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How can I prevent a marriage fraud from happening ?

cecil.b

Newbie
Aug 12, 2013
2
0
Here is my dilemna. A close friend of mine is trying to get a girl to come in Canada from Indonesia. He "met" her throught a friend of a friend, whose wife is from Indonesia. She is trying to get her whole family in Canada, but for some weird reason, they cannot sponsor them (the husband is filthy rich, but I believe it's dirty money and I know he has a criminal record...anyway, just to say, they are not people I would trust). She already had one sister come in Canada, by marrying a guy and divorcing him a year later. Last, my friend's friend, let's call him "Jack" asked him if he'd like to do 5000$ real quick, and have fun doing it. Of course my friend was curious about this offer. So Jack told him he would give his phone number to a friend of his, and that this guy could help him make the money. So my friend received this call from that guy that I'll call "Adam". Adam first asked my friend if he was married to someone, to which my friend said no (which is true). Adam them proceed to ask him if he'd like to be paid 5000$ to marry one of his wife's sister so she can emigrate to Canada. My friend, being the sweet naive thing that he his, agreed, thinking it was an easy way to make some money.

My friend came to me all happy about this unexpected money coming his way, and how it would help his ailling business (he was a bit tight since his business didn't worked as well as it used to be, and Jack knew this). I told him how it was a bad idea, and lectured him about all the trouble he could get into. He told Jack about this, and Jack reassured him that it was safe, and the only reason he didn't do it himself was because he was already married, and it would cost him more than 5000$ in alimony to his wife, so I wasn't worth it. After this, my friend became very defensive each time I tried to discuss the subject. One day, he snapped and told me I was lying to him, I was telling bulls**t because Adam told him everything was perfectly safe and that Adam knew what to do since he made such arrangement more than a dozen time. I decided to stay quiet and just observe how the situation was evolving. Maybe 6 month later, my friend receive a call from Adam, telling him the girl would come in Canada to visit her two sister and that he would arrange for the two of them to meet. So my friend went to their family dinner, where he was introduced to the girl, who I'll call "Ada". He later told me that he slept with Ada this night, because she told him to "try her" and "see if he'd like what would become his".

After that, she went back to indonesia, and they started sending emails to each others, and chatting on facebook. I was able to read some of those messages (my friend still believe there is nothing wrong with what he's doing). It's always my friend telling her how he miss her, and she only send generic "i miss u too" response. Now, he tells me he's in love with her, and he cannot wait to next december when she come to visit the country again. He wants her to come live here, he wants to bring her here. I told him he was getting cheated and manipulated by this girl and her family, and even his friend. The girl doesn't have any education, she barely speak english, she doesn't have a job (Jack gives money to everyone in the family and they live in apparent luxury. The girl's facebook show lots and lots picture of her shopping in expensives malls, buying expensive things, etc.) She told him she want kids with him, and that if they have kids, the Canadian governement will leave them alone and there won't be any danger of him getting persecuted. So now, my friend, who always stated that he didn't want to have kids is looking forward to have some with this girl he met once. From what I understand, their plan is that in December, they'll try to get her pregnant, and then he'll marry her and they'll live happily ever after... I tried to reasone him, to make him see how wrong it was, but now he tells me he's in love, and that Jack will give him the 5K$ in cash so the governement won't be able to know he was paid.

Sorry for the long post, but I love my friend dearly. He's a good guy, albeight a bit naive and too trusting. Right now he's in a rough spot, he had to close his business and now work at a minimum wage job. He doesn't own a house, he rents a bedroom in one of his coworker's house. I'm afraid the perspective of an easy 5000$ plus the belief that Ada is madly in love with him is stronger than any rational argument I can make. He helped me a lot when I needed it, and I can't let him be abused like this and do nothing, even if I know he'll be mad against me. Is there a way I can help prevent this from happening. I only found information about reporting citizenship fraud on the government website. Thanks in advance for your help everybody !
 

marsiangal

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Feb 15, 2013
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Med's Done....
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21-08-2013
My now husband's brother in law had a friend who was tricked as well by a girl from Thailand. He was like 40+ and the girl was in her early 20's.
He met her when he was on a business trip in Thailand and 6 months later he brought her here and they were married shortly after. Then obviously he sponsored her and they had a kid. Pretty much right after she got her PR. She asked for a divorce. And because she did not work they guy had to pay her alimony and monthly child support which of course pissed the guy off and told the story to my now brother in law. And right after that they started hating me and judging me cause they thought I was the same kind of woman. I hate how people looking to be fool other people make hard for people like me and my husband who have a genuine relationship be together.

Anyways I hate it when this happens there are a lot of red flags and I see your concern. I hope you are wrong but just in case let your friend watch this video about marriage fraud.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/protection/fraud/marriage.asp

I hope he wakes up and look for other ways to get her here besides spousal sponsorship. It's a big deal. He will be responsible for her for 3 years even if they broke up. Although now there are ways to relieve the "girl" of permanent residence status if she does not meet the guidelines. (the new conditional permanent residence guidelines.) look it up. This is to protect Canadians and PR from marriage fraud. HOWEVER there will be a problem to prove that if they have a child. That is why I think she is pushing him to have a child.
 

cecil.b

Newbie
Aug 12, 2013
2
0
Thanks for your reply. There is indeed a lot of red flags. I don't believe one second that she's genuinely in love with him. I tried to show the website to my friend, but he tells me that it won't happen to him, that she love him, that I'm being paranoid, etc. However, is there a way I can alert the authorities on this ? I'd like to be more proactive, short of kidnapping my friend and keeping him hidden for the whole December month ;D

Thanks
 

marsiangal

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Feb 15, 2013
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Vegreville
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Med's Done....
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LANDED..........
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LOL. Let's hope that is your last resort.
There is a report a fraud hotline on that website/link and you can probably call them and report it.
 

on-hold

Champion Member
Feb 6, 2010
1,120
131
marsiangal said:
My now husband's brother in law had a friend who was tricked as well by a girl from Thailand. He was like 40+ and the girl was in her early 20's.
He met her when he was on a business trip in Thailand and 6 months later he brought her here and they were married shortly after.

'Trick' might be true, but it's a harsh word as well. There are a lot of things that can happen here. When you date for 6 months, BOTH parties are basically saying 'it might work out.' She might have thought that as well as him; then it didn't work out, who knows why, but there are a lot of reasons that aren't the fault of just one.

Also, when a 40+ guy marries a young woman, he's probably tricking himself, on some level. No fool like an old fool . . .
 

marsiangal

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Feb 15, 2013
562
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Vegreville
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Med's Done....
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LANDED..........
21-08-2013
on-hold said:
'Trick' might be true, but it's a harsh word as well. There are a lot of things that can happen here. When you date for 6 months, BOTH parties are basically saying 'it might work out.' She might have thought that as well as him; then it didn't work out, who knows why, but there are a lot of reasons that aren't the fault of just one.

Also, when a 40+ guy marries a young woman, he's probably tricking himself, on some level. No fool like an old fool . . .
Understandable, I forgot to say that I am also from Asia that is why my brother in law thought I was the same. I feel like it is unfair that people with genuine relationship gets a bad reputation because of people with wrong intentions. Anyways, after their divorce was finalized, she admitted that she just used that guy to get PR in Canada. I do not know the scenario, maybe she was trying to hurt him more. but still what she did I think was wrong.

And lol. you are probably right, He was probably fooling himself to think that this girl actually loved him. I don't know blinded by love? or youth of the girl. I don't know. but I wish people would be more careful.
 

on-hold

Champion Member
Feb 6, 2010
1,120
131
I agree with you as well, basically. I'm married to a Thai woman, and don't like the reputation that sticks to them. My wife is a nurse, but I try not to explain that as 'justifying' our marriage -- because peasant women and sex workers have a right to get married too, and to get divorced if they want. Everyone's trying to get by, and in Thailand it is normal to get married quickly; the man pays a dowry for the wife to keep if it doesn't work out, and the stereotype of the passive Asian wife is exactly 100% wrong. A lot of quick marriages fall apart when the guy suddenly figures out that his wife expects to control the house, money, and private decisions.

I also find it irritating how other men, most of whom I don't like very much, assume that because they and I both married Thai women, we're blood brothers in a special club.
 

gongdi

Star Member
Jan 14, 2013
166
14
The more I read, the more I realize how common these scams are in Canada. The problem is that Canada has a worldwide reputation for being too soft on immigration. Canada sells itself short by advertising this reputation. On Chinese websites, there are pop up ads everywhere for buying your way into Canada, much moreso than the US or Australia. As a Canadian, it is embarrassing!!! It's almost as though our country is for sale. I do wish our standards could be raised so to attract the best people, and not be the last resort to those who couldn't enter the US or UK.

Of course most spousal sponsorships are legit, problem is, all relationships involved become suspect. Those real relationships must be strong, as even in politically correct Canada, people will likely judge you once you tell them your "how we met" story.
 

cranberries

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Apr 16, 2012
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cecil.b said:
Here is my dilemna. A close friend of mine is trying to get a girl to come in Canada from Indonesia. He "met" her throught a friend of a friend, whose wife is from Indonesia. She is trying to get her whole family in Canada, but for some weird reason, they cannot sponsor them (the husband is filthy rich, but I believe it's dirty money and I know he has a criminal record...anyway, just to say, they are not people I would trust). She already had one sister come in Canada, by marrying a guy and divorcing him a year later. Last, my friend's friend, let's call him "Jack" asked him if he'd like to do 5000$ real quick, and have fun doing it. Of course my friend was curious about this offer. So Jack told him he would give his phone number to a friend of his, and that this guy could help him make the money. So my friend received this call from that guy that I'll call "Adam". Adam first asked my friend if he was married to someone, to which my friend said no (which is true). Adam them proceed to ask him if he'd like to be paid 5000$ to marry one of his wife's sister so she can emigrate to Canada. My friend, being the sweet naive thing that he his, agreed, thinking it was an
easy way to make some money.

My friend came to me all happy about this unexpected money coming his way, and how it would help his ailling business (he was a bit tight since his business didn't worked as well as it used to be, and Jack knew this). I told him how it was a bad idea, and lectured him about all the trouble he could get into. He told Jack about this, and Jack reassured him that it was safe, and the only reason he didn't do it himself was because he was already married, and it would cost him more than 5000$ in alimony to his wife, so I wasn't worth it. After this, my friend became very defensive each time I tried to discuss the subject. One day, he snapped and told me I was lying to him, I was telling bulls**t because Adam told him everything was perfectly safe and that Adam knew what to do since he made such arrangement more than a dozen time. I decided to stay quiet and just observe how the situation was evolving. Maybe 6 month later, my friend receive a call from Adam, telling him the girl would come in Canada to visit her two sister and that he would arrange for the two of them to meet. So my friend went to their family dinner, where he was introduced to the girl, who I'll call "Ada". He later told me that he slept with Ada this night, because she told him to "try her" and "see if he'd like what would become his".

After that, she went back to indonesia, and they started sending emails to each others, and chatting on facebook. I was able to read some of those messages (my friend still believe there is nothing wrong with what he's doing). It's always my friend telling her how he miss her, and she only send generic "i miss u too" response. Now, he tells me he's in love with her, and he cannot wait to next december when she come to visit the country again. He wants her to come live here, he wants to bring her here. I told him he was getting cheated and manipulated by this girl and her family, and even his friend. The girl doesn't have any education, she barely speak english, she doesn't have a job (Jack gives money to everyone in the family and they live in apparent luxury. The girl's facebook show lots and lots picture of her shopping in expensives malls, buying expensive things, etc.) She told him she want kids with him, and that if they have kids, the Canadian governement will leave them alone and there won't be any danger of him getting persecuted. So now, my friend, who always stated that he didn't want to have kids is looking forward to have some with this girl he met once. From what I understand, their plan is that in December, they'll try to get her pregnant, and then he'll marry her and they'll live happily ever after... I tried to reasone him, to make him see how wrong it was, but now he tells me he's in love, and that Jack will give him the 5K$ in cash so the governement won't be able to know he was paid.

Sorry for the long post, but I love my friend dearly. He's a good guy, albeight a bit naive and too trusting. Right now he's in a rough spot, he had to close his business and now work at a minimum wage job. He doesn't own a house, he rents a bedroom in one of his coworker's house. I'm afraid the perspective of an easy 5000$ plus the belief that Ada is madly in love with him is stronger than any rational argument I can make. He helped me a lot when I needed it, and I can't let him be abused like this and do nothing, even if I know he'll be mad against me. Is there a way I can help prevent this from happening. I only found information about reporting citizenship fraud on the government website. Thanks in advance for your help everybody !
wow! my husband and i only dated for a short period of time, but our relationship is genuine. I have never dreamt in my wildest dream that I will be ending up with a Canadian man (eh!). jk.

It can happen that the girl fell in love with your friend during those months, but there is also a very big possibility that she is just using him. Apart from informing him about the marriage fraud and telling him about all the things he could get himself into(broken heart and broken bank), there is really nothing else you can do. Yes you can report this to the authorities but you might cause more harm than help. you never know, the girl might have really fell in love with him. then you'll never forgive your self for the rest of your life.

You can just hope that the visa officer who will be reviewing their papers will see that this relationship is not genuine (if it is really not genuine). if he doesn't get her pregnant, she cannot ask for divorce within 3 years. in my opinion, you can only do so much in this case.for sure there is a nagging thought in his head too about her just using him, but at the end of the day it is still his choice if he wants to risk or not.
 

scylla

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To answer your original question, your options are:

1) Convince your friend this relationship isn't what he thinks it is.
2) Once the PR application is filed, report the fraud using the link below. For CIC to take any action, you'll have to supply evidence that provides this is a marriage of convenience.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/protection/fraud/report.asp
 

CanadianJeepGuy

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Your friend is screwed.
 

Rob_TO

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marsiangal said:
Although now there are ways to relieve the "girl" of permanent residence status if she does not meet the guidelines. (the new conditional permanent residence guidelines.) look it up. This is to protect Canadians and PR from marriage fraud. HOWEVER there will be a problem to prove that if they have a child. That is why I think she is pushing him to have a child.
Even with no child, there is still a problem. This new law does not apply to new PRs that separate from their sponsor's due to abuse. And the kind of people that will pay cash to immigrate to Canada, will probably also have no problem reporting the sponsor (your friend) to the police for some kind of abuse shortly after they arrive (even though your friend didn't do anything). The police tend to give the "victim" in these cases the benefit of the doubt every single time. Even though no cases have yet been heard with the new conditional PR rules, I have no doubt people that want to split from their fake marriages asap after arriving will use this as a loophole, causing any money they may have made in agreeing to the fake marriage quickly disappearing in legal fees defending themselves.
 

Alurra71

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on-hold said:
Also, when a 40+ guy marries a young woman, he's probably tricking himself, on some level. No fool like an old fool . . .
My husband will be 65 on January 21st this coming year. I am due to be 42 in about 6 weeks.

While I usually don't take umbrage at statements regarding our age difference, I think it is also fair to say that not ALL younger woman are in it with older men because of what they can provide for us.

I like to think that not everyone automatically jumps to conclusions about why two folks with such an age difference would marry.

Let me put this in the most simplest of terms. When I look at my husband I don't see him as a nearly 65 year old man. I look at him and I see my soul mate, the man I love more than life itself, the most handsome man I've ever set eyes on ...

I could go on with a list as long as my arm, but I won't bother. I'll leave it at I love that man far more than I've loved anyone in my life!

Anyway, sorry to highjack the thread.

To the OP. If you TRULY feel that your friend is being 'tricked' into doing this because of a marriage of convenience, then it all you can do is wait and watch to see what happens. Love can be a very powerful 'drug' to someone who is really in need of it. But the NRE (new relationship energy) won't be there forever and when it clears, he may be able to see it for what it is.

The other posters are correct. There is not much you can do to stop it. Just be patient and understanding of your friend and be there when/if he needs it.

In the mean time, I would think there has got to be some kind of authority you can speak to about the original family that is asking this of others. There are laws against paying someone for a MOC for immigration purposes. Find that authority and report "Adam" for is misdeeds before more folks get dragged into the same situation as your friend.
 

keesio

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The OP's friend is a sucker. And for 5K? If she goes on govt assistance, he can be on the hook for that money, may turn out to be more than the 5K he got.
 

on-hold

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Feb 6, 2010
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Alurra, I apologize as well -- I was really referring more to this pattern in Thailand, where it is very, very, VERY common, and combines with total cultural misunderstanding, inability of either party to speak the other's language, and a number of other red flags. I lived there for a long enough time that it became my frame of reference, even though we're in Canada now.