also attached copies of my and my wife’s bank statements showing that we have enough money to cover our expenses in Canada at least for a few months after the move.

Being recently naturalized myself I do not have any family in Canada. And since we do not know how long the application process would take, there was no way we could have looked for a job or housing. It just didn't make any sense. I also put that in my letter, trying to explain that at this moment I really could not possibly have any other “ties” to Canada than the ones outlined above.

I hope this would be enough for them. If not, we’d have no other way but to appeal the decision. Given my personal experience with the immigration judge I believe we have a strong case. So, it’s just a matter of whether the application gets approved the first time or more effort would be needed.

 

[ninakap30]

I did what I was advised on this forum. I wrote them a letter stating that currently I spend more time abroad than in Canada, because the application approval process takes so long and, naturally, I want to be with my wife. I also stated that once the sponsorship application is approved we will move to Canada. In addition to that I have attached my wife's credentials (university degree diploma, successful work projects, language proficiency, etc.) to show that she would be able to adapt easily and find a good job in Canada quickly. I have also attached copies of my and my wife's bank statements showing that we have enough money to cover our expenses in Canada at least for a few months after the move.

Being recently naturalized myself I do not have any family in Canada. And since we do not know how long the application process would take, there was no way we could have looked for a job or housing. It just didn't make any sense. I also put that in my letter, trying to explain that at this moment I really could not possibly have any other “ties” to Canada than the ones outlined above.

I hope this would be enough for them. If not, we'd have no other way but to appeal the decision. Given my personal experience with the immigration judge I believe we have a strong case. So, it's just a matter of whether the application gets approved the first time or more effort would be needed.
GOOD LUCK gREEKLY.HOPE EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE.I AM IN SAME POSITION YET TRYING TO FILL IN THE APPLICATION PACKAGE AND TRYING TO COLLECT EVIDENCE I WILL GO TO CANADA.

 

[GREAKLY]

Today I received another email from CIC:

Dear Applicant,

This refers to your application for permanent residence in Canada.

Subsection 12(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act states that a foreign national may be selected as a member of the family class on the basis of their relationship as the spouse, common-law partner, child, parent or other prescribed family member of a Canadian citizen or permanent resident.

Section 120 of the Regulations states that for the purposes of Part 5 of the Regulations,

(a) a permanent resident visa shall not be issued to a foreign national who makes an application as a member of the family class or to their accompanying family members unless a sponsorship undertaking in respect of the foreign national and those family members is in effect, and
(b) a foreign national who makes an application as a member of the family class and their accompanying family members shall not become permanent residents unless a sponsorship undertaking in respect of the foreign national and those family members is in effect and the sponsor who gave that undertaking still meets the requirements of section 133 and, if applicable, Section 137.

Subsection 130(2) states that A sponsor who is a Canadian citizen and does not reside in Canada may sponsor an application referred to in subsection (1) by their spouse, common-law partner, conjugal partner or dependent child who has no dependent children if the sponsor will reside in Canada when the applicant becomes a permanent resident.

Subsection 133(1)(a) of the Regulations states (in part) that a sponsorship application shall only be approved by an officer if, on the day on which the application was filed and from that day until the day a decision is made with respect to the application, there is evidence that the sponsor is a sponsor as described in Section 130.

On the evidence submitted I am not satisfied that your sponsor intends to reside in Canada. I noted that your sponsor has been mostly living outside Canada since at least 2012. Your sponsor is self-employed and thus is not committed to reside in Canada due to his work obligations. According to your submission dated May 2014, your sponsor intends to move to Canada once you are granted a permanent resident visa. However, I am not satisfied that this is a sufficient evidence of his intention to relocate to Canada. You did not provide explanation from your sponsor regarding his intention to return to Canada as to why, when, where you plan to reside, how to support yourselves financially, etc. You did not provide any documentary evidence of any commitment with any third parties that would make your sponsor return to Canada, that of your sponsor's intention to relocate to Canada and that of steps you have undertaken to prepare your relocation. Accordingly he does not meet the requirements of subsection 130(2) of the Regulations. As a result, you do not meet the requirements of section 120 of the Regulations.

By this letter, you are given thirty (30) days in which to present any documentation that would address our concerns mentioned above. If we do not receive any documentation within 30 days of the date of this letter, your application will be assessed on the basis of the information already before the officer and could result in the refusal of your application.

All requested documents not originally in English or French must be accompanied by a notarized translation into English or French.

Yours truly,

Immigration Officer

At this point I really do not know what to do...

 

[MilesAway]

Sadly, Moscow has a bad record for sponsors living abroad. I'm also living abroad with my spouse, and I'll be going through the Moscow VO as well.

The only thing that might work is to go back to Canada, and show that you are establishing yourself there. Unless you have some job offers or housing sorted. Good luck!

 

[mikeymyke]

I think the biggest problem for you is that you keep showing proof of your wife's intentions to live in Canada, and her ability to adapt to living there, but you don't show enough proof of your own intentions of living in Canada. I kind of agree with CIC that saying you will move to Canada after she gets PR is kind of bad, because you're supposed to show you plan on coming to Canada BEFORE she is approved for PR, but what you're doing is saying, "Give her the PR first, then I'll think about what to do after I go there".

 

[xxdieselxx]

Today I received another email from CIC:

Dear Applicant,

This refers to your application for permanent residence in Canada.

Subsection 12(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act states that a foreign national may be selected as a member of the family class on the basis of their relationship as the spouse, common-law partner, child, parent or other prescribed family member of a Canadian citizen or permanent resident.

Section 120 of the Regulations states that for the purposes of Part 5 of the Regulations,

(a) a permanent resident visa shall not be issued to a foreign national who makes an application as a member of the family class or to their accompanying family members unless a sponsorship undertaking in respect of the foreign national and those family members is in effect, and
(b) a foreign national who makes an application as a member of the family class and their accompanying family members shall not become permanent residents unless a sponsorship undertaking in respect of the foreign national and those family members is in effect and the sponsor who gave that undertaking still meets the requirements of section 133 and, if applicable, Section 137.

Subsection 130(2) states that A sponsor who is a Canadian citizen and does not reside in Canada may sponsor an application referred to in subsection (1) by their spouse, common-law partner, conjugal partner or dependent child who has no dependent children if the sponsor will reside in Canada when the applicant becomes a permanent resident.

Subsection 133(1)(a) of the Regulations states (in part) that a sponsorship application shall only be approved by an officer if, on the day on which the application was filed and from that day until the day a decision is made with respect to the application, there is evidence that the sponsor is a sponsor as described in Section 130.

On the evidence submitted I am not satisfied that your sponsor intends to reside in Canada. I noted that your sponsor has been mostly living outside Canada since at least 2012. Your sponsor is self-employed and thus is not committed to reside in Canada due to his work obligations. According to your submission dated May 2014, your sponsor intends to move to Canada once you are granted a permanent resident visa. However, I am not satisfied that this is a sufficient evidence of his intention to relocate to Canada. You did not provide explanation from your sponsor regarding his intention to return to Canada as to why, when, where you plan to reside, how to support yourselves financially, etc. You did not provide any documentary evidence of any commitment with any third parties that would make your sponsor return to Canada, that of your sponsor's intention to relocate to Canada and that of steps you have undertaken to prepare your relocation. Accordingly he does not meet the requirements of subsection 130(2) of the Regulations. As a result, you do not meet the requirements of section 120 of the Regulations.

By this letter, you are given thirty (30) days in which to present any documentation that would address our concerns mentioned above. If we do not receive any documentation within 30 days of the date of this letter, your application will be assessed on the basis of the information already before the officer and could result in the refusal of your application.

All requested documents not originally in English or French must be accompanied by a notarized translation into English or French.

Yours truly,

Immigration Officer

At this point I really do not know what to do...

I was a non-resident living in different places around the world with my wife since 2008, with no income (just living off savings). I was approved as a sponsor with no issues. I did have letters from my father stating that we had accommodations and a job waiting for our return. I put the province and city where we planned to move on the forms. I also had a letter from my mom saying that she was eager to have me back in Canada and was excited to meet my wife etc. I ordered GCMS notes a few months in and it did say that the VO should look into my intent on returning. Shortly afterwards because of certain circumstances I came back to Canada before my wife got her COPR. I notified them right away that I was back in Canada and where I was living. I am not sure if you had sent in letters from family members in Canada like I had or not or if it would help at this point.

I think if the ONLY concern about your wife getting her PR is you coming to canada but if it were me, I would be buying a one way ticket to Canada in the province and city in which I plan to reside (preferably one with family or friends residing) ASAP. Then come to Canada, Lease an apartment or house to show that you have moved, get a provincial drivers license and healthcare set up and make sure they have the documentation ASAP. I believe that I had read that you are self employed and can work anywhere so having an income is not an issue, just showing ties to Canada and intent on living here.